Should you be worried..................I would be

[h0ughy]

the US government is unbeleivable, sorry not a political statement but truth. please look at the attached PDF document then make your own minds up.:(


Who is up for a game of worlds domination.....................:doh :

[h0ughy]

I should point out here that this new policy uses more powerful language that the previous version drafted unther the Clinton Administration, and that the language used is such to assert that the US can defend its spacecraft and other assets by force, ie shoot to kill.

[JimmyH155]

Well thats powerful stuff allright from Uncle Sam... Looks like a complete takeover of all things space, and anybody getting in the way, watch out. Announcing a complete control of nuclear stuff in space is really scary. As for intelligence and spy in the sky things, well they plan on doing exactly what they want when they want. What about Google Earth? - Oh it's American anyway I guess.:sadeyes:

[CoombellKid]

LOL, no more than what you would have expected.

regards,CS sunny days

Rob

[ballaratdragons]

I cannot believe what I am reading in that document!!!
They are openly stating that they are the Space Police!

It is full of hypocrisy.

It starts with the good side:

The United States is committed to the exploration of space and use of outer space by all nations;

The United States considers space systems to have the rights of passage through and operations in space without interference with its space systems as an infringement of its rights;

and the rest of section 2.

Then they do a complete 'about face' and prove they are the Space Police:

Deny freedom of action to adversaries;
Sustain U.S. advantage;
U.S. will take the leadership role in International fora;
Global commercial ventures must meet U.S. government requirements;
The United States is to be the regulatory body and licencing authority for Global enterprise;
and on it goes . . .

That is only up to page 7!!!!!

In other words, they are in charge of ANY and ALL space ventures by any nation or private enterprise.

Sheeesh! talk about space dictatorship. :mad2:

Freedom for all in space . . . their way!!!

[hogly52]

Are we allowed to look up, point a scope skywards or even use a laser pointer????? :shrug: :screwy:

And which international body gave approval to it? :screwy:

Graeme

[JimmyH155]

Good point, Hogly55. I can see the day when they spot our scopes pointing towards them (forget ever looking at the ISS or shuttles - that will be classed as spying or intelligence gathering ) Then we will get a bill through the internet demanding licence fees depending on our aperture:D Seeing as they are the only ones to have put a flag on the Moon, I expect it is only a matter of time before they claim it as the next US State:scared:

[casstony]

I wouldn't worry too much. This is just par for the course for the current loony regime in charge of the U.S. American voters will change things for the better before these policies are put into practice.

[netwolf]

Welcome to the brave new world, with big brother watching us.
Perhaps this is to do with the reported interference of China with one of the US's spy sats. Apparently a ground based laser was used to disable it somehow.

[jase]

Its all good. :lol:

I like the point:
"Enable unhindered U.S. operations in and through space to defend our interests there;"

Hmmm. I can only assume that there is a lot of defending to do considering the size of "space".

Another policy they could add: If all the people on US Death Row were to become astronauts on the cosmic frontier. We could possibly accelerate our migration to Mars. As harsh as it sounds, these people are going to die anyway, so why not die doing a good cause in space exploration. Bugger the monkey and other animals, send the bad people. The only downside I see to this concept is when we finally get to Mars, it will be over ran by drug barons and crime.
Food for thought.
:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Yes, and notice it was a U.S. flag! Not an Earth flag.

What was that bit in the document: The United States rejects any claims to sovereignty by any nation over outer space or celestial bodies, or any portion thereof;

So that means when the U.S. sets up a Moon or Mars Base, legally (by their own words) it ain't theirs and can't keep any other nation from entering it as it can't be U.S. land or territory.

Riiiiiight. :rolleyes:

[h0ughy]

see it is full of very interesting stuff isn't it fellas. What worries me is that the Chinese and the Russians and the EU all have their own versions obviously. So that means russia owns venus, they landed there first and technically the russians also landedon the moon first too, and they had a flag in with the probe that was sent to the surface. They have explored on the ground more than the US, though not setting foot there or driving around on it. so lets divvy up the rest of the solar system......and this spiral arm we are in, then the nearby arms. Call to arms, whats our gov doing about it, nothing, and the rest of the world, nothing really they cant afford to get there. so is it finders keepers......but we do have the better half of the universe to look at................

[Ric]

Geez, what an atitude. no wonder half the world has a beef with them.
I suppose there is consolation in the fact that these wally's only get one or two terms and then they are out on their ears and hopefully someone better will come along

One can only hope

[gaa_ian]

Star Trek it is not !
To boldly go where we want, and you cant go unless we say so !

[nightsky]

G'Day
I really hope that happens, then again they have said that about "GST never never little Jonny", but he has got in each time with a landslide,even though his nose is dark brown from sucking up to the "Yanks" and all the changes he has done,selling off most of this countries assets.now he's even talking about making our public hospitals "private" Before we know we will be just like the US.

[CoombellKid]

The thing about superpowers, like the Romans, Incas, Ottermans,
English and who ever else before them is, they never last forever.
They will come crumbling down eventually just like this one will
and the next and so on and so on.

I believe the current administration was/is able to put the willies up
middle America, where there is more seats to be won and less well
informed people. The types that gennerally go along with whatever
the current Admin says regardless, and they'll shoot you for saying
anything different or un-patriotic. Just look at the ratbags they're
using for grunts. Mostly kids with no better way out of their poverty
stricken lives but join the army.

Rob

[Blue Fire]

Oh, for goodness sakes! Do any of you Really think the U.S. is a threat to you in any way, shape or form?? Can you really be serious talking about being worried the U.S. is going to worry about any of your telescopes????? Get real, please. The U.S. and Australia have been friends for some time and I see no reason that it won't continue to be that way. And guess what, take a look at any major country's official documents that mention defense. I'd bet you'd find strong language that could easily be misinterpreted and blown way out of proportion like what seems to be happening here. Yes, you've guessed by now that I'm a U.S. citizen. So maybe I'm biased, although I don't agree with all of it's policies on Earth. We've never been bent on world domination - if we had, we'd control most of the planet by now,... we've had the opportunities you know! And I just can't see where is the U.S. is intending the doom and gloom dictatorial administration of Space that some of you seem to be worried about.

Sorry, but the OP mentioned "not a political statement",... it sure looks like it has been made into one now, and a paranoid one at that.

I love this place, my country, this Earth, this forum, Australia, and astronomy. I'm not trying to make enemies here - I just think we all ought to get back to the astronomy we love here and wait for dark, clear skies instead of jumping off the deep end and running for cover in fear of our scopes?

Okay, I'm done ranting now. Thanks for considering the other point of view!

[Dennis]

I suggest that this is not a realistic statement - just look at Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, or indeed any country that has been invaded. People do not take kindly to being controlled by any foreign entity. Therefore, these statements are often seen as somewhat arrogant, bullying and inflammatory. Unfortunately, to those who live outside the US, statements like this contribute to the perception that the US is more of a bully than a global peacekeeper.

Regards

Dennis

[CoombellKid]

I tend to agree with Dennis, if you cant control which appear on face value
fairly primative armies and insurgencies compared with the technology being
thrown at them. How would you ever think you would have ever had any
opportunities of controling the rest.

regards,CS sunny days

Rob

[slice of heaven]

:shrug: What's the problem with that document ? :shrug:

I didn't see one mention of world, or should I say Space domination.
Where does it say that?:shrug:
They want to maintain their right to peacefully and without disruption explore and further develop space using commercial,private and govt resources.:thumbsup:
They have the right to defend their assets on Earth or in space from attack. :thumbsup:

I don't see a problem with any of the document, .

[h0ughy]

:rofl: :rofl: at last a sensible statement:P

to our US friend, your not the problem, the document is. But that's just my viewpoint and each person has their own informed opinions. Sorry but there was a spoof movie out recently that had characters similar to the thunderbirds that had thing on osama and the US being the world police. very funny but unfortunately very true in meaning too:whistle: We have followed suit.:help: anyway mods if this thread get heated or off the track lock it;)

[Dennis]

The only problem I find with this, and similar documents, be they American, Australian, Chinese, European or Russian, is that the benefits promised by the lofty principles have not yet been realised right here, on planet Earth, by any Nation. What chance have we in space?

Regards

Dennis

[Blue Fire]

It is a Very realistic statement! History is not comprised of just the last 10, 20, or 50 years. The U.S. didn't take over Japan, Germany, Russia, or any number of other countries that it had the opportunity to. Instead, it spent billions of dollars helping them rebuild - I don't believe the U.S. has ever been repaid even a penny by any of them! Is it Your perception that the U.S. is a bully? Do perceptions equal truth? Do you really think that the U.S. will conquer and control Afganistan permanently in the end. How about Iraq? Do you really think Saddam should have stayed in power?

Again, I'm not in favor of all my country's policies. But you know what? I once got tired of being slapped around when I was a skinny kid of 11 years by a bully. I took him on finally and won. From then on I refused to let unjustices go by the wayside. There's a certain mindset you get when just when you think you are secure, somebody flies airplanes into buildings with devasting results. From then on, you just don't want to tolerate anybody that even seems like a threat.

Man, I really hate to bother defending my country. But maybe I shouldn't care so much. On the other hand, I wonder if Australia was being criticized harshly in another forum - how would you react? In the end though, there seems to be much hypocrisy whenever a natural disaster happens in another country - The U.S. is well known for running to people's aid when this happens. I just think that folks have a skewed perspective about the whole of things. And notice that I am not criticizing Australia - I refuse to do so. I respect the Australian forum I am on. Is this matter really that important to Australians? I was once welcomed here on this forum, and assume that I still am. But, Gosh, one document folks, with language you don't agree with. Fine, but going off the deep end and concluding that the U.S. is engaged in some evil design to control all of space at the expense of the rest of the world is just ludicrous! And a waste of time, I guess - so I'll just let it go here and now. Can you?

[acropolite]

I don't believe there is any need to defend your country. Australians have a habit of questioning governments, particularly the current US and Australian administrations. That doesn't mean we dislike your country, or it's people. 9/11 and in our case the bali bombings are the result of many complex factors, government policies including greed, corruption, fanaticism and just plain stupidity. IMO it pays to have a healthy scepticism when it comes to our Governments, their actions and policies aren't always in our best interest. So the moral is, don't be offended, simply examine the facts presented and make your own conclusions.
Please keep the debate civil or we will have to close the thread.

[Dennis]

Hello Blue Star

I am not criticisng America - I am questioning the validity of your statement about "taking over". Americans would not tolerate being "taken over" so why should anyone else?

I respect your patriotism and your right to defend your country. However, I still believe that it was an unrealistic statement to make, that any one country could "take over" large parts of the world. And yes, such statements from citizens of a country do unfortunately have the consequence of making that country look like a bully. Is the statement that dissimilar from the verbal acts you may have been subjected to, from the person who once bullied you? However, good on you for standing up to them.

I also understand that when Country, Family, football team, etc are being questioned, that people leap to their defence and discussion can get heated, so we need to be careful. I have tried to exercise that care and it appears that I have failed and for this I aoplogise.

I hope you continue to feel welcome here for nothing you have said has made you unwelcome in my book.

Regards

Dennis

[nightsky]

G'Day, IMHO what the Yanks have been doing since 1946 is what the British,France etc: done with gun boats (taking over countries) the yanks are doing it with money, also don't ever forget 1975 here in OZ.

[Blue Fire]

Thanks,... Cheers!

[h0ughy]

OK I think a fair point has been made by everyone concerned. Lets all sit on the naughty chair and get back to our part of the cosmos, and explore it for free...................

[slice of heaven]

Seems like I was the only one that read it in it's true context.

It's a US National directive. It refers to the US space program only. If you (country, commercial enterprise or private sector) want to use US facilities and programs you abide by their regulations.
I'll ask again where's the problem there?:shrug:
Where does it mention they will be the total dominators of space:shrug:
Unless your someone with less than peacefull intentions, then you might have some concern with that directive.

To Blue Fire

of cutting down tall poppies, the US it appears is always seen to be the tallest.

[iceman]

This thread has gone on long enough - everyone has had their say and as always, people can easily get offended by something read out of context, misinterpreted, or use threads like this to simply take pot shots at an easy target.

We respect our American friends on this forum, as well as those from every other part of the world.