Buy/sell astro data

[codemonkey]

For a while now I've been thinking about creating a new site, one for astro imagers to buy and sell their data. It occurs to me that there's many reasons why us imagers might buy someone else's data:


We can't physically access a target of interest due to our location
We want to add to own our data to make something cleaner/deeper
We don't have the necessary equipment for optimal results (e.g. only a dSLR and we want narrowband)


On the flip side of it, being able to sell your data at a price you nominate seems like a good way for us imagers to finally get back a little pocket money to go towards the never-ending stream of must have equipment and software.

To keep this running and to justify the the effort, the idea is that for each sale we'll take a cut, and I'd like to be up front about that as there's usually a lot of backlash when a site starts off with a free model and goes paid. This is going to cost a lot of money to run if it's successful, and require a lot of effort.

I've teamed up with another developer and we hope to deliver a minimum viable product in the coming few months. We'll be looking for beta testers as we get closer to the date and if you're interested in being one, please drop me a PM or reply here.

All feedback is very welcome, so if you have some thoughts on it, feel free to let us know.

[RickS]

Hi Lee,

Are you just going to act as an arms-length middleman and merely clip the ticket on the way through, or are you going to participate in the transaction and deal with any disputes between buyer and seller, provide guarantees on quality, impose rules about intellectual property, etc?

The technical problems may be the easy ones, as is often the case ;)

Cheers,
Rick.

[codemonkey]

Hi Rick,

Good question! I think the key here is to ensure the buyer knows what they are buying before they click the button. This can be done via the provision of metrics and by actually seeing the data. I intend to initially depend on a honesty system for the metrics and data previews, but will also include a kind of reputation system so that people that might think to mislead others will have nowhere to hide, and anyone flagrantly abusing the system will be permanently banned from the site.

Since we'll be hosting the data and delivering it to the buyer, there's no risk of non-delivery.

Given the above and some finer details of the purchasing system, the site will be very safe and I envision very few issues requiring arbitration. Should that be required, I'm happy to provide it.

As for intellectual property, the initial idea is to allow sellers to license the use of the data for different use cases, possibly charging different amounts for the different use cases.

Protection of intellectual property beyond that would have to be a matter for the courts. Of course, on the other side, if people were to try to sell data that is not their own, there will be a process in place where a take-down request can be submitted/actioned.

Cheers,
Lee

[LewisM]

Just my own sensibilities, but I wouldn't feel honest buying data. Plus, it would never be "My" image, even if added to my data, so unfortunately that puts me out.

Good luck with it. Good idea, but not everyone's taste.

[codemonkey]

Thanks for the feedback Lewis, appreciate it! I feel the same to a certain extent; I'd be more likely to use other data to enhance my own.

[Slawomir]

I believe there is future in an extensive global repository of astronomical data, not only for pretty pictures that we all love so much, but perhaps one day someone could find ways of utilising such data for more scientific purposes for the benefit of humanity :question:

Maybe including tutorials on data processing and a place where data could be "donated" and thus be free to use, could potentially help to increase traffic?

As for buying data, well, robotic networks are getting more popular, where one has no opportunity to tweak the gear but simply just clicks a few buttons and a telescope on the opposite side of the world does the rest. I did not like such experience, but there are many who do use robotic networks regularly.

[sjastro]

Given that professional data is available for free from organizations such as ESO (http://www.eso.org/public/), I doubt users would like to pay for the privilege.
I have access to their raw image, spectroscopy, interferometry, polarimetry and coronagraphy data mainly from their VLT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope) and La Silla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope) observatories.

I've processed a couple of ESO images which has been sent back to them for comments. It gives the opportunity for amateurs and professionals to compare notes.

I haven't used the facilities much as I am much more interested in processing my own data from my tiny 0.25 metre telescope as opposed to someone else's data with the 4 X 8.2 metre VLT.:)
Besides it practically requires a PhD to understand and successfully navigate through the enormous database to find what you are looking for.:shrug:

Regards

Steven

[codemonkey]

Thanks for your input, S :-)

The thought of an extensive global repository for use by science as well as amateurs was actually one of the thoughts that led me to the proposed idea.

Tutorials on data processing would be an excellent resource, good thinking!

I actually had thought to store the data for free and try to find another way to to pay the bills and make it worth my while, but I've been unable to come up with a model that I think will work better. The costs involved in storing and distributing all of this data will be very high.

The increased use of robotic networks was yet another thought behind this. The point of difference here is that you could see the data before you buy it, so you know what you're getting, and you can get it now. I'd also like to think it'd be a lot cheaper, although I'm disinclined to dictate prices; I'd rather let the community decide what things are worth.

In time maybe you could get 100hrs of data on a subject of interest with a click of a button, enabling us to produce insanely deep images that we just don't have the time or equipment to get individually.

Thanks again,
Lee



Very good points, Steven, thanks for your contribution; hard to beat the ESO and HST!

There'd be a couple of points of difference here, which users might find attractive. One is as you say, those interfaces are very difficult to deal with. I gave up trying to use the ESO archive very quickly.

The other issue is licensing. The idea for my proposed site is that people could sell their data under different licensing terms, whereas the hubble/est is only available under the Creative Commons license, I believe.

Whether or not this is enough for people to use a service such as the one I propose... I'm honestly not sure.

Thanks again everyone!

[LewisM]

What it truly boils down to is the fact that if I did not create the data, I did not create the image. What I process from there is no longer mine.

Astronomical imaging to me is about the journey - acquisition, trials and tribulations etc. It is definitely not so much about the finished product. I can wait 20 years to fill in gaps.

I can understand to a degree other people's stance though.