IC 5332 The Galactic Corsage

[strongmanmike]

Not a regularly imaged galaxy, IC 5332 is a somewhat tenuous spiral galaxy with a very low surface brightness of just 23.8 mag/squ arc sec, making it a challenging target with elusive features that are hard to reveal well. Dark skies and some decent exposure are necessary for a good result and this may explain its relative obscurity, despite it's subtle beauty.

Despite one clouded hickup one night (grumble, grumble hurumff), I enjoyed some good clear dark skies over the past New Moon week and this was collected over three of them and as usual, although somewhat variable, the seeing was relatively stable and I discarded not one single sub :D

Regarding it's low surface brightness, in comparison, the notoriously low surface brightness galaxy in Pavo, NGC 6744, is over a magnitude brighter per squ arc sec!

IC5332 in Sculptor (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/161585660/original)

Mike

[RickS]

Not many images of this one around, unsurprisingly Mike. It's an interesting galaxy but I think the plethora of funky small galaxies are the highlight for me. Lovely work!

Cheers,
Rick.

[pvelez]

Thats a tough target Mike - very well done. Colour is king for me and I love the magenta in the spiral arms

Pete

[Stevec35]

Nicely done Mike. I imaged this one myself a long time ago and I know it's a difficult target so you've done well. I would possibly tone the saturation down a bit though as there's some colour noise creeping in.

Cheers

Steve

[Placidus]

An involuntary "WOW" escaped.

In addition to the exquisite detail in the main target, the extreme faintness of the main target means that the distant galaxies are very prominent and add a lot.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[codemonkey]

That's awesome, Mike. Lots of cool little fuzzies in that one! Nice work.

[Atmos]

That looks like such an interesting target... Would love to see some Ha on that if you please :P haha

[strongmanmike]

Thanks heaps Pete as pointed out by Steve below, there was a little colour noise but I have just removed as much as I can :thumbsup:



Thanks Steve and yes it is really faint this one. Thanks for pointing out the residual colour noise too, I had removed much of it but you were quite right some remained, I have now manually gone and removed as much as I can without affecting the many small HII regions :thumbsup: ...after zooming in it was indeed quite difficult to tell the noise from real detail, particularly there are a lot of HII regions...so I did my best referring to the Ha only data.



Cheers M&T, I really like this galaxy and the only other time I imaged it, waaaay back when, with my old LX200, it was next to impossible to render anything worthwhile...times they have'a changed ;)



Cheers Man :thumbsup:



Well, arhem, as per the image credits :whistle:..there is 2hrs worth in there already Col ;) just to enhance the HII regions a tad :thumbsup:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Rick :thumbsup: T'is funny how when one spends some time working on something that they used to think was a bit ? lack luster?...feelings can change :D I now think this is one of my favourite galaxy images I have done, I really like the subtlety of the delicate arms and the tight spiral detail in the core and it really reminded me of a delicate corsage :love: :)

Mike

[Atmos]

My bad! Guess I should have paid more attention to the credits and not spent so much time gliding through the image haha :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Meah, t'is ok dude, I'll forgive ya, you are not the only one who doesn't read image credits :doh:...or heck, the bloody post even :rolleyes: :lol:

It's a fast pace life we live :thumbsup:

Mike

[DJT]

One of those images where you don't quite know where to look first, so much going on.

Do you look at the huge amount of star forming stuff in the arms? the arms themselves drawing you to the outer edges where there is some disorder of some sort which is pretty neat? and of the course the number of background galaxies splattered all over the place which as was said earlier have come out well.

Nice image!

[alpal]

Hi Mike,
that's a beautiful galaxy.
I'd love to image that one but at Mag 10.6 - it's just too faint.
I don't know how you do it!

cheers
Allan

[strongmanmike]

Thnaks for haveing a good look Dave and glad you enjoyed it :thumbsup:



Thanks Al :thumbsup:

I plug away like the rest of us really, I have some reasonably capable gear that just works :shrug: with relatively little input and that helps a lot, the rest is good old fashioned imaging with very little automation and just making a hobby of it, you know?...just sitting by the river with a rod and the right bait in the water while sipping a cold beer on a deck chair on the bank and enjoying our Universe overhead :)

Mike

[RobF]

Nice one Mike. Our galactic education continues - another one from the road less travelled. And definitely lots of faint fuzzies to enjoy besides the main show.

[marc4darkskies]

Nice one Mike - great to see something different too. :thumbsup: I guess targets like this are where F3.8 really shines eh? 17 hours is practically mega data territory for you - well done!

Cheers, Marcus

[Slawomir]

That's a horrible image of a beautiful galaxy...just kidding :lol:

Splendid work Mike, I really like how you maintained pleasant star colours while gently brining our attention to the main object by skilfully highlighting structures within the galaxy... :painting:

[gregbradley]

Nice image Mike. You got some nice colour there as well. I imaged this one recently as well. Both our setups are uniquely able to image these faint ones and bring them out. The Ha has added some nice colour there. I should do that myself whilst its still around.

Its a bit like NGC1232 this one and certainly one of the few side on spirals in the Southern Hemisphere.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Rob, as I said it is a challenging target, soooo would have been muuuch easier to have a shot aaaat saaay NGC 253? But been there done that...although I will probably do it again someday :D



Thanks Marcus, he, he, yeah 17hrs is just 20min short of my longest exposure ever with the AG12 :D...didn't realise how close I was to that figure actually, should'a gone another 25min, just to break my record :doh: :)



Yeah sorry to have made a corsage out of a very faint clump of weeds Slaw, I'll try harder next time :P :thumbsup:



Cheers Greg, yes when I look at your result and compare I can't help but think that you really need to move that amazing observatory of yours to Bigga mate and remote it, go on....;) Of course, err?.. I haven't done it soooo I can't talk, huh? :question: :doh:



Yeah I guess, a bit, although 1232 has a prominent central bar like NGC 6744's and well defined thin arms and is significantly brighter at 22.6 mag/squ arc sec....oh and don't forget that faint Sidonio jet! (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/153087957/original) :D :lol:

I think you meant "face on spirals" too..?

Mike

[plantnerd]

That is an exceptionally attractive spiral so tight and swirly in the middle and a splendid image of it

[topheart]

Top notch Mike!

Very good (if challenging) choice of target!

Cheers,
Tim

[E_ri_k]

Looks great Mike, very colourful. Loads of interesting background galaxies also.
Erik

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Luis and Timbo, I agree and apart from the challenge to try and show some good details in the sprawling super faint arms right to the edge of the galaxy, the tight central spiral structure was something that attracted me too :)



Thanks Erik, gotta have some colour in this game, the more the better :D

And yes having those little distant background galaxies is always a scale setter :thumbsup:

Mike

[Shiraz]

Hmm, what to say??.. exquisite beauty, a very interesting field and technically impressive, that ought to do for starters. Up there with your very best Mike :thumbsup::thumbsup: regards Ray.

[strongmanmike]

Well, nice words Ray :) Hey, it's no NGC 253/300 crowd pleaser but I'm glad you enjoyed the view none the less mate :cheers:

Mike
PS. I do like NGC 253 and NGC 300...aand The Eta Carina Neb, aaaand M42 etc truly, particularly if they are good'uns :thumbsup:...actually, come to think of it, there haven't been the usual number of Helix's posted this year, huh? :question:

[TR]

Excellent image Mike. I really like the tight spiral structure of this galaxy. I would take my hat off to you, but I have misplaced it.... ;) As always, excellent processing throughout the image.

T

[SimmoW]

Wow, glad Terry resurrected this thread, glad I didn't miss this wonerful deep shot! Certainly looks faint, judging by the background. And I love all the photo bombing galaxies

[strongmanmike]

Sheesh aaalways losing something aren't ya :rolleyes: just don't lose your mind, this imaging game can do this to you if you are not careful :P

Thanks Terry, I agree that tight spiral in the core is quite cool :thumbsup:



Cheers Simon, glad you liked it :D

Mike

[LucasB]

Great image Mike. It has inspired me to get back into imaging smaller targets with my longer focal length scope.
Lucas

[strongmanmike]

That's cool to know Lucas :thumbsup: but just for the record, my scope is only 1120mm FL :)

Mike

[LucasB]

I probably should have said image scale as you still get great resolution on the smaller targets at with your arcsec/pixel sampling even though you are at 1120mm. When I run the reducer my FL is just over 1300mm
Lucas

[strongmanmike]

Yeah, cheers, quite right image scale is the final gauge.

Two questions to ponder:

Given identical atmospheric conditions

1) Will an image show higher resolution (ie. actual separable details/features in the object) using 1120mm FL and a 4.5 micron pixel camera or 2240mm FL and a 9 micron pixel camera?

2) As far as resultant effects of errors on the image resolution is concerned, is tracking any more difficult to tame in one of the two outfits detailed above?

Mike

[LucasB]

You have hit the nail on the head there. It's exactly what I have been thinking about. If I bin 2x2 to get 9 micron pixels at 2000mm focal length with my conditions, I don't lose any resolution but I gain sensitivity. Very important at a slow F8. Great for really small targets. Just gotta make sure guiding is still up to scratch though at the longer FL as you say.
Lucas

[strongmanmike]

Ok, assuming the use of the same mount and hence identical tracking/guiding error capabilities, how is this going to affect either of the two systems I described any differently...? ;)

Mike

[Fabiomax]

Hi Mike,

Spectacular! I think they are also interesting objects around, a whole series of weak galaxy, think ten times more distant of IC5332!

[LucasB]

I am not sure whether it does. I guess the longer FL system will be the same as a cropped shot from the shorter FL system. When you bin 2x2 are you over coming the shot noise better? When I was reading Ron Wodaski's astro processing book there was a chapter that spoke of when you bin 2x2 you may pick up details you don't see at bin 1x1 due to overcoming the read noise or effectively increasing s/n ratio. If you don't lose any resolution as in the two systems described could be a worth going for longer FL at 2x2.
Lucas

[Andy01]

Wonderful clean image Mike, beautifully captured and processed - straight to the pool room with that one. :thumbsup:

Also, a reminder of why I don't do RGB. RGB images are really hard to get right! When done as well as this one they are beautiful indeed, and it's real craftsmanship that's on show here. :bowdown:

PS: As has been mentioned already - I too love all the little galaxies on parade here.

[Leonardo70]

Incredible Galaxy ... wonderful Image ..

All the best,
Leo

[strongmanmike]

Grazie Fabio



Well, you could have something there Lucas but sounds like a maybe in theory but perhaps not too obvious under normal conditions..?

My thought experiment was just to throw it out there for others to think about it, as lots of imagers just kinda follow what seems to be said around the traps without really understanding if the logic is even valid and can think they must need a certain configuration...but for no good reason :)

To make it even more interesting... here's another one to ponder:

Is it better to extend a short FL fast system or reduce a long FL slow one...aaah?? ;)

Hmm? perhaps should have posted this thread in a thread, in the astroimaging discussions area :question:



Hmmm, I am a little confused by your post Andy :confuse3:..do I read between the lines that you like this image :shrug: :nerd:

Thanks mate, nice to hear :lol:



Salute Leo :cheers:...I put a bit of colour in there just for you :D

[marco]

Ohh Yess, like somebody else already said this is (another) spectacular image Mike, surprised too that there are not too many images around of this one but it looks a not-so-easy object to do..
Great processing mate, love it!
Ciao
Marco

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Marco :thumbsup: It is quite faint so I guess hard to get a spectacular image to appear but something about it appeals, especially the tightly wound spiral core :)

Mike

[Bassnut]

Very cool Mike, lots of hrs, a grand effort. The 2 hrs of Ha nicely bought up the nebs.

[nandopg]

Hi Mike,
Wow, a Hubble like image. That is a spectacular galaxy view, with a no less spectacular background crowded with distant galaxies.

That is the kind of image to be looked at for a long time, and then looked again and again....

Thanks for sharing this so special image.
Fernando

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Fred, 17hrs is a marathon for me these days but with 12" at F3.8 and a sensitive little camera it can do ok :)



Glad you enjoyed the view Fernando, nice comments like this make the trouble we go to worthwhile :thumbsup:

Mike

[madbadgalaxyman]

Mr Sidonio, hello there,
madbadgalaxyman here, calling in briefly, for "just one brief landing in astro-land only"......as I am reading nothing but geology and microbiology and soil science.
(madbadgalaxyman mainly studies the dirt, these days!!)

The arms of this galaxy are very LSB, so very very good work by you with your excellent image of a very tough target.

This system is "two galaxies in one", due to its dual spiral structure:

(1) a long and very-symmetric spiral arm pattern , very smooth textured, made up of mainly old stars.

(2) onto the "very old and well-behaved spiral pattern" is superposed a very chaotic, and nearly random, spiral structure of OB stars and HII regions

This galaxy is a brilliant illustration of that dichotomy of spiral structure which exists to some extent in all spiral galaxies;

.......the "old stellar backbone" of a spiral galaxy is subject to a coordinated & long wave of increased density, leading to long and symmetric spiral arms in the mass-dominant distribution of the galaxy's old stars.....

.........while - in contrast - the young material in a spiral galaxy, that is, the dense gas and the recent star formation and the OB stars and HII regions, may (though does not have to) display a completely different and much much more Chaotic spiral pattern, due to the effects of what is known as propagating "stochastic" star formation.

Best regards,
Robert

[madbadgalaxyman]

Hello again, Mike and friends,

Check out the pattern of the HII regions.....it traces a completely different pattern than the smooth tight arms.

I wrote the following about IC 5332 in this (edited) email to my favourite professional astronomer:
______________________________

It is likely that this is one of those sub-luminous spiral galaxies
that are about a magnitude or two down on the luminosity of the Milky
Way. It has a low surface brightness, and the contrast of the spiral
structure is low when it is imaged in the optical regime.

The first thing that strikes my eye is the long, small pitch angle,
yellow, smooth-armed spiral pattern in the central region of this
galaxy, which (perhaps) looks like one of the "old stellar spirals" of
the sort that I have been reading about in a series of papers (by you,
David Block, Puerari, Kenneth C. Freeman, etc).......
except that this smooth & long & two-armed pattern is plainly visible
in the optical regime and does not require NIR imaging to "dig it out"
from the confusion of OB stars and dust and other extreme Population I
material.

I have read some of those papers by you and your co-workers on the
"duality" or "dichotomy" of spiral structure in galaxies;
so perhaps, in itself, the symmetric two-armed spiral pattern in the
old stellar disk of IC 5332 is not so remarkable.....though I am
struck by the remarkable length and regularity of the smooth spiral
pattern, and by its low contrast. There does not seem to be any
evident star formation associated with this inner spiral, so perhaps
it is caused by a weak density wave.

But I did get a bit of shock when I compared an optical image of this galaxy with the GALEX image (in FUV and NUV bandpasses) of this galaxy that I accessed using the GalexView interface.

(( authors note: GALEX far-ultraviolet images emphasize nearly-exclusively the very-young stars in a galaxy;
namely, the hot blue overluminous OB stars are shown, and everything else is de-emphasized in FUV images ))

Well, what a colossal contrast!!
This young material in this galaxy has a completely different spiral
pattern. It looks like a very rough and entropic multiple-armed
pattern.
The contrast between the entropic spiral pattern of this young
Population I material and the well-behaved spiral pattern of the old
yellow-colored spiral is incredibly pronounced in this galaxy.
One might conceivably classify this galaxy as an Sa/Sd, in the spirit
of some of Alan Sandage's type assignments in the Carnegie Atlas where
he was unable to assign to a galaxy a single unique Hubble class, and
was therefore forced to classify a specific galaxy as "either this
Hubble type or that Hubble type, or perhaps both types at the same
time".

In summary, from what I have been reading of your work and that of
Block & Puerari etc., it would seem that this is not an entirely
unexpected morphology;
but what a brilliant illustration of the completely different
behaviour of the Population I spiral and the Population II spiral.

While the morphology of IC 5332 is not completely unique, it is
certainly distinctive and I personally have not seen other galaxies
that look just like this one.

________________________

I have the galex FUV image showing the raggedy spiral pattern in the young stars, and also an 8 micron Spitzer image showing the smooth long old spiral.......so I shall display them in this thread when I access another computer.

Cheers, Robert

[madbadgalaxyman]

Here is a visible light image, showing the smooth and tightly-wound arm pattern of older stars:
196620

Here is a GALEX ultraviolet (FUV channel plus NUV channel) image, showing the chaotic open multiple-arm spiral pattern in the distribution of the hot young luminous OB stars:
196621

[madbadgalaxyman]

Here are two more "pretty pictures" of IC 5332 to illustrate the gigantic difference between its smooth two-armed Tightly Wound spiral structure, and its very chaotic multiple-armed spiral which is much more open
(a more open spiral structure has a greater 'pitch angle' , in the language of professional astronomy)

Firstly, here is an image by the Gemini South Telescope, showing the smooth tightly-wound symmetric spiral at impressively high angular resolution.
(image was Winner of the 2013 Gemini School Astronomy Contest. Credit: Travis Rector and Australian Gemini Office)
196642


Now here is an H-alpha image from the SINGG survey (image in Ha line ONLY, as the stellar continuum light has been subtracted out beforehand)
196643

[deeplook]

Hello Michael,

there is nothing more to say than "wow" for me, just amazing how you managed to colourise this faint beauty so well! :2thumbs:

Markus

[strongmanmike]

Cheers heaps Markus :thumbsup:

Mike