Beginner Needs Help

[HAL2001]

Hi all,

After reading lots of info and advise we are trying to find out what will suit our needs best and would appreciate some expert input.

My wife wants to explore the moon and planets whereas I want to observe the stars as well without going into photography.

I realise that aperture is the most important aspect of the scope but I am in two minds about:
a) getting a refracting scope or a cassegrain.
b) which cassegrain (SCT or MAK) is the preferred option .
c) which brand to go for or avoid.

Hope these details will help give us some advise.

Thanks and regards
Henri

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Henri,

Dollar-wise you should be able to get a much large diameter SCT/Mak than a Refractor.

Length-wise (for transport etc) you will get a much shorter scope with an SCT/Mak than a Refractor.

Colour Defraction-wise I will leave to the experts, but I think you would need to purchase an Apo or Semi-Apo Refractor ($$$) to match the SCT/Mak. :shrug:

I notice you are in Mentone. I lived upstairs of the Tattoo Studio that I worked in on the corner at the Mentone Intersection, opposite the Fire Station (one of Melbournes Brightest lit intersections) and yet I saw Halley's Comet from there!!! That tells how bright Halley was!

[[1ponders]]

:hi: Henri and :welcome: to the site.

Your certainly right that aperture rules, and for that matter alone I would not suggest a refractor. While a good 80 - 100 mm refractor can be an excellent scope, you just won't see as much as through a 200mm SCT/Mak or newtonian. So from that point of view, the refractor is out(for the time being :) ).

A few more details might help to point you in a definate direction.
1. budget
2. do you want a mount that will automatically track objects or would you be happy to track objects by hand
3. Do you want goto. ie tell the telescope what you want to see and let it find it for you.
4. What sort of transport do you have
5. How heavy an object do you think you could carry for short distances.
6. Do you have to go up or down stars

At the moment I'm thinking 8" or 10" Dobsonian ($500 - $700) for manual tracking with great light catching power for deepsky stuff and with a good barlow lens for planetary and moon viewing.

If your buy an SCT/Mak then you will need an equatorial mount, preferably with tracking. A 5" Mak (good for planets and moon but a bit limited for Deep sky) on an EQ3 mount (smallest I would recommend and even then a bit underdone IMO) with dual axis tracking will start from around $1250 and an 8" SCt (better for Deep Sky stuff while still good for planets and moon) will set you back from around $1500 with dual tracking mount.

If you are thinking about goto, add another $1500 - $200 for an improved mount and goto harware and software.

Just things to get you thinking.

Cheers

[cahullian]

Gee Paul who don't you just scare him off with a big stick. J/k
Sound advice.
For Moon, Planets and stars I think the refractor would be the go.
But what would I know I'm a dob owner myself:thumbsup:

Gazz

[[1ponders]]

Np Gazz, I have a bit of an Emerald Isle sense of humour at times me self, don'tcha know. ;)

[wavelandscott]

My first piece of advice is "get thee to a viewing night" so that you can look through other people's scopes.

If you have not yet done that please do this first so that you can gain an appreciation of what each type of scope can do. The best scope for you is the one that you will use...and what you will use might be different from me.

While we can all offer many words of advice and helpful information, I find "touching" real gear and watching it move and talking to the owners and looking through it myself to be of great help...

After you do that, then (and only then) you can go buy a Dobsonian reflector :P

Cheers!

[HAL2001]

Thanks for the welcome guys,

I appreciate all the comments and I'm glad to see that my line of thinkng (after a lot of reading of course) is close to the mark.

What worries me is that when I talk about getting a Cassegrain Scope there are a number of people who tell me emphatically not to get a Schmidt cassegrain.
Can anybody tell me why that might be and what is your opinion, and are there certain brands I should avoid???

I have been to the public evening at one of the societies but it happened to be too cloudy to see anything so I will be trying again soon.
I don't intend to buy until I know what I can see with the different scopes (kick a few tyres so to speak).

As for your questions Paul:

1. I haven't decided on a budget yet.
2. Auto tracking would be nice but I can still do it manually as well.
3. Would be nice but I would still want to learn to do it manually.
4. Transport should not be a problem.
5. I'm still fit enough to carry a fair load.
6. Luckily no stairs to climb.


Ken,

I remember the Tatto Studio well :) , I bet you miss living close to the sea though. Will check out your site as well.

Thanks again for taking the time to talk to me.

Regards
Henri

[ving]

any reason why you dont want a newt?

welcome aboard by the way :)

[[1ponders]]

Henri, I have an SCT, two refractors and use a Newtonian and enjoy using each of them. For portability and maximum magnification with good light gathering, then an SCT appeals to me. For widefield, stupendous viewing I like the shorter focal length newt, but they can hold their own for planetary viewing.

I'm definately leaning towards a Dob to get started, simply for bang for the buck and simplicity to get started. But having said that I've never owned a dob (though I do get to use one regularly).

Definately try to get to another viewing night.

[mickoking]

I too recomend a Dob because of value for money, Its simplicity (and after a little practice) ease of use and set up.

[HAL2001]

Hello again,

Micko & Ving,
The Dob could be an option down the track as an addition to the arsenal. It is also the size of the Dobs that will make it more difficult to take it places.

Paul,
I will try and attend some viewing nights to help make up my mind.

It's interesting though that I haven't had any comments from users about their good/bad experiences with either Schmidt or Maksutov cassgrains.

Look forward to more comments and advise.

Regards
Henri

[ving]

henri,
you would be suprised how little floor space a 8" dob takes up :) i can easily transport mine in the back of my astra too :)

[janoskiss]

I agree with Ving, 8" Dob is very easy to "throw" in the car and take for a drive. And quick to set up too. And as far as portability at home, the 8" f/6 Dob is a clear winner, especially when comparing similar aperture scopes. My 6" Mak is a minimum 2-trip job. The 8" is a grab-and-go (you need to add a couple of handles to the side panels of the base for this though).

Re Mak vs Schmidt, Maks tend to have longer focal lengths for given aperture, so they won't give you as wide a true field of view (magnify more for a given eyepiece). Smaller Maks without 2" focusers will be even more restrictive in this regard.

[[1ponders]]

Nothing wrong with a good SCT Henri. My little 8" meade SCT is a pearler. Great to look through, pick it up with one hand (well I do have a handle on the top). I used to an LX200 8" and I would still have it if I didn't want a different mount for imaging.

[Omaroo]

Hi Henri :)

I'm pretty new to all of this too. I opted for a schmidt-cassegrain first-up, and my 12" Meade LX200GPS has been phenomenal - and it'll let me grow into it for years to come. It's a little heavy to lug around - but I do - constantly. I'm not sure who would tell you "emphatically" not to get one..... I presume that they're attempting to "protect" you from having to collimate the scope periodically. Well - get yourself some Bobs Knobs (about $35) to replace the allen screws on the secondary and it's easy. I'd go another Meade or Celestron SCT any day - and am actively looking for an 8" at the right price to act as my field scope - at which stage I'll install the 12" permanently. Once the collimation is spot-on, it's able to see pretty-well anything you throw at it. Deep-sky to planets to the moon - it's all clear as a bell with a good eyepiece. Big SCT optics are fantastic.

Whichever way you go - have fun! I suppose that almost everyone will show their human nature and try to make you lean towards what they have - if for no other reason than to backup their own belief in their own purchasing decision.

[HAL2001]

Thanks guys,

Paul, I love the LITTLE (in: My little 8" meade SCT is a pearler). It would probably be the most I could hope to afford but then it will have to last me quite some time as well.

Chris, Yes I think the criticism were about the collimation problems people have with the SCT but I have heard someone mention the "knobs" to make it easier.
You are absolutely right about everybody pushing their favorite scope but it is also the best way to hear the different opinions.

Oh well, I'll make sure to get to a viewing night soon and let you know what I think about it.

In the mean time, HAPPY VIEWING

Henri

[janoskiss]

The 8" SCT might be little, but look at the mount Paul's got it on!! :scared: I'd guess a fork mount would be more suitable for what you want than an EQ.

[John K]

Welcome to ISS Henri,
all the advice that has been give to you so far is right on the mark.
As you have found, everyone has their favourites, and this is similar with other hobbies be it cars, boats, planes, cameras etc. and there is nothing wrong with that.
If you are new to astronomy my advice is to take the lowest risk approach and best value for money for the best celestial views. You simply will not be able to go wrong with a 8" to 10" Dobsonian. A telescope of this aperture is very simple, extremely easy to use, low maintainance and will provide years of enjoyment for planetary, lunar and deep sky observing. If you loose interest it will also will be a relatively easy telescope to sell. (Also you may consider getting a second hand telescope to start off with and get your "dream scope" later on). As you said in your thread aperture rules. Inch for inch reflectors provide the best value for money for any design. However a dobsonian will not look as "sexy" as an SCT or refractor in your home. If you already dont have a set of binoculars, also build this into your budget. Joining a local astronomy club also can help as you can view through the club's instruments before dishing out your cash.
Good luck and let us know how you go.

[Omaroo]

Henri - just one other. One reason I went for the SCT was that it comes with an Autostar-driven GOTO alt-azimuth mount - which I could at least understand basic up-down-left-right celestial mechanics on first-up. Until I get to know where things are - especially deep-sky Messier objects which don't exactly stand out and are hard to find - I use the GOTO to view things that I'd possibly never stumble across on my own. It's great to know that I'm slowly letting my scope teach me which way to point when I want to see something.

I have a permanent ground-based wedge that I have to pick up yet, but have so far resisted. I'll get to polar alignment soon......

[HAL2001]

Steve,
I agree that a fork mount would be all I need and I certainly don't see myself in the same league as Paul, though I do believe in buying something that will last for some time in the future.

John,
I can see where you're coming from and yes I have thought about 2nd-hand as an option just to find out if this is a hobby we want to pursue for more than half a dozen viewings a year.

Thanks and see you around
Henri

[74tuc]

Hi Henri,
Go for a nice dob of 8 to 10". The Meade (GS Optics) truss dob looks very nice. I hear that Andrews will be importing the GS truss dobs when the Meade agreement with GS runs out so if you wait you may get a terrific deal - that's what I'm waiting for!!

Clear Skies,

Jerry.

[HAL2001]

Hi Jerry,
Sounds like a good idea,though I'm not sure where to look for it right now.

b.t.w. Does anybody know if there are any disadvantages in using a truss dob, apart from regular colimation.

Regards
Henri

[ballaratdragons]

I did not mention a Dob once! :lol: Read below and check.

[ballaratdragons]

Henri, I do not own a Truss Dob, but 1 disadvantage I can think of is dust and muck getting on the mirror easily, but I haven't heard any truss owners complain of this yet, so it might not be too big a problem.

[Omaroo]

We're kind of in the same boat here - except for the photography. I'm glad we have GOTO though, as my wife would otherwise be bored stiff trying to find what she was looking for - and giving up. She loves looking through the catalogue and punching in her destination. She gets the wow factor without getting frustrated. The GOTO is basically keeping her interested in something that I am - and that's paramount.

A truss dob wouldn't make that easy for her......

...just a thought....

[HAL2001]

Thanks guys,

Raeding all this good advise is slowly shaping an idea of where I might be going - YES, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Chris,
My wife is very happy with the comments about how your wife gets maximum enjoyment out of stargazing.

Regards
Henri

[74tuc]

Hi Henri,

I do not own a dob but I am considering buying a dob because they are so easy to use and so simple. The truss dob appeals to me because it can be easily dismantled and "carted around". Yes I imagine dust could be a problem with the mirror open and near to the ground. The mirror may need cleaning from time to time - the joys of owning a telescope:) .

You mentioned collimation - all 'scopes require collimation it is just that some hold their collimation better than others. Fast newtonian 'scopes need to be checked on a regular basis. Refractors are most robust in this regard and SCT's seem to hold their collimation very well.

Setting-up in this game can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be, it is just that mistakes can get expensive. Once you buy the 'scope you may need (want ?) to buy some eyepieces then some filters perhaps a barlow lens ...

Good luck and please tell us about your experiences in using the new 'scope.

Clear skies,

Jerry.

PS.
When you get a new 'scope the weather clouds over for at least 3 to 4 days:D .

JRW.

[HAL2001]

Hi Jerry,

I figure that we will probably end up with a Dob sooner or later to complement whatever it is we get. It will also make it easier to have both of us viewing something at the same time :)

Yep, we will let you know when we have made up our mind and purchased something.

Regards
Henri