NBN and its new satellites

[pmrid]

Has anyone heard anything new about these 2 Ka-band satellites nbn Co is said to be launching "later in 2015 "?

As a non-metropolitan/rural resident we have had little choice about our internet access options. It's been satellite or nothing really. And 20GB of satellite costs about $60 a month, is slooooow as heck, doesn't work properly with VOIP and so on and so on. So I'm really interested in alternatives to the IPnet satellites if there is one.

Peter

[clive milne]

Peter,
I'm not sure there is much I can add.
I do know that there are limited numbers of connections available. We looked at it for our dark sky property and did not fit the criteria on account of there being Telstra 3G in the district even though the property is in somewhat of a blind spot of all the local towers (at ground level at least) I think the expectation is that we would have to put up a mast or apply for an exemption.
From memory, the speeds and data allowance made for a compelling argument for satellite NBN (if you can get it)

The limited number of connections that are on offer would prompt me to get in the queue sooner rather than later.

regards,
c

[gary]

Hi Peter,

Early this year it was announced that the ground stations in various
parts of the country had been completed.

Launching of the first satellite had been planned for June but Arianespace
could not find a second payload to share the rocket, so the launch date
had been postposed by them to October/November.

Service was expected to begin in 2016 and provide 25Mbps down and 5Mbps
up.

Clive - you will be referring to the current interim service which was
using the limited available capacity of the IPStar satellites that NBN was
renting bandwidth from before the long term broadband purpose-built Ka
band satellites are launched.

[clive milne]

Thanks for the clarification Gary,
would I be correct in assuming that once the Ka satellites become operational, the current restrictions to access will be lifted?

[astroron]

Hi Gary,I was wondering when the said satellites were coming on line.
I am in the same situation as Peter.
I look forward to the day when they come on line. :D
Thanks for the information. :thanx:
Cheers

[The_bluester]

Clive, once the NBN sats are up and commissioned, by my understanding it then goes to the commercial decision of NBN. If you are not feasible for whatever fixed line solution they apply in your area, you would get fixed wireless (Which I am on) if you can't get fixed wireless then you would be connected via satellite instead.

I don't know if the sat service will grow past 25/5 but the fixed wireless is currently in a trial of 50/20 speeds, with the vague nature of wireless meaning that anything above 25/5 is "Best effort" We are currently suffering some configuration issues that mean that our download has not increased at all but the upload has gone up to between 10 and 14mbps. Very handy when someone in the house does magazine work and semi regularly uploads very large files.

[gary]

Hi Clive,

I gather that is the intent. The new Ka band satellites are purpose built
for broadband delivery and have much higher capacity and speeds than
the interim satellites they have been leasing bandwidth from.

The demand for the interim service was larger than available bandwidth
so when the new Ka band satellites come online hopefully rural areas
will enjoy much faster speeds.

The plan is that leasing of the interim service will then end but I
understand that they have extended it to 2017 in case of delays.

One of the technicalities was negotiating with the Russians over the
140 degrees East Ka band orbital slot. The Russians had applied to the
ITU for the slot and their application was to service all parts of the Earth
viewable from that parking spot. They have since articulated that they
are only interested in servicing the Russian Federation but negotiations
with them in Geneva have apparently been trying to get them to formally
agree that the Ka band footprint would not extend into the southern
hemisphere over Australia where it might otherwise interfere.

[pmrid]

Strewth. In my simplistic way of looking at things, I would have thought they would have finalized that negotiation BEFORE spending money of these satellites if, as you say, they may not be able to secure exclusive Australia-wide access to it from the ITU.

But then that's just an old bloke's simple view of the world.

Peter

[The_bluester]

Apparently it is quite common around the world for satellites to be ordered before the orbital slot is approved.

I recall that one doing the rounds when the current government was in opposition. Used to indicate ineptness of the then government at the time, but not apparently much of a problem now.

[gary]

Hi Peter,

The negotiations are via the Australian Communications and Media
Authority (ACMA) who control radio spectrum bandwidth in Australia
and they in turn deal with the ITU.

At an Estimates hearing (http://www.zdnet.com/article/nbn-russian-ahead-with-satellites-despite-ongoing-slot-negotiations/), the general manager of ACMA, Giles Tanner,
advised that -



So it sounds as if you can build and launch a satellite faster than the
bureaucracy to negotiate with other players in getting a slot. At the end
of the day they haven't ruled out paying the Russian operator and the Russians
no doubt will simply make the commercial decision of whether they want
to service both the Russian Federation and Australia or whether they just
want some cash and point their antennas only to the northern hemisphere.

[clive milne]

They could just send Tony over their to 'shirt-front' the appropriate Russian official.

[pmrid]

And with a bit of luck, he won't come back.

Had a mate in Honk Kong once who went to Russia with a pile of US$ to try to buy a "friend "out of a nasty contract. Turned out the contract was with the mob. Neither he nor his "friend "were heard or seen again.

Not good folks to be doing business with.

Peter

[gary]

In an article that has appeared online this afternoon (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/nbns-sky-muster-satellite-gets-launch-date-20150813-giy5ec.html)in the Sydney
Morning Herald, Ben Grubb reports that "Sky Muster", the first of two
NBN long-term broadband satellites, will launch on October 1 2015.



Story here: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/nbns-sky-muster-satellite-gets-launch-date-20150813-giy5ec.html

[strongmanmike]

Incidentally Gary, my wife shares an office with one of the guys in the NBN Satellite architect team :D...she is not a techo though....

Mike

[gary]

Hi Mike,

Great stuff! :thumbsup:

It seems fitting that the young girl and her class mates who won
the naming competition are students of the School of the Air.

Back in the 70's I remember picking up School of the Air broadcasts
when they used HF radio. They were fascinating to eavesdrop on for
a few minutes and listening to the kids communicating from remote
parts of the outback acted as a reminder what a vast country we live
in.

With the limitations of the radio transmission quality forcing both the
teacher and students to speak more slowly than normal plus having
to say "over" at the end of every transmission, the rate of
communication was quite slow.

When you consider the improvements in educational material that
can be delivered to these kids with the bandwidth these new satellites
will provide, it gives reason for all Australians to feel proud.

Best Regards

Gary

[The_bluester]

Saw that write up yesterday just before seeing this thread come back alive. Great to finally see a prospective launch date, even better to see it this year, as little as a week ago people were talking about both going up next year.

Now I just wish they could get the rest of the damn think working properly, to my knowledge they have not really even gone beyond limited trials of the new FTTN product and I see all sorts of issues popping up. Like the fact that so far it does not appear that they can just kick off all other carriers from a node when they install one, so if people have a service with iinet (For instance) who happen to have a DSLAM in the exchange that node was connected to, it could be two years or so before all customers are in the "Get on the NBN infrastructure or loose service" basket.

The upshot of that is by what I have seen, the much vaunted savior of copper (Vectoring) will not be able to be switched on for up to a couple of years after a node is commissioned. That means that VDSL may well deliver slower speeds than those currently available to a lot of people for several years!

Pretty much says that it will not be until people are forced to change over that it will happen, who would want to drop from say 18mbps download rate to 12 for two years while waiting for the forced migration date to roll around to get "Foreign" services out of the copper bundle so vectoring can do it's thing?

[gregbradley]

That could be good for me if I want to use my dark site observatory for remote imaging. A good satellite internet is probably step 1.

Greg.

[The_bluester]

If you are properly remote then that would I assume be what you would get. Depends though, you might in in fixed wireless.

If things stay at least slightly true to the original concept the prices should all be about the same, and if Fixed wireless was available it is better for latency obviously.

[gary]

Hannah Francis, Technology Reporter at the Sydney Morning Herald,
reports today on Sky Muster.



Article here -
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/the-satellite-malcolm-turnbull-never-wanted-prepares-for-liftoff-20150825-gj7t3j.html

[pmrid]

This today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-22/skymuster-satellite-launch/6793720

Peter

[Paul Haese]

I am using NBN fixed wireless at my obs. Zero latency, download speeds of 42mbits a second, uploads speeds of 18mbits. Going from ADSL to NBN has been like step out of an old Vdub into a new Merc. If the satellites are anything like fixed wireless then people will not be dissatisfied.

[pmrid]

Well, we will know soon enough.

For me, I can't immediately see that I will gain anything much out of the increased speed. Perhaps a few milliseconds more to spend sipping Chandonnay or something similar.

Peter

[acropolite]

I doubt NBN satellite will be satisfactory with VOIP simply because the distances involved will mean long propogation delays, expect local conversations to be at best the same as talking with someone overseas.

[The_bluester]

Sort of unavoidable really, pesky speed of light. But what else to do? Having campaigned for years that the entire NBN concept was unneeded and wasteful it would have been politically impossible to do something more costly like increase the fixed wireless footprint and do away with the satellite service.

[pmrid]

Coverage of the launch is better on the Ariane site than the NBN which is a YouTube effort that presently seems to be unfocused and spinning around.
http://www.arianespace.tv/

Peter

[sheeny]

Originally I was on IPStar satellite. When the opportunity to get NBN Satellite came a along I jumped at it with the promise of faster speeds etc - and it delivered that too for a while.

About 12 months ago I complained about the speed on NBN satellite, and eventually got through to a straight talking fellow who explained that at that stage, NBN was leasing bandwidth for 40,000 customers on Optus's satellite. The catch was that at that stage they have subscribed 48,000 customers. No doubt they have continued to over subscribe, so that when their own satellite comes on line that can switch customers over and have the satellite well utilised. But it is frustrating to be on ATM.

I'm hopeful that I can get onto fixed wireless NBN, but failing that, bring on the new satellites I say.

Al.

[The_bluester]

By my understanding, the problem with the interim sat service is it simply suffered from higher demand than expected (Fancy that) and they have consumed every bit of bandwidth they could lay a contract on and then some.


On topic, Sky Muster was launched this morning, so hurdle 1 has been cleared, not being on top of a rocket which exploded on the pad or soon after launch!

[speach]

Just listening to the news it's just been launched

[gary]

Story and video here on ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-01/sky-muster-launches-amid-concerns-internet-speeds-overpromised/6817998

[gary]

Article and pictures here -
http://www.nbnco.com.au/blog/five-questions-with-nbns-satellite-program-director.html

[The_bluester]

Argh, even the ABC has lost the plot with regard to science and technology reporting!

Taken from a current news snippet.

"There was a small likelihood — estimated by one Federal Government MP as 4 per cent — that the satellite would have exploded on exit from Earth's atmosphere and the Government had taken out insurance in the event of a disaster."

Surely they mean "The carrier rocket may explode on launch"

And

"'The company said the newly launched satellite was already unfurling its solar panels and preparing to thrust into its "orbital slot" position before it begins rotating around Earth."

What is it doing now, sitting stationary? I would have known that one was wrong when I was ten!

[gary]

In an article in today's Sydney Morning Herald, Adam Turner reports
that ISP's will start signing up customers to Sky Muster in April/May 2016.

There will be a choice of 25/5 Mbps and 12/1 Mbps plans.

A second satellite will be launched later this year.

Between them they will replace the current Interim Satellite Service.

Article here -
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/gadgets-on-the-go/nbns-sky-muster-satellite-is-almost-ready-to-ride-20160203-gmkfwh.html

[Tinderboxsky]

Yes, we have been notified by our provider that they will be able to give us an instal timetable in March. It is getting close.

Steve

[sheeny]

Too late for me. I'm on fixed wireless NBN now and it's great. Makes more bandwidth for someone else.;)

Sounds like the new satellites should be the same speed as fixed wireless. That should be good if they don't over sell it.

Al.

[PCH]

The NBN guys are in our street now. As Big Kev used to say, "I'm excited!"

[The_bluester]

Unfortunately with FW it does seem to come with the caveat "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary)

Ours was brilliant to begin with but the advent of a 50/20 speed tier and the arrival of Netflix seems to have exposed a serious lack of backhaul in the FW network (And very slow response to the problem)

Our speeds routinely dip under 10meg download in peak times (And a lot of other people too) and we don't have the worst of it, one subscriber I know is seeing anywhere down to 1 meg at peak use times! The worst of it is it is really unpredictable, just checked mine and it is 18/13 down/up at the moment.

[gary]

In a 29th April 2016 article in the Sydney Morning Herald, Hannah Francis reports that
the Sky Muster satellite service has gone live.



http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/nbn-sky-muster-satellite-service-goes-live-20160429-gohzid.html

[w0mbat]

After being told of the SMH article I emailed my ISP (IPStar) yesterday to ask for details. No response yet.
Ian

[blindman]

According to some satelites does not exist.
Must admit I have NEVER seen ANY photo of satellite :-)

[JB80]

http://www.astrophoto.fr/satellites.html

[pmrid]

Well, "blindman" perhaps your nametag gives us a clue ;);):lol:
Peter

[w0mbat]

My ISP (IPStar) replied sending me the application forms. The great news is it is cheaper and better.
On interim NBN satellite we pay $49.95/month for 20GB anytime at (supposedly but rarely) 5Mb up 1Mb down.
With Sky Muster NBN we can get 30 GB peak plus 60 GB off peak at 25/5 Mb for $50
My forms are already filled in!
Ian

[blindman]

Maybe........

again maybe not

[blindman]

Not happy with dots! Satellites are supposed to have cameras, right?