projects I'm working on.

[AlexN]

Got a couple of projects I'm in the planning stages of that I'd like some input on from someone a little more knowledgeable than myself.

Firstly. I'm planning on building a farnsworth fusor for no reason other than to satisfy my own curiosity and because I like the idea of building a fusion reactor at home Even if it is sub-critical..

From what I can ascertain the hazards and resulting risks are mostly surrounding the extreme voltage requirement in the form of a 10kV transformer.

My question is do the charged/fused particles pose any risk? I won't be running the reactor for any serious length of time. Just long enough to view the star in a jar result should it work well.

I've also been planning a small sub atomic particle accelerator... Using a wine bottle as a vacuum chamber and just accelerating electrons using a cathode ray tube.


I'm not lead to believe there is too much risk involved in this one other than again, the use of a 10kV transformer and extracting a high voltage diode from a microwave oven. Again I know people here are far more intelligent than I am and I await input from others on these little weekend filler projects.


Thirdly, and far more hypothetical, could one take the fundamentals of a basic electron accelerator and build a garage sized accelerator? Perhaps aptly dubbed 'micro hadron collider'?


Looking forward to people's thoughts on these. Hoping that they are not too ambitious...


Also keen on any other home experiments people may feel like sharing.

[Eratosthenes]

Alex, some very ambitious home projects indeed. Are there any radiation issues with Farnsworth fusors when they are operating? Neutron release perhaps?

Have you checked out this web site? have you signed up as a Fusioneer yet?

The Open Source Fusor Research Consortium,

http://www.fusor.net/

[AlexN]

What I've read indicates that there is very little risk of neutron release at such low energies however articles I've read indicate that it is not impossible.. X-rays are the biggest concern. At 12,000v they will begin to breech the vacuum chamber viewing port and as such any observations will be made by means of a camera and mirrors.. The upside is that any radiation emissions are isotropic and as such the radiation drops by the square of the distance from the source, so at a few feet away there should be no dramas.

Obviously more research is needed prior to construction and power up. I will sign up as a fusioneer tomorrow.

Thanks Peter.

[Eratosthenes]

Alex,

my research thesis (a long time ago) involved electric field applications, but not high voltage - high Current DC electric fields. And it's the current that can be lethal.

Incidentally, what are the ions or atoms which will be fused together as they pass through the inner electrode screen/cage? This may help you determine what the by products will be.

I suppose fusion is a type of high energy Alchemy - maybe you could fire some Copper and Tin atoms in and get Gold out the other end;)

cheers

[AlexN]

Well basically what is inside the vacuum chamber when the power is turned on.. O2, N2, AR and H2O. The high voltage grids will hopefully ionze the particles and electrostatic forces should accelerate the ions towards the high negative charge in the center causing a multitude of collisions. At these low energies the best I could really hope for I think would be an intense glow in the center of the chamber however with more power the "star in a jar" phenomenon is pretty impressive..

Wrt the power and risks involved, the potential energy is definitely on the lethal side of the gauge however it is 10kV @ 2.6mA.. With a suitable protection circuit and a good deal of care I believe it can be done safely.

[Eratosthenes]

2.6 mA should only give you a tickle

It's a bit like static electricity which can reach tens of thousands of volts but has a tiny current. It's why a car battery can kill you at 12V DC (but potentially huge amperage) and static electricity can tingle at 50,000 V

I would still wear the safety gear though

...at those voltages, the few water molecules floating around in the vacuum should split, you may get ozone (O3) forming too. I wonder what would happen if you were able to displace the air and moisture with an inert gas such as Helium?

[AlexN]

That was the direction I intended to take the project once I got a positive result. I was going to evacuate the chamber with the vacuum pump then use a valve to seal the chamber then introduce helium Through a separate unidirectional fitting, obviously using a vacuum gauge to ensure the chamber is still void of enough. I'd also like to take it further again by flooding the chamber with helium and hydrogen to create a micro-sun in a jar.

[Eratosthenes]

Hydrogen?

any oxygen sneaking in and you know what will happen don't you Alex?

Recreating a solar core furnace requires a combination of temperature and pressure.

Although most people will remember to Cold Fusion experiments and published results several decades ago. Results which were never quite replicated.

Will you be measuring temperatures etc?

[AlexN]

I was wondering if this could be controlled immersed in oil so that if the vacuum chamber was to leaking would get oil rather than oxygen. I will be measuring temperatures my means of an ir thermometer. I have not figured any other way of putting a probe in the chamber that would not adversely affect the results.

I will post up a drawing or two later tonight of my chamber plans.

[Wavytone]

10kv is plenty lethal, a low current like 2.6mA does not change this.


Make sure someone is watching you who knows how to apply CPR, and make sure your life insurance is paid.

Also suggest you make a will and give your other half an EPA as well before you switch on.

[glend]

Just flood the chamber with argon, easily sourced from Bunnings in disposable bottles, and as its heavier than air will displace the air and flow out the top. Also Argon cannot transport water vapour. I second Wavy's safety recommendations. Suggest you advise your neighbors.

[Bassnut]

I got belted by 10kv DC, drew an arc 1 foot long and things got very strange very quickly. My arms thrashed around randomly totally out of control and when it all stopped I had no idea where I was or what I was doing there for a good 10mins. DC is far more dangerous as AC arcing tends to be self extinguishing. Be very careful. On the other hand, you can do some mad shiet with high voltage high amp DC. I made an electromagnetic gun with stored 1kv DC at 1kA (for milliseconds), shot bolts through walls. Also, feeding 10kv DC at some 5kA (with large stacked aluminium plate capacitors, easy to make) into a coil (very thick copper welding cable), you can create plasma balls. The coil instantly vaporises, but metallic stuff you put in the coil transforms in very interesting ways.

[multiweb]

Like being on stage back in the day, hey? \m/

[Bassnut]

hehe, exactly, I had enough of that too :P.

[AlexN]

I will definitely keep that in mind guys. Cheers.

[Eratosthenes]

1kV at 1kA??? even in bursts is a lot of power. 1MW to be precise

Nice transient Power station you set up there Bassnut

[Bassnut]

yeah that doesnt sound right does it :P. It was 1kv from very large electrolytics into a short circuit via a 2000 amp SCR basically. I couldnt actually measure the amps, cant be 1Ka, thats daft :shrug:

[Eratosthenes]

Did your system have a fuse or circuit breaker?

[RickS]

That's apparently the function of the "Fred" component :lol:

[AlexN]

Lol

[Eratosthenes]

AlexN,

I was looking at the concentric electrode geometry in a typical Fusor and the applied electric field is zero inside the inner electrode mesh cylinder - ie where the reactions occur.:question:

[bert]

I always wondered why your hair looked like it does.

;)

[Eratosthenes]

...still waiting for your design drawings and experimental plan.....I hope you are still with us Alex.....

[AlexN]

Definitely still here. It's going to take some time between two kids and 65hrs a week + at work I'm basically squeezing this and online university into my late nights and weekends.

[Eratosthenes]

...feeble excuses, Alex, you do realize that there are 168 hours in each and every week?
What are studying online if you don't mind me asking?

[AlexN]

I've just started again actually. Rebooting my brain with short course in applied mathematics then onto astronomy/astrophysics once I get my brain back into gear. I sort of, fell off the education bandwagon about 7 years ago. Feels good to be thinking again. And that beautiful feeling of being truly perplexed.. This is really the impetus behind my fusor project.

[Eratosthenes]

I gathered there must have been a link between the two (although there is a lot of physics and engineering involved in these "fusor" projects).

Education (whatever that may entail) tends to be a twin edged sword. One edge pushes you deeper towards discipline, conservative thought and rigidness whilst the other edge should open up the mind, and encourage creativity and questioning. (the latter heavily depends on the individual and to some extent on the teacher who can deliver lectures in an open and creative way or could also go the other way and hinder imagination and creative thought). Universities these days are often dictated to by Political and government ideologies, and contaminated by the corporate ethic of profit and power. Very sad to see fundamental research take a back seat these days, and research projects that potentially can deliver large profits for investors being favoured over other projects.

Anyway, over the past few years I have been experimenting with an old technology called "heat pipes" or thermal diodes - messing around with vacuums and the latent heat involved in the vaporisation/condensation process. Basically I have been trying to develop wickless heat pipe systems and moving away from standard tube geometries - panels and odd geometries so that efficiency and application can be enhanced

http://www.1-act.com/advanced-technologies/heat-pipes/#sthash.znzxz2cU.eHIs14rT.dpbs (http://http://www.1-act.com/advanced-technologies/heat-pipes/#sthash.znzxz2cU.eHIs14rT.dpbs)

[AlexN]

The big problem with online learning is it's all left to the individual.. Without your own sense of curiosity and your own motivation to apply what you learn in your own chosen way or to expand upon what you learnt and ask the how's and the why's then you will fall into that structured, disciplined, conservative learning style where by you can become what I call "text book smart" but you may never reach your real potential. I miss sitting in lectures, especially when your professor relished the opportunity to be challenged on an idea, or have other ideas brought to light to expand upon a discussion. Something sorely lacking from online learning.

[ChrisM]

Alex, some ambitious projects there!

You may get some ideas or further inspiration from the website of a guy in WA who loves playing with HV: http://tesladownunder.com/

And in relation to electrical safety, it's the volts that jolts, and the mills that kills. (that is 'mills' as in milliamps)

Chris