HEQ5 or NEQ6?

[codemonkey]

Now that I've decided to downsize everything, I'm wanting to confirm my mount selection. Basically tossing up between the HEQ5 Pro and the NEQ6.

The mount will be for imaging and I plan to put a ~120mm refractor on it. Three of the candidates are weighing in at: 5.4kg, 5.13kg, 4.4kg.

My imaging train weighs in at roughly 900g. I plan to use a mini guide scope that weighs in at 540g total.

So adding in a 1kg buffer in case of unknowns, I'm looking at up to 7.84kg. I've read that the HEQ5 will support payloads of anywhere between 13.7kg and 15kg, but obviously this isn't for imaging. I'll also likely put the mount head on a pier in the future, rather than using the tripod if that makes a difference.

Clearly the NEQ6 could handle this, but could the HEQ5? Seems like it should, but I also don't want to be pushing the boundaries to the point where I make my life significantly more difficult than in needs to be as the point of downsizing is to make my life easier and more enjoyable.

[RobF]

Both mounts very capable of doing what you want Lee.

Performance in the end likely to come down to a bit of "luck" as to quality of gears/worms in each. Ideally would be good to have knowledge before buying.

There is however still the risk if/when you want to "upsize" again you will end up above the HEQ5Pro payload limit of 10kg'ish? :)

[codemonkey]

That's what I thought; thanks Rob :-)

I've owned both an NEQ6 and an EQ8 recently and I've come to the conclusion that the local conditions just don't support the sampling I was attempting, so I don't think it's likely I'll want to upgrade again any time soon. I'm not interested in reflectors, and I think long focal lengths are wasted here so I'm likely to stay fairly light weight.

Only likely scenario is if I was to get one of the ~127mm triplets going around that weigh in a bit more, but I don't think I'm likely to go down that path and if I do it'll be very soon rather than a future upgrade.

[rmuhlack]

My 130mm f5 newtonian imaging rig (OTA + tube rings, losmandy dovetails, guide lens, imaging/guiding cameras, robofocus) would weigh in at close to 10kg, and I have this riding on a HEQ5. Mount seems to cope just fine, as shown with this recent image here: http://www.astrobin.com/153530/

[rmuhlack]

this is the equipment setup on the HEQ5: http://www.astrobin.com/113722/

[Slawomir]

Hi Lee. HEQ5 is a quite capable mount, at some point mine carried 102 mm ED doublet and 80mm triplet on top with a camera and motorised filter wheel (see the photo) and I was successfully imaging at about 1.5 arcseconds per pixel.

Nevertheless, it was the mount's upper limit, and for this very reason I upgraded to AZ-EQ6; the new mount has significantly smoother PE curve, but is also noticeably heavier.

If you are going to use the mount predominantly for imaging, I would recommend the bigger brother of the two.

[Ryderscope]

Hi Lee, my imaging train on the HEQ5Pro consisted of:
- Skywatcher 100mm F9 refractor
- Focal reducer
- Canon 60Da DSLR
- Orion 400mm guidescope
- Star shoot autoguider
The HEQ5 handled this quite well whilst it was getting towards the top end of what I would recommend for the load on this mount. I wouldn't go over a 10Kg payload on the HEQ5 for imaging. The other key issue of course is portability as the HEQ5 is a great performer whilst being easier to lug around when compared to the EQ6.

[whzzz28]

I had a HEQ5 with the following, it was over the limit just. When the scope made it to a certain apex it would crunch gears and slip due to weight.
My suggestion is to go with the NEQ6.

- Carbon fibre ED127
- ED80 guide scope + lodestar
- QHY9 camera

Could've made it work if i had a mini guider as the ED80 weighs a lot.

[LewisM]

The axiom for imaging weight limits is 3/4 the rated limit. Now that depends on what the manufacturer states - Chinese makes seem to list the weight limit as an absolute limit, whereas the Japanese manufacturer's apparently list the IMAGING weight as the limit. APPARENTLY (though having owned predominately Japanese mounts, I feel this is correct).

I use a Vixen SXD right now. It has a stated load rating at 15kg. I load it to 6.4kg, so no issues regardless. I can generally get 7 minute unguided with it quite easily (have not even tried it guided yet!). I ran a PEC run recently - 7 minutes - and using a 4mm reticle EP, did NOT touch the hand controller to make a correction even once. I find that impressive enough. Plus I can do as many alignment points as I like so I can refine pointing remarkably well - last time out, I ran 16 alignment points for just the N through SW sky.

I also ran a Vixen GPD2 for several years with a Sw Synscan GOTO kit. VERY accurate, trcked wonderfully well. THOROUGHLY recommend it for lighter rigs - it has a 10kg stated load. Unfortunately discontinued, so any would be old stock or second hand. VERY portable - one handed grab and go.

I have had both NEQ6's and HEQ5's. Each NEQ6 I had had issues - some major - 2 were second hand, 2 were new. Each HEQ5 I had were good (apart from 1 Dec motor failing after several months). I also had an AZ-EQ6, and apart from it's bulk (not just mass), I found it quite good - definitely a step above the NEQ6.

[codemonkey]

First off, thanks everyone for your experiences, I really appreciate it.



1.5"/px is exactly what I'll be sampling at with my planned top-end focal length. Was it this that caused you concern, or the overall weight?



10-11kg seems to come up fairly consistently for this mount in terms of imaging payload, which I'll be well below.

Good point about the weight of the mounts; the NEQ6 is fairly heavy, still what I'd consider portable though. Having said that, portability isn't an issue for me as I live in fairly dark skies and I won't be mobile, it'll always be used in my backyard, probably on a pier.



Ah, hmm, that's concerning. Even using an ED80 as a guide scope, the ES 127 CF only weighs 6.4kg so I'd be estimating you'd be just around the 10kg mark in total?



Thanks for your experiences Lewis. Unfortunately the SXD is out of my price range and I'm not sure where I'd find the GPD. Out of curiosity, are the Vixen mounts supported by EQMOD? I've never looked into them at all.

Interesting experiences with the HEQ5's and NEQ6! I'm actually a bit worried about buying mounts secondhand. I had been looking but I think I'll bite the bullet and go with brand new just in case; seems to be a lot of bad ones out there.

Looks like ultimately it's as I thought; the HEQ5 should handle what I plan on putting on it, but I wouldn't really want to put anything else on it. I tend to be very impulsive, so even though I don't think I'll be putting something heavier on it, there is a possibility. I suppose if a heavier 127mm triplet came up for sale at the right time I'd be unable to take the opportunity with the HEQ5.

Decisions, decisions. NEQ6 is available from my preferred supplier, HEQ5 is on order. $445 price difference....... hmmm!

Thanks everyone!

[codemonkey]

I guess the other option is the AZ-EQ5. Apparently the same payload (EQ) as the HEQ5, but is belt driven and has dual encoders enabling PPEC. Same price as the NEQ6. Would be worried about the PEC failing like it does on the EQ8 in EQMOD. Actually, wondering if EQMOD is even available for it yet...

[Slawomir]

It was more to do with the periodic error, although the total PA for my HEQ5 was quite low, but changes to it were sudden thus guiding required frequent corrections at 1.5 arcseconds per pixel.

As I mentioned before, I could notice a significantly smoother PA with AZ-EQ6 and when I transferred my rig from HEQ5, AZ-EQ6 shifted it around at ease comparing with HEQ5.

Moving from HEQ5 to AZ-EQ6 was a bit like changing from a small 1.5L car to Ford Falcon; it might not be the most sofisticated car out there but it makes for a smooth ride on a highway.

[Amaranthus]

The AZ-EQ6 really hits the price/weight/performance sweet spot. I'm regularly pleasantly surprised about just how well mine performs, with smooth tracking, low PE and coordination with EQMOD. Synta really nailed this one. It's so good in fact that I'm going to invest in an AZ-EQ5 soon, to support my lower weight imaging rigs, so I can image with 2 scopes at once.

[codemonkey]

Ok, thanks guys. I think I'm sold on the AZ-EQ5. I was thinking to belt mod the HEQ5 if I got one anyway, at least this way I'll maintain warranty. PPEC will be awesome too, once there's software support for it.

[Amaranthus]

This is interesting. I'd always assumed that PPEC was stored on, and initiated by, the Hand controller. So, if you were using EQMOD, via an EQDIRECT cable, you couldn't use the mount's PPEC.

But perhaps I'm wrong, and it's actually data stored in the Motor Control firmware (after training), in which case it would always be applied, irrespective of whether the HC was present or not. That would be useful. Does anyone know for sure?

[codemonkey]

I'd assumed that was the case too Barry, bad choice of words on my behalf. Once EQMOD has support for reading the encoder positions (assuming it doesn't already) it should be able to sync with a PEC curve and thus effectively achieve PPEC.

[Eden]

Hi there Barry,

A comprehensive answer to that can be found here:
EQMOD PEC (http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/docs/eqmod_vs-pec.pdf)

[Eden]

Hi there Lee,

Check out the EQMod Yahoo Group for information about AZ-EQ5 support. If it's not already supported you can be sure that it will be added in the near future, the AZ-EQ5 looks to be quite a popular platform. I think it's a good move for you if you're looking to simplify your setup. :thumbsup:

If you haven't done so already, check out the PEC documentation I linked for Barry, there's a lot of useful and perhaps not-so-obvious information in there about PEC and the EQMod implementation.

[Amaranthus]

Eden, I'm very familiar with VS-PEC (as you know from our PMs) but alas have has mixed success with it on the AZ-EQ6 (there is recent discussion on this on the EQMOD Yahoo group). This is a software PEC solution. Hence my looking for an alternative hardware option like the mount's PPEC. (The PDF you link to is not about PPEC.)

Further research tells me the PPEC data is indeed stored in the motor control firmware. What I'm not certain about is whether it is triggered without the Synscan controller being present.

[Eden]

I will PM you about this. I was under the impression that VS-PEC had worked for you, as it did for me. Although the PPEC data is stored in the motor controller firmware, it won't work without the Synscan hand controller because when Sidereal+PEC is enabled through EQMod, VS-PEC is used.

[codemonkey]

Thanks mate :-)

[Amaranthus]

Thanks Eden - the principle of VS-PEC is great, which is why I suggested it. But people are having problems getting it working on the AZ-EQ6 and EQ8 in practice - it keeps fighting guiding, as if the worm cycle length is incorrect. I've not yet had a chance to debug it. So if you've got yours working happily, I definitely want to know what settings you're using! :)

[AndrewJ]

Gday Barry

Re the EQ8 PEC cycle in EQMod, there was a discussion there last week where it was confirmed that the older motor cards were returning the wrong value for the no of microsteps per rev of the worm.
I dont know how this would work for PEC via the handbox itself, but it would appear that unless you use a manual override in EQMod, it will get the wrong period.
As to the AZ_EQ5 and PPEC, i would assume that the PEC model will actually be stored in the Hbx and a routine will be used to detect the PEC sensor ( similar to how the EQ8 detects its home sensor ).
If so, then it should be a simple exercise to detect and synch an external PEC model as well, but i'm pretty sure EQMod ( as it stands with its closed DLL ) wont know how to use the new commands.
I may buy one and see how it works, as i have been looking for a small dual scope alt az mount for solar and this new AZ_EQ5 looks to fill the spot perfectly.

Andrew

[Slawomir]

I had no success in using PEC with my HEQ5, both with hand controller and EQMod. I came to a conclusion that PE curves with my mount varied too much from each other consequently making my attempts to apply PEC curve unsuccesful.

[Amaranthus]

Have you got VS-AutoPEC working with your AZ-EQ6, Slawomir? I'm yet to find anyone who has, unless Eden is actually having success.

[Slawomir]

Have not tried recording and using PEC with AZ-EQ6 yet. It tracks well enough for me to shoot at 1.34 arcseconds per pixel with an auto guider (SSAG) sending corrections every 3 seconds or so. May try it out at a later stage though.