Andrews 20x80mm Binoculars

[Travesso]

Just a couple of quick questions from a self confessed noobie. Im ashamed to admit that I had a $2 Tasco telescope that has never seen anything other than the moon, and I think u can see it better with the naked eye. I was gonna get a new telescope but from what I've been reading a good set of binoculars are the go hey?

I was looking at a limit of about $200 and was considering the Andrews 20x80 Lightweight or 20x80 Triplet binocs. Does anybody know if the triplets are worth the extra dollars? I read the review of the 20x80LW binocs and they seem pretty promising. (I assume the AOE binocs are the same as the Andrews ones?)

Anyway, I have a fairly cheap aluminium/plastic camera tripod that I would use for the binoculars if I couldnt handhold them. It is fairly sturdy once u put a weight underneath it. Any guidance would be appreciated. So far I have a 7x50 fully coated hanimex pair that my grandfather bought in the 80s which arent too bad but I'd really like to see some nebulae (particularly the horsehead in orion, that thing has always amazed me!) Would 20x80 binocs on a tripod let me see nebulae? Sorry for the long post... I've been reading the forum for ages before posting hehe... cheers!

[iceman]

Most definitely! You'll be able to see most of the bright nebula, including Orion, Eta Carinae, Swan, Lagoon and Trifid, etc. They will also be amazing on star clusters and globs, such as NGC104 (47Tuc) and Omega Centauri.


:welcome: Great to see you signed up and said g'day!

[xelasnave]

I use only 20x magnification most of the time when viewing thru my 150 sn (reflector) so the mag is ok, triplets are the best, whether these tripplets are the best triplet is another matter but they are very good binos as people will jump in and tell you here..my next purchase is a pair so I am a believer.
Welcome hope you enjoy the experience
alex

[Lee]

Be careful with the tripod though - I have these binos, and a cheap tripod - the binos really are quite heavy, especially for a cheapo tripod, and although balance OK pointing level, when pointing high up, they really exert a good lever force on the tripod head - be careful they don't torque it off and crash on to the ground.....

Great binos though - you'll see heaps of stuff with them - they are too heavy to consider handholding, except for *quick* views of lower objects.... you will need physiotherapy on your neck if you try and handhold and grab a look at the lagoon nebula currently! ouch!

I've also got Andrews' 10*50 WP binos - they are exceptional too - better than my Pentax binos IMHO...... would also be a good place to start.....

[janoskiss]

Get the triplets, they have a flatter field so I'm told (sharper across the field). Tripod mounting binos for viewing much above the horizon gets tricky. A camera tripod is not good enough IMO, because you cannot get under the binos without suffering semi-permanent back/neck injury. In the very least you need to rig up Starkler style counterweighted parallelgram attachment for a stock mount (search Starkler's older posts for info/pics).

[rmcpb]

If you are even considering any time hand holding then these binos are not for you. They are simply too heavy and large to hold steady enough to use the 20x magnification.

If occasional hand holding is an important consideration have a thought for the 15x70 instead. You can hand hold these for short periods BUT a proper, strong parallelogram mount will be necessary for anything more than a quick peek. These will give great views of the moon, jupiters moons, the birgheter nebulae and clusters.

That said, when you have a proper mount then the 20x80 would be perfectly suited for deeper study of these objects.

[cahullian]

I also have heard good things about the triplets. On the horse head nebula "DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH" you will need a lot more than a pair of binos to see that sucker. Sorry if I have burst your bubble on that one.


Gazz

[janoskiss]

I missed that bit. Horsehead is a difficult object even in large scopes, so forget about it. The Great Orion Nebula will look fantastic though, as will many others.

[mickkk]

There are some good wooden and metal german tripods that are taller than most available I forget the brand. Lightweight aluminium ones I wouldnt risk with even cheap binos, too easy to knock over in the dark.

[Travesso]

Thanks guys! Wow, this has got to be the best forum I've ever seen, everyone is so willing to help!

I really appreciate all the info, I will probably end up with the 20x80 triplets just cuz I like to get the best I can for the money I have. As for a decent mount, I'll carefully try the camera tripod for a bit and if it really annoys me I'll see what I can do about a parallelogram arrangement. Considering these are intended to replace a 50mm Tasco piece of rubbish that moves when u exhale, it sounds like I might be up for some good experiences!

Im gonna go have a squiz with my old 7x50s tonight just to see whats about. About the Horsehead nebula, I thought that mighta been a pipedream hehe... I'd be stoked if I can see anything other than the moon to be honest guys! In particular I've never even seen saturn and it is one planet that has always amazed me!! :)

I saw a few holes in the clouds on the Gold Coast this arvo so I'll drive west a bit and see what I can see. Thanks again!

[johnno]

Hi Travesso,

Welcome to the best Astronomy forum,I also, have ever come across,INMHO.

There is a wealth of helpful friendly people here,who have vast experience,Far,Far,Greater than mine.

Although I have Telescopes, and Binoculars, I use Binoculars,for Astronomy far more than Telescopes.

I have the LW 20x80's from A.O.E, which would probably suit your tripod a little better than the Triplets,NOT because they are better,But because they are lighter.

I believe the triplets,are heavier than the LW's,and would need a more stable tripod,to give you stable views.(Most Important)

M42 in Orion is stunning,as is the Moon,Pleiades,Omega Centauri,and Many Other objects,and, especially,panning across the Milky way,Just Blows me away,Every time.

Bottom line,
There is a place for ANY,and EVERY, Viewing Instrument in Astronomy,
It Mainly comes down to Personal Choice.

I Personally like Binoculars,Because they give (Mostly),Wide views,which allow me to see a lot of Sky,and different objects, at the one time,although,not at high Magnification.

Just my take.

Regards.
John

[Travesso]

Ok, I got the Andrews 20x80 Triplets yesterday and went out last night for a drive to Tumbulgum for some darker skies. I could see jupiter and a couple of its moons early on, and I saw a NGC object (cant remember the number 6325 maybe??) that looked awespme, in scorpio. But one thing I'm wondering... Can you see nebula in colour (u know the cool coloured gaseous clouds)? Yesterday was fairly dark and clear but I couldnt see anything of any colour (other than white ;)) Any ideas?

[glenc]

Tripods are a pain.
I use a fold up banana lounge.
Rest your head and elbows and 20 times is fine.
Your biceps will get stronger with time.
All I need now is a system to rotate the lounge!
Maybe a BIG dob base.
The MW in Sgr was great last night with a 3.2 deg field.
Millions of stars.

[janoskiss]

You will see no colours in binos except on stars. Medium sized scopes show colour in some planetaries but not in other emission/reflection nebulae. Large to very large scopes show hint of colour in brightest emission nebulae (Orion, Eta Carina). Some can see colour in M42 in a 12", but I cannot.


I agree wholeheartedly. I use a recliner. It's okay handheld for 12x60. My biceps need work though... get tired pretty quickly.

[JimmyH155]

Travesso, that cluster you saw was my very favourite cluster - NGC 6231, and right overhead now. It's halfway along the scorpion's tail where it does a 90 degree turn. It's AWESOME. :D Move your binos and you will come across M7 a HUGE cluster which can be made out with naked eye. It has got hundreds of stars and all sorts of curves, twists and coloured bright stars. :) :thumbsup:

[Travesso]

Last night I went a bit further south west to darker skies and saw a bunch more stuff!! I saw the Lagoon nebula and the other nebula that is to the west of it (cant remember the name). I also saw the butterfly cluster purely by chance while scanning pretty quickly across the sky! There is another cluster pretty close by this area starts with P I think, cant remember but I saw it too. Actually last night I saw a whole heap of stuff, pretty stoked! I really need to do some work on a parallelogram mount tho, my neck is killing me during these sessions from a tripod! :S Youre right Jimmy, that NGC 6231 is really nice looking hey! :)

<Edit>
Turns out the P cluster is Ptolemys cluster (AKA M7) so it seems I already saw it Jimmy, I just didnt know! hehe... It didnt look too impressive tho, NGC 6231 is was cooler looking in my oh so humble opinion! :D

[GrahamL]

ngc 6453 is very close to m7 to .. don't know if you'll pick that one up though?

try downloading this each month theres around 25 or so bino objects
to hunt down
http://skymaps.com/

[jjjnettie]

Congratulations on your new purchase.
I've been umming and ahing about the exact same binos for a while now and your positive response is encouraging.
Unless someone has something positive to say about the 12-36 x 70 ZOOM binos that Andrews have for $99.
At Astrofest, I was shown a cheap alternative to a camera tripod for your binos. The tripod that surveyors use for their theodolites. They are very robust and cost about $80.

[janoskiss]

Stay away from zoom binos anywhere near that price. If you are buying binos from Andrews read/ask about specs carefully. "fully coated" and "fully multicoated" mean very different things in practice.

I would recommend buying from AOE (http://www.aoe.com.au) if you are after bang-for-buck binoculars.

[jjjnettie]

Thanks Mr Steve

[johnno]

Hi All,

Jeanette,

I totally agree with Steve,
Stay away from Zoom Binoculars,they are a nightmare.

A.O.E,at least check them before posting,and if you still have problems,they are really helpful,AND,they know a little about what they are talking about.

Regards.
John

[Travesso]

I was told by the lady at Andrews that they will check the colamination before sending my 20x80 triplets. They arrived with a sticker on them saying "Colaminated" and signed by someone. So Andrews seem to check their stock before sending too. I've used my binos 3 times now and no eyestrain, only neckstrain... ;) time for a parallelogram mount methinks...

[janoskiss]

The big binos are user collimatable anyway and AOE have detailed collimation instructions. If anyone is interested you can email AOE. They are very helpful and I'm sure they would send you the instructions no matter where you bought your binos.

[JimmyH155]

I've just done a calculation on the light gathering power of those 80mm nokkies - its HUGE - equivalent to a 4.5 inch scope:D Think I'll chuck away my scopes and just use the nokkies:lol: (Only joking:D )

[CoombellKid]

jjjnetie,

didn't you have a look through Houghy's 20x80 Triplet binocs that were
setup on a tripod next to his Meade up at Astrofest? they were quite nice.
Been thinking of getting a pair of them or a smaller hand hold-able Pentax's

regards,CS sunny days

Rob

[dhumpie]

Rob,

The 20x80's are a revelation. I have the 20x80LW version and they cannot be beat for wide field scanning of the milky way......and they gather so much more light than my Orion 80ST's.....

Darren

[glenc]

How many NGC deep sky objects (DSOs) can you see with 20x80 binoculars?
They should show most objects brighter than mag 10. They will show some DSOs to mag 11.

The count below is to mag 10 and does not include nebulae with no known magnitudes.
OC 276
GX 126
GC 93
PN 23
BN 21
Total 539

If you can find things with binoculars you don't need a GoTo scope.

[jjjnettie]

I'm kinda torn between buying a pair of big binos or a decent small refractor.
Something to take camping/travelling. Decisions decisions.

[glenc]

Try them both at a viewing night. I had a short tube 80mm refractor about 8 years ago and I prefer 80mm binoculars.

[janoskiss]

... or you could get a nice 5" Newt on a Vixen Porta mount like Geoff (Starkler) has got. :)

[jjjnettie]

A 5" newt is kinda hard to tuck into an overnight bag.:P

[janoskiss]

They are very compact. Comparable to an ED80 (fatter but about the same length). But in either case the mount is going to be much more tricky to fit in the overnight bag than the scope. :P With big binos the mount is going to be even more of an issue. Sturdy photo tripods are great for terrestrial use, but not much good for astronomy.

[jjjnettie]

Any observing aid that works best when you lie down on a comfy banana lounge sounds fine to me.
That make the 20x80 binos that much better than the refractor.

[janoskiss]

JJJ, you might like to consider the 15x70 MX Ultra bino from AOE. These are a new type of very high quality binocular coming out of China; same as the Astro-Physics 15x70, Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 and quite a few others. I received the 10x50 model last week. I am not really qualified to judge this glass because the quality is in every way, way *way* better than anything else I've used, including the 20x80 triplet. If you are interested, do ask AOE for the "real" price. ;)

http://www.aoe.com.au/15x70mx.html

Andrews have these binos too (millitary ultra), but AOE's knowledge of their products, support and after sales service has been so good IME that they've earned my loyalty, and I'd highly recommend buying from them. :)

[glenc]

20x80s will show more than 15x70s provided the quality is good.
I find the Andrews 20x80 triplets are very sharp.

[janoskiss]

True Glen. But I think 15x would probably be my limit for hand-holdability even when lying down. I'm not very good at holding binos steady. :(

[CoombellKid]

Last last week I doderised my newt, after near 5yrs standing at an EQ
mount something using the aid of the back of a chair to lean on. I've finally
discovered sit down astronomy!!!:ashamed: and I'm a liken it!!!:) a whole lot!!!:D

...and to boot the mod allows me to quickly change back if I ever feel
like planetary imaging again. The EQ5 is a dedicated PST mount now.

regards

Rob

PS: As of today, I have two sons :D

[dhumpie]

Congrats Rob!!!!!!!!! Anyway back to the topic, I agree with Glenn as I find I grab my 20x80LW's a whole lot more than my Orion 80ST. They are just so easy to use and they really go deep if you have a dark enough sky. And some of the larger globs resolve too from such sites!

Darren

p/s; that is unless you are talking about premium APO short tube refractors, now those are in another class altogether.

[jjjnettie]

That's the sort of thing I want to hear!
I reckon I'm sold on these LW binos.

[glenc]

My observing gear is at:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16034&d=1156281094

The suglasses are for bright objects. :)
No, they are for making my laptop fainter.
The torch has a red LED.
80mm binos are 30% brighter than 70mm binos.
They are heavy and you do have to rest but then you get to see meteors and the naked eye sky.

[dhumpie]

Handholding is doable for the 20x80LW's if you use it like Glenn (or like me leaning on the bonnet of my car). And the best part is that it is only slightly heavier than the 15x70's so you can even use them on a standard photo tripod (I use them on my Optex T-550). In fact between my old Saxon 15x70's and my AOE 20x80LW's, the weight-length ratio makes the 20x80LW's easier to handhold (I know this sounds strange).

Also if you are like me and prefer DSO's to planetary and lunar then I say go for the 20x80's over the short tube 80's. The views in the 20x80's are definately brighter than in the 80ST for DSO's (comparable to a 4" refractor). Also the best part is that I don't need to grab eyepieces, filters, barlows etc making my super quick and dirty sessions even better. Less setup, more observing time. Evertime I plan a short holiday, I end up grabbing the binocs and the photo tripod over anything else. And I find that using both eyes, I prefer the views of extended nebulae over narrowband filters views in my 80ST!

Hope that helps.

Darren
p/s: Examples of some of the globs that show resolution include M22, Omega Centauri, Ara glob (NGC 6397), Pavo glob (NGC 6752)