easy to find DSOs for Skywatch Heritage 130p

[breammaster]

Hi guys,

I just got a skywatch heritage 130p and I've seen the moon and jupiter and was blown away at the detail given how much I paid for this scope. I'm going to try my luck at some DSOS and was wondering what are some large and easy ones to find in Melbourne skies. I live in the outer west of melbourne - about 30 kms out.

I thought Orion Nebula would be a good one. Just wondering what I'd expect to see through the eye piece for the brighterr galaxies and nebula etc? Would they just be faint smudge with no color? Should I use the 10mm or 25 mm when looking?

thanks in advance!

[breammaster]

Is the ring or lagoon nebula viewable from Melbourne at this time of year?

[BeanerSA]

The Orion Nebula M42 is extremely easy to find and see. 47 Tucanae is easy to see but not very easy to find in moderately light polluted areas. I've found it in a bright area by scanning between 2 stars, but if you can see the Small Magellanic Cloud with the naked eye, it is pretty easy to find.

[breammaster]

Thanks! I will five 47 Tucanae a go. I'll probably have to get my night vision adapted beforhand. The first time I took the scope out I was just going in and out of the house without adjusting to the dark.

[killswitch]

Nope, around winter. Had a look at Eta Carina and Tarantula yet?

[CJ]

Omega Centauri should be visible. An amazing sight too!

[barx1963]

Hi Wey and welcome to IIS!!
Firstly, to start of with use the 25mm eyepiece. You will find the 10mm will hardly get any use!
M42 (the Great Orion Nebula) is the obvious starting point as it is actually a naked eye object even under suburban skies. I saw it very clearly in Wantirna a few weeks ago. NGC2070 ( the Tarantula nebula) is another great target, not usually vis to naked eye so you have to star hop.

BTW you will not see any colour, your colour receptors in your eye simply are sensitive enough to see the colours that you see in images. To demonstrate this, even outside in bright moonlight, you will not usually see colour, everything appears in shades of grey, and most DSOs are much fainter than moonlight!

Cheers
Malcolm

[breammaster]

Haven't seen either yet but I have seen pictures of Carina. It looks amazing in photos. Even the sketches of it look stunning. I'll add both of those to my list.

Thanks!

[breammaster]

Thanks Malcolm :) Nice to meet you

Yes I'll work with just the 25 mm for now. I know nothing about the constellations really. I've been cheating and using starmap and stellarium. I really do need to know these constellations though. The main one I nkow is Orion. Are there any tips or guides to star hopping?

So what is it like when you finally see these faint shades of grey? I'm really intrigued to see my first DSO. Do they often get mistaken for clouds? Or are they much more obvious than a cloud would look.

[dannat]

most dont get mistaken for clouds -except maybe the magellanic clouds

id suggest you go along to either the geelong astro society, or asv star party at heathcote in march,, someone will be able to help you find some objects.

alt. if you felt like the drive to gisborne id to happy to meet up & show you some objects thru your own & my scope ..it is much easier to spot areas of the sky away from harsh light pollution[pm me for this]

[creeksky]

Being new to it all myself, have a look around the Magellanic clouds in the south, especially the larger one, very slowly with the 25 mm, scan and pan around it.
You will eventually spot a tiny strange faint shaped object,for me it was Tarantula Nebula.
You will know its not a star, and too "way out there" to be a cloud.
As you observe more carefully it will reveal more details, then you will gasp in awe as you will know it is a nebula,you will get excited try barlows and smaller EPs, but realize the 25mm is good enough.
Like discovering a new planet you will feel exhilarated, as IT IS NEW for you to see that far!
That is best I can decribe my experience.
Tarantula is 160, 000 light years away! That tiny cloud of light has taken that long to reach your eye! For me that was "a moment "that I will never forget.
Hope you find some DSO's too!:thumbsup:
Welcome to IIS

[breammaster]

Love your profile pic Creeksky! My favorite film of last year! Tarantula Nebula sounds so cool!

[barx1963]

Petes description of NGC 2070 (tarantula Neb) is spot on, but he left out one important fact. It is the largest and brightest star forming region in the Local Group of galaxies, if it was the same distance away as M42 you could read by it's light!!

Anyway, you asked about star hopping. It is a fairly simple skill but takes a little practice. Once you have done it a few times it becomes quite easy. I learnt to do it by following the star hops outlined in this book http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories/Books--Charts-and-Software/Deep-Sky-Companions--The-Messier-Objects/600/productview.aspx which is an excellent reference to observing the 109 Messier objects, of which 100 are technically visible in Victoria. Each section has detailed notes on how to manually locate each object.

Malcolm

[mental4astro]

Hi Wey,

:welcome: to IIS :)

There is a set of threads here in IIS that lists a series of monthly objects that range from easy naked eye ones through to suck-your-eyeballs-out hard. Have a look at this following link that will take you to The Challenge (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=58900).

The Challenge is not a competition, but a compilation of objects selected that offer not only a degree of observing difficulty, but also a series of objects that are also EASY to find and are offered with an explanation of what you are actually looking at. Thing with observing is a little bit of information goes a long way to helping understand what you are looking at, AND what to look for. The Challenge offers nebulae, open and globular clusters, galaxies, and the planets, structured into different months of the year.

As an example, the brilliant nebula M42: it is a cloud of gas and dust where young stars have just kicked off their nuclear fire and their energy is causing the cloud to glow and the shape of the cloud is being shaped by this same massive energy blowing the material away from these stars. But, there are also dozens of stars that have not quite reached their nuclear fire trigger point, but that they are there, many of them, and massive, is shown by those dark 'clumps' of dust. These clumps are resisting the erosion of the energy from those 'new star'. This resistance comes from the gravity of these protostars as they sweep up dust and gas that is forming them and the future solar systems that will surround them. Now, things don't stop there!!! At the core of M42 is The Trapezium. This is a cluster of four massive stars that is the powerhouse of the nebula. Yet there are more members to this cluster than just these four. There are many more stars in this cluster, with the challenge here is being able to see as many of these as possible. The Trapezium's four main stars are called Trap. A, B, C & D. Two other stars, Trap. E & F are fainter and the easier ones of the fainter members to see. Then there is Trap. G, H, I, J, K, etc. These require large apertures in telescopes to see as they are very faint and good quality optics to distinguish, and exceptionally stable atmospheric conditions.. I've been fortunate to be able to spot the stars A through to I.

Now, armed with all of this, have a new look at M42, this time taking your time to identify the various structures within it, :)

Below I've attached the sketch I made of M42 a couple of years ago when I saw all those component stars of The Trapezium.

[creeksky]

This is a memory sketch, no where near accurate and about 20 or more times larger than how you will see something.
(Maybe not even was the Tarantula?)but a definate DSO- not a cloud!

http://i61.tinypic.com/2dv63cw.jpg

Yes my fav movie last year too, I guess it helped reignite an interest in the stars, planets and exploring.
Keep looking and let us know what you find.

[breammaster]

Always great to have an explanation as to what I'm seeing. These challenges sound fun. Hoping to get out in a couple of days and will try the list. Been cloudy every night since Saturday :(

[breammaster]

Was cloudier than expected tonight and I had to move fast between cloud breaks, but I finally saw Orion. What a sight! Had the 25mm first and noticed the nebula clouds. They were faint. Couldn't help but pop on the 10mm. Magical. I must promise myself not to get aperture fever. Tommorow should be a clearer night. Will try for a harder dso. And I'll return to Orion to study the features better.

Just wondering, does a nebula filter help to see the clouds better?

[barx1963]

Well done Wey!!
A nebula filter works by reducing light other than those wavelengths emitted by the nebula so improving contrast. They are worth trying, bearing in mind I have found they work best with larger apertures. In an 8" the effects is noticeable, in a 12" if is very good, in my 20" it is often mind-blowingly good. The reason is that the sky background is pretty much darkened down to the same level regardless of the size of the scope while the larger aperture collects much more light from the target, so the contrast is much larger with larger scopes. Nevertheless, they are worthwhile trying at any size.
Personally I like the UHC style filters rather than the light pollution style ones.
Good luck with future searches!!

Malcolm

[BeanerSA]

I found a better quality eyepiece, such as a Bintel Plossl, really made a big difference. The 25mm 'kit' eyepieces are accepted as pretty good, but the 10mm, not so much so. You can pick up a Bintel 15mm Plossl for about $50, and difference in optical quality is quite noticable.

If you really want to try a Nebula filter, they are about 1/3 of the price thru BHP, than buying locally.

[breammaster]

So the Bintel Plossl will give a better contrast and hence better nebula viewing?

[Suzy]

Hi Wey and :welcome:
Adding to Alex's great monthly challenges, I've written up some observing lists as well, many of the objects on my lists should be do-able with your scope.


Exploring Puppis- Come and Take a Trip With Me! (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=128740)
Puppis is good viewing right now and there's a lot to see in that one constellation.


Highlights of the Winter Sky (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-691-0-0-1-0.html) (these are the eye candy objects).


May/June Observing Challenge (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75649&highlight=Centaurus) (focusing on the constellation of Hydra).


Suzy's Observing Targets: July/August 2012 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=93668&highlight=Centaurus)


Easy and Beautiful Targets for Binos (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75871&highlight=Centaurus)
Scroll down to post #11 as I've added more to the list.


And I've also written up pretty much everything you need to know to get started in astronomy. See posts #12 - #15 in this thread here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=841635#post841635) .
I really need to put this all together into the one article and pop in the articles section one day. :rolleyes:
Loads of good tips! If I do say so myself :P:lol:.

And lastly, Malcolm mentioned the Messier book for star hopping and observing and I second that. It's a brilliant book. But you'll get it for around half that price through the Book Depository in the U.K.

[breammaster]

Thanks Suzy! Wow! That's a really great guide and there's heaps of info in there to keep me entertained for a long time! The Puppis challenge looks good. It'll be helpful since everything is within the one constellation. I would suck as a starship pilot. Might give it a go tonight since we are looking at clear skies in Melbourne. Is it possible to see the blue and gold of the butterfly cluster in my 130p scope?

[Suzy]

Oh you're welcome! I'm so glad it will be of help to you and that you're excited to go after some of things on my list. It makes it all worthwhile doing these lists :computer: and becomes rewarding when people use them. :astron:

I wrote up the list for Puppis back in November and I still haven't had clear enough skies to go after my own list :screwy:.
Wey, you might want to wait for the Moon to buzz off before tackling many of these objects. You may be okay with some of those brighter star clusters tho. Have a go anyway, but definitely go back when the Moon is not around. See the widget of the Moon on the blue menu bar to the left? Click it and it'll tell you in advance what the Moon will be doing. Also, on that table, check when astronomical twilight is as it's best to do observing after this time (the sky is darker so you will see more). I found the best time to observe was around midnight when most people have their lights turned off and sleeping :rolleyes:.

The Butterfly Cluster is in Scorpius and is more of a winter object. Geee I think it would be very low on the horizon in the wee hours of the morning, at the moment ?. And I honestly can't remember the coloured stars in it :shrug:. If you have downloaded Stellarium (free night sky software lots of people on here use), it will tell you when objects are viewable from your location. Then you can make a proper plan for your night of observing starting up first viewing objects that set earlier in the night. If you make a proper plan for the night you will likely have a better & fun filled observing session.

Exploring within a single constellation is the best way to become really familiar with it and IMO tend to remember better of where those objects sit. Gives a nice personal experience :D. And it's so much fun!

If you enjoy seeing coloured stars, Canis Major has oodles of gorgeous gold stars. Wow, I just love scanning the scope aimlessly through that region. There's also a lovely gold & yellow pair known as The Summer Albiero (145 CMA). Feast your eyes on the Winter Albiero when it's Cygnus season - very cool!
I also did a big tour through there but I haven't typed it up yet. And I also mapped out a neat, easy little star hop to find VY Canis Majoris (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smmNP8G69vc)(watch the very cool video) - it's the largest known star :eyepop:. It's apparently viewable in binos (tho I haven't) & I've spotted it easily thru my little 4" dob, so your scope should nab it easily. There's another nice little challenge for you :D.
If you want the star hop, let me know. And I should hurry up and type up the tour! :rolleyes:

There is one particular star that might be a nice little challenge for you and ridiculously easy to find. Point the scope at beta Crucis (Mimosa). That's the star on the bottom left of the Southern Cross. Use high magnification. Look to the left of beta (I have a Newtonian tube so my views are flipped). It's a tiny blood red star known as Ruby Crucis. Both objects should be within the same field of view in the eyepiece. This is called a carbon star and one of the reddest, if not *the* reddest of all the carbon stars. Unfortunately it often gets overlooked because it's a southern object and not on a lot of carbon star lists which are mainly compiled by northern hemisphere people.
I'd be interested to see if this is do-able with your 130mm scope, as it's very easy to find in my 10".
And while you're there, move your scope down below beta a little bit (you may make out a fuzzy patch with your naked eye) - that's our famous Jewel Box cluster. Lovely assortment of colours in there and it's one of our showpiece objects of the southern sky.

The showpiece globular cluster, 47Tuc is very easy to find by using this method:
Look for the really big triangle in the sky facing south (Hydrus), which sits to the right of the Southern Cross. Make this your first object for the night at around 8pm as it's getting low as the night progresses. You know you have the correct triangle if you see a pair of stars running thru the left side of the triangle - sitting about the half way mark on that imaginery line.
- Now, go to beta Hydri which is the bottom right star on that triangle.
- Hold out 3 fingers horizontally, at arms length with one eye closed, above beta.
- Voila! You're there :D. Easily spotted in binos btw.

We are very fortunate in our southern sky to have two of the largest and brightest globular clusters in the sky - Omega Centauri (brightest) and 47Tuc (second brightest, which many including myself think is prettier).

Along with the stuff I already gave you, that should keep you busy for a while and out of trouble :P.

[Suzy]

BTW, I forgot to mention, M31 The Andromeda Galaxy will totally rock your telescope. I get awesome views with my 4" dob. It's big!!! But you'll have to wait till Nov/Dec. You just missed out I'm afraid :sadeyes:. You will need a good clear view of the northern horizon as it sits fairly low. It's ridiculously easy to find using the bright golden star, Mirach as your guide.

Here's the map for star hopping. Turn the map upside down for us tho as it's orientated for the northern hemisphere.
http://www.space.com/7426-starhopping-101-find-andromeda-galaxy.html

[Jemmo]

Noooooo I only just learnt about that galaxy as I'm a noon and I was so excited I had the 10" dobsonian out ready then started searching for it with an app on my phone only to see it was below the horizon. Knowing I've missed it by a few months is so annoying do you happen to have any photos of it

[breammaster]

I've been really keen to see Andromeda as well. Oh well, I'll just wait a year. I'm interested to see sketches of this from a smaller telescope. The hunt for 47tuc begins in a couple of hours.

[Jemmo]

What ep would you use for Tuc?

[BeanerSA]

I see it best with my 15mm, but YMMV.

[BeanerSA]

That has been my experience.

[barx1963]

Jemmo
The rule is, as a general guide, when looking for an object, use your lowest power eyepiece, as you want the widest field possible to track it down. then once you have it, you can, if needed, up the power.
47Tuc is a big object. so it looks good at low power, but moderate power enables you to resolve all the stars. If conditions allow, cranking it up allows you to get quite deep in the core and you even start to see variations (slight though they be!) in colour if you have enough aperture.
Remember, there is no "best" eyepiece for an object, it is really finding what works for you and gives you the views that you enjoy.

Malcolm

[Suzy]

Jemmo, go into the imaging forum for deep sky objects and do a search for the Andromeda galaxy. You should see several images that our guys have taken.

Meanwhile, this is September's image in our 2015 IceInSpace calender taken by Attila Bodi. The calender is for sale through the IceInSpace shop.
177254

Don't worry too much about missing Andromeda. In a month or two, and then heading right through winter, it's a galaxy feast to be had. You will be way too busy observing as many as you can and trust me, you won't have time for all of them in the one season :P . The 10" dob even thru light pollution will rock many of them. And wait till you see Markarian's Chain (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090609.html)in Coma Berenices. OMG :eyepop: a whole string of galaxies all lined up, it's utter craziness I tell you!!!

I see Leo starting to get visible now. Here in Brisbane at 11.30pm it's around 34 degrees above my horizon. You want to observe galaxies at least above 40 degrees to avoid the murky lower atmosphere. Leo will bring in some really nice galaxies as it rises higher and higher each night :thumbsup:.

Please note tho, that a lot of these galaxies will be faint fuzzies. Embrace the fact that you looking at something that took something like 30 million years or whatever for the light to reach your eyeballs :D.

In winter, M 104, the Sombrero galaxy will bring you to your knees! :prey2:
And that galaxy loves high power as it's fairly bright. I found a 7mm eyepiece thru my 10" dob gives the best views. One night I saw it during an exceptionally good night of seeing (again, from my LP backyard) and I didn't recognise it. It was that good! I had to check the charts to do a double take on what I was observing. This comes down to something I constantly urge on here - keep re-visiting those galaxies as the seeing conditions will dictate how the object looks in the eyepiece. Some nights can appear extremely faint. High cloud too is a real killer on DSOs (deep sky objects), and hard to tell at night time :mad2:.

I found with my 10" dob, my 10mm eyepiece on galaxies does the job the best on most of them. I have a 72 degree widefield eyepiece which makes finding them and observing them a whole lot easier at this magnification. And globular clusters Omega Centauri and 47 Tuc will easily fit into the field of view (fov) of the eyepiece in all their entirety. Where as a 10mm plossl 52deg fov I think? Thereabouts anyway, won't fit them all in. They look amazing thru a 10mm ep, you can resolve many of the stars! Basically, my 10mm is my hardest working eyepiece for my 10".

If you want a really easy galaxy to find right now, here's one for you.....
NGC 5102 in Centaurus.
It sits practically huddled up next to the bright star iota Centauri so this galaxy couldn't be easier to find! In my 72 deg. widefield 10mm eyepiece, both the star and galaxy are within the same fov. Pop the star out of the way so the brightness doesn't inhibit your views of the galaxy. On a reasonable night of seeing, you should see a kind of brick shape; it's a spiral galaxy.

Meanwhile, getting ready for galaxy season in the next month or so, my biggest tip would be observe as much nebula as you possible can right now. This will help prepare you for observing those faint fuzzy galaxies. The more you observe, the better your eyes will get with picking out detail. And learning the art of averted vision is also another good tip for you to practice on those nebulae. Many planetary nebs out there too right now worth a look at.

Hope this info helps. as you're new to this hobby, I'm not sure if you know of these objects yet.

Enjoy! :)

[breammaster]

I saw a number of clusters including 47 tuc last night. I did notice that many of them were faint. 47 tuc was quite faint for me. Its was about half the size of the moon but a faint shade of grey in my 10mm. I used the 25 mm and it was a bit brighter. I wonder if its the full moon messing with contrast or maybe i need to upgrade to the bintel plossyl

[Jemmo]

Thanks Suzy. To be honest the only things I've managed to see so far in the month I've had the 10" dobsonian is the moon of course. Some great views of Jupiter with 9mm ep and Orion neb looks good through my 26mm wide view ep other than that I haven't seen much else so I will definitely have a look for the things you've listed

[BeanerSA]

Night vision helps. The more you see it, the more you will see, if that makes sense.

[breammaster]

Yeah I think I was staring at my ipad screen too much trying to figure where everything was. Probably effected night vision

[Suzy]

Adrian, you're very welcome :thumbsup:.

Wey, yes the Moon in the way is no good for deep sky observing (esp. now as it's nearly full).
And bright screens are a big no no as they totally mess with night vision. Only use red light when observing. Cover the screen with lots of red cellophane. No good if it's pink. Lots of layers until it's more red. And dark adapt your eyes for a good 10 mins - 20 mins is better. If you have stray lights from neighbours coming your way, pop a black hood over your head while looking thru the eyepiece.
My backyard isn't dark, I have neighbours lights and street lights around, so I just turn down the brightness on my lappy to very dim and only look at it when I have to. But if you're using it a lot as you're learning, go the red light. The Sky Safari app. turns the screen red so all done for you :) .

[breammaster]

Thanks for the red cellophane tip Suzy :) I'll give it a shot for the next viewing.

Managed to see Tarantula Nebula tonight. Was faint but I stared long enough to kinda see the arms of the nebula. Looked at 47tuc again. Better viewing tonight under a towel to block moonlight. All in all a good night. Good to put on some music as well as I observed. Makes the experience more pleasurable.

Was looking for the small mallengelic cloud but I think it was to faint tonight for me. I'll wait for a smaller moon. BEautiful clear skies though.

[barx1963]

The Small Magellanic Cloud is an object that is hard to see in a single view. To achieve that, probably binos are the best bet. I have seen the entire cloud in my 15x70s but it needs a reasonable dark sky, even in the moderate light pollution at home it is not obvious. The reason is that it is quite large, and most scopes only show a portion of it.

Malcolm

[Sylvain]

Yes, when looking for DSO target, it's crucial to have your eyes adapted to the darkness! It makes such a massive difference on how much you can see. Think about when you are in a dark room/at night and suddenly turn the light on: this feeling/pain you have in your eyes is your pupil rapidly contracting to reduce light influx. It will then take a while (10 minutes mini) to slowly dilate and let the light flow back in. So very important to avoid all kind of white light. Stick to red light and perhaps grab yourself a red light torch to help see you around. A good tool is a planisphere. That is literally a map of the sky and you can look at it with your red light torch to navigate the sky. If you are planning your night with some specific objects, why not print some maps ahead to help you star-hop your way to the object? I find it a good exercise to plan ahead how you will get to your target.

As previously mentioned, always start with your longest focal length eyepiece as this will give you the widest field of view and make it easier to star-hop. If you are thinking of upgrading your eyepiece, IMO for about the same budget there are better deals to be had out there than the standard Bintel plossl, such as the flat field eyepieces, but you need to have a look around the web and eBay.

But the most important is to keep observing and using your equipment. By doing this, you will improve your skills for finding your way to objets and train your eyes on observing and detailing them. I believe seeing and observing are 2 different things: it is easy to see an object, but to observe it means you take the time to detail it, look for faint details, explore the structure. A great tool to help with observing is peripheral vision: this is utilising the outer part of your eye rather than the centre part. It's the same zone that detects movement in the background, such as when you are focusing on something but your eye picks up some movement in the background and you instinctively look at it. That peripheral vision is actually surprisingly sensitive in its detection capabilities - a crucial evolutionary survival tool. To stimulate this zone of your eye, what you want to do is try not to stare at the objet directly. Instead look next to it, look at different points around the object and slowly move your eye around it. It takes a bit of practice and is a bit tricky because you will sometime pick some details and instinctively look at the object but then the moment you look at it straight, the details are gone. But practice that and it will truly help your observing and you will be able to make up more details in the objects you observe.

Keep us posted with your observations!

[breammaster]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-25-Flat-Field-Telescope-eyepiece-16-mm-Astronomy-/191501366657?pt=AU_Cameras_Telescop es_Binoculars&hash=item2c965ef581

How would something like this perform on DSOs in my 130p?

[gaa_ian]

Great advise Sylvain, I have also found sketching to be a great way to pick up detail. The peripheral vision trick is particularly good when observing planetary nebula ! I do quite a lot of my observing with my 4" Kson dobsonian with some ortho eyepieces and have recently shown some newbies how to use the peripheral vision trick and it worked a treat for them :thumbsup:

[barx1963]

Yes it will perform, just probably not significantly better than your existing eyepieces.
A small scope like the 130P is still a small scope, not that there is anything wrong with small scopes, but the main limiting factor with any scope is the aperture.
Eyepieces make a marginal difference at best. For example in my kit I have a 10mm Ethos (cost at present is around $800 - $900) and I also have a 10mm plossl that came free with my first ever scope. I have done the exercise of viewing an object through both eyepieces. Sure the Ethos has a massive field and the plossl does exhibit some aberrations at the edge and the eye relief is easier with the Ethos. But as far as how the object I am looking at is concerned, not much difference.
The lesson is that chasing "performance" by buying eyepieces is not necessarily a winning game. Good quality eyepieces at the top end are worth it in my opinion, but only if you understand what the true benefits are.

Malcolm

[creeksky]

Great that you have seen some faint DSO's ,well done!
Maybe stick with what you have, put what you would spend on EPs toward a larger appenture scope.
As a beginner to Astronomy it seems like a game of patience ,with dedicated observing and that these faint objects are like looking through a microscope, except they are really very large and unbelievable far away!Making them seem small.
But you are looking at something that may contain millions of stars or remnants of stars.
Suzy's guides are fantastic, (should be stickies)and the advice from more expert observers are invaluable in your journey, keep searching the sky is the limit!:)

[Suzy]

Awwww *shucks* thanks Pete :).
And plus+1 for what you said here

Sylvain has given some really great advice too, I couldn't agree more with what you said Sylvan, re "seeing" and "observing".
And I'd also like to expand on what you said - Spot on!

Wey, use the opportunity of when the Moon is around to also observe the sky without any aid. If you learn the brightest stars in the sky (it's within the link of my original post here), it will make finding objects so much easier. You won't be learning them all in one go either, as different stars will be visible during different seasons so you will have plenty of time to become acquainted with them. Then learn some constellations, slowly over time (don't expect to know them all :lol: ) . Make up your own constellation pattern if it makes things easier - I know I have a few made up ones :rolleyes:. Bet several others here do too :P.

[breammaster]

Thanks guys for all the advice :) feel very welcome around here. I'll keep what I have and work with it. It's just a whole new experience for me and I'm really digging it. I think the more I learn and see up there, the more engrossed in it I become. It can be easy to get carried away with all the gadgets and gizmos and sometimes you just got to step back and go with simplicity.

It's amazing how these photons travelled all that way to get to our eyes. Feeling very connected to the universe. It's a much different feeling to just passively looking at Hubble space photos. I think that's what drew me towards getting that scope was even though I knew I wasn't going to see amazing images(even though they really are quite extraordinary in a different way),it was like I'm participating in something bigger.


I'll save up for that 10inch dobsonian in a few years.

[creeksky]

You are very welcome, each of us see's things differently,why should observing the universe be any different? You will see things I haven't or won't for awhile. Because you are more observant.
(Even if I have or someone has a bigger scope) one day I may get something bigger to observe with but, even now with an 8 inch Dob I feel kinship with the first observers, and they saw a lot!
You are spot on Wey,its amazing that light, photons have travelled 1000s or hundreds of thousands of years to be seen by your eyes !At exactly the time you happened to see it!:)

[Suzy]

It's a really humbling experience isn't it.

[Sylvain]

I think you are absolutely correct. This hobby quickly takes you in when you realise what it actually means. You get a glimpse of the immensity of the universe, barely able to imagine how big it is and how small we are. it never ceases to amaze me. I find it a great time to reflect and it puts things in perspective I have found.

I also agree, it is easy to get carried away and get aperture fever. I have been down that road myself! And sure, I have enjoyed the greater aperture, but with greater aperture comes greater setup time, extra lugging around and I found that it took away some of the spontaneity of observing the wonders. Just knowing there is a long setup ahead of the photons hitting your eye, sometime made me not want to observe at all. For me, bigger is not always better. This definitely is a very personal thing though! I am now happy with my smaller form factor, quality setup :)

And look, you have 130mm of aperture, which is more than what most of us had for our first scope! Mine was a modest 114/900 newtonian. In your case, it is likely there is more to gain by fine tuning your telescope, especially the collimation - which is the alignment of the mirrors - than upgrading at this stage.

Clear skies!

[breammaster]

What a difference a dark night makes. Went out yesterday and Managed to see a really bright 47tuc. Could see the fine specs of stars that dot this cluster. M42 was really green aswell. That Nebula was out of control. Also managed to see the Ruby Crucis. Was only a very small red dot that I could see by changing viewing angles.

[breammaster]

I think I managed to see Sombrero Galaxy tonight. Was pretty low in the sky at 11pm. Under corvus constellation. Needed to use basically averted vision to see the thing. Was a very thin faint line. To the right of it(in my reflected telescope image) there was a small jewel box like grouping of stars.

Basically like this but much fainter.

http://www.ericteske.com/2014/05/m104-sombrero-galaxy-with-canon-t5i.html

Does it get brighter in a few months?

[barx1963]

Wey
Well done on M104 (The Sombrero Galaxy). Yes it is low at the moment, so that makes it not as spectacular as later when it is higher. I just looked at it now about 12-30 Victorian time and only so so, but the transparency was going so there you go. Try a couple of hours ater or at the next new moon and you will be rewarded!

Cheers

Malcolm

[breammaster]

Thanks Malcolm :) I might give it another shot tonight if I manage to stay awake till then. What magnification would you recommend for it on my scope? I've got a 650mm focus length. I have a 25mm, 14.5mm and 10mm eyepiece.


By the way, I've become so obsessed with the sky that the other night when it was 90% cloudy I stood outside for an hour trying to pick out little cloud breaks! Managed to get jupiter in but not much else. hehe

[BeanerSA]

It's nice to see somebody else's experiences matching my own so closely.

With regards to your above question, see if you can find an eyepiece calculator online somewhere, and look up the apparent size of the object you want to look at. Then you can pick the eyepiece that is going to allow you to fit the whole object in it.

[breammaster]

Thanks for the tip :) I'll check out a calculator. Not sure how dim it'll be at a high mag in my scope though. Can't wait till the autumn when this galaxy is brighter.

[breammaster]

Are there any relatively easy to find galaxies tonight that I could find in my scope? ANy that can be seen before 12:30am?

[bugeater]

Thinking back to when I used to do deep sky stuff many years ago, the objects that stick in my mind were Omega Centauri, Eta Carinae (I found that by accident when browsing through the milky way) and the Sombrero Galaxy (which blew my mind when I found it).

[barx1963]

Wey
I meant to reply a while back, but it slipped my mind. The obvious one at the moment is M104 (the Sombrero Galaxy). Of course you have to wait til about midnight ATM for it to be high enough to be worthwhile, and wil/ be small in your scope, but is a cracker object. NGC 5128 (Centaurus A) is also becoming prominent, but is quite low in surface brightness so in your scope is more of a smudge. The pairing of M65 and M66 (the bright 2 galaxies in the Leo triplet) are also nice and should be easy to see in the same field.
Remember, galaxies are the ultimate "faint fuzzies" very hard to see much detail without dark skies, dark adaption, averted vision and a bit of aperture helps!!

Malcolm

[breammaster]

Malcolm, my galaxy observing might be better off now that I am the proud owner of an 8 inch Saxon dob! Got it for dirt cheap. Almost the same price I paid for my heritage. I need to figure a way to either sit of stand without putting too much pressure on my lower back. Also need to vacuum the spider webs that are inside the tube. Funny how the web actually don't effect the image at all.

[Akwestland]

To all who have contributed,

What a great thread. Some of the tutorials/advice given here are fantastic, I read the whole thread top to bottom, including some of the associated links. as a very new starter it has given me some objects/techniques to focus on.

There may even be some components that could be beneficial as a "sticky" for the raw beginners (like me).

I will re-read this again yet and make some notes for myself and am now looking at some of the apps and links to further educate myself.

Fantastic work and thank you all.

Cheers,
Andrew

[BeanerSA]

Agreed. This scope in this form and also the AWB OneSky, are really starting to get some traction, and I'm sure we'll see many more requests for observing suggestions.

[breammaster]

I didn't realise awb did a version of the heritage. The base looks like the bushnell ares 5. I dig the blue tube.

[nudibranch]

Thanks for this thread Wey.

My daughter got a the same 130P Dob for Xmas and we've had loads of fun with it. I've read through a lot of the discussion you have engendered and it's been instrumental in helping us understand what's what and where!

I posted the current run of sights (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=1159500#post115950 0) we are doing at the moment in another thread, sounds like you are in the same area. I can highly recommend the double stars in Volans if you're in the area. It's amazing to think you can see something like this in such a small telescope through all the light pollution!

FWIW I have been trying to see M65 and M66 for a couple of nights as the moon is slowing leaving the area, but so far the LP is winning. Maybe I'll have more luck later in the Autumn.

Anyway thanx again - Paul :)

[breammaster]

No probs Paul :) don't thank me though. The long time members like Suzy, Malcolm and Alex are the ones that have been making these great suggestions here.

Will give Volans a go. I've become more interested in double stars lately. At first I thought they were quite boring cause they're just points of light. But I think I've become more interested in them now. I'm keen to see alberio in Cygnus. Not sure when it's viewable in Australia.

[Suzy]

Oh sweet !!!! Congratulations Wey, oh boy oh boy you will see so much through your 8". I'm so happy for you. You deserve it as you are so taken in with the beauty of the sky, it sure has gone to a good home!

Ummm also... we do love spending peoples money :P , hehe aperture fever sure caught you quick!

It's impressive that you nabbed the Sombrero galaxy so low in your Heritage scope as it would've been quite dim. You deserve a medal. You have great observing skills and you will totally rock that 8"!

Regarding seating. I have the height adjustable observing chair from Bintel which cost around $175. Very solid - you can do all sorts of positions on that chair and you won't fall over :lol:.
Meanwhile, a quick fix which worked for me before I got the chair was that I used a stool and added/took away phone books as needed.
Some people use a gas lift office chair.

And seeing as you've developed an interest in double stars, I'll give you a few to split which is even more fun than observing more distant pairs. When I say "split", the star actually looks like one but on looking closer they're actually two very close together. Use the 10mm eyepiece on all.

alpha Crucis (the brightest star in Crux).

alpha Centauri (the brighter of the two pointers to the Southern Cross).

Castor in Gemini (Castor & the brighter star Pollux make up the feet of Gemini). The pair are very distinct in the northern sky to the right of Orion.

Gamma Velorium (in Vela near the Southern Cross).
It is the brightest known example of a Wolf-Ryatt star which is a rare type of star with a very hot surface seen to be ejecting gas. In the eyepiece it is so bright! It's easily split showing it's fainter companion and another two companions are visible a bit further out. You should see all four in the same field of view.
In the map, the star is marked "Y" greek letter for gamma.
http://www.constellation-guide.com/constellation-list/vela-constellation/

Actually, while you're there in Vela, knock yourself out with the super cool planetary nebula NGC 3132 (The Eight Burst Nebula)- you won't be disappointed.

And then in winter there is the famous double double in Lyra - epsilon Lyra. Turn map upside down for us as it's orientated for the northern hemisphere. http://freestarcharts.com/17-guides/stars/92-epsilon-lyrae-lyr-the-double-double

Oh by the way, re your question earlier, Albireo in Cygnus is a winter object which will be around the same time as Lyra.

And if you're up for a challenge, which I reckon you are because you've shown great observing skills so far ;) .......

Split Sirius.
Its companion is very dim, out shined and made harder to see due to Sirius being so bright (the brightest star in the sky aside from our sun).
Tip: do this in the evening before the sky gets too dark. It'll be much easier to see as Sirius won't appear so bright against the dark sky.
This is a challenge to many and if you spot it, give yourself a big pat on the back! Make sure to carefully look and take your time. I tried showing hubby but for the life of him he couldn't spot it but was so easy for me to see it.

The Astronomy 2015 book has a list of easy to find double stars in it. Available from the IceInSpace shop.

Lastly, if you want to see a gorgeous brightly coloured blue planetary nebula, there's one in Centaurus called The Blue Planetary Nebula (duh :P) - NGC 3918. It's an easy hop. Launch from delta Crucis to the right staying on the same line and move about the distance of gamma & delta. Trust me on this, you will be rewarded :D.

If you download the free sky programme Stellarium, you can have a play with the programme and see when these constellations are viewable.

[Suzy]

Hearing feedback like this is so rewarding and I'm sure Malcolm, Alex, Pete, Paul, Sylvan & others who've contributed on this thread would feel the same. Truly glad it's been such a big help as the initial learning curve in this hobby can be daunting and one of the comforting things about this forum with such great people is that we try to make that experience fun and a little less daunting. I have the most massive respect for Malcolm. He has been tirelessly, endlessly & with enthusiasm before I even joined up has helped beginners no end. I learned so much from him when I joined. Honestly Malcolm you deserve a plaque or something!

[nudibranch]

Hi suzy, how "big" is the blue planetary nebula NGC 3918 ? I'm confident we are looking in the right area, but still struggling to find it.

Thanx for all your advice. Paul

EDIT: actually we found it! was smaller than I initially assumed. Found a reference that called it 8-10 arcseconds, so I could compare that to some of the double stars we had found :) and WOW!! it really is blue, very surreal !

[PSALM19.1]

Yup, ditto! And, if I may, I'd add Alex into the Amatuer Astronomy Advice Awards as well! :thumbsup: Oh, and Brian!

And by the way, Paul, I've been using an office chair with my 8"Dob for ages and it works really well! Better than spending 179 bucks on an astronomy chair...but hey, your choice!

[barx1963]

Shucks Suzy, you are making my head swell!

I sometimes worry whether I am giving good advice, but basically rely upon what worked for me.

Malcolm

[Akwestland]

Further to this list Suzy, I would like to add names like Raymo, Barb & David (Tamtarn) who I have met, Daniel (Dannat), and Bo (Traveller) , and I am sure there are more.

I have asked some seemingly idiotic questions in the past, but at the end of the day it is with the patience of these people to try to explain things so that complete newbies (like me) can start to get a grasp on what may otherwise be seen as the very basis of the pursuit.

And again, Suzy. I have already re-read this complete thread over coffee and have started the list.

This sort of list of objectives to pursue to a newbie is a great aid to give us direction in what to look at, rather than panning the heavens and not knowing what we are looking at.

My hat is off to all those mentioned and all those that have helped.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown ::bowdown:

Cheers,
Andrew.

[raymo]

Don't forget Antares is coming up soon. Stunning apparently green
companion in my 6" Mak, but no sign of it in either my 8 or 10"
Newts. I thought I should find something to add to the list, being as I was so kindly mentioned.
raymo

[breammaster]

Thanks Suzy :) Love your challenges!

Went out last night and tried the Sirius one. Might have been too late. Glare from Sirius was blocking its fainter star. Although I did watch it hoping to see the fain star pop in between the breaks in the glare. Didn't manage but will try again later in the week.

Managed alpha crucis split. In the 10mm I just manage the seperation. It's pretty cool to see though. They're quite close together.

Still yet to try alpha centuari, castor or gamma valorium.

I did attempt blue planetary and eight burst. No luck last night for me :(

I'm having trouble with my finderscope which could be describe as blurry. Even at best focus, every thing has a halo around it. Might have to get a red dot or better finderscope later. It also doesn't have an illuminated cross hair.

[breammaster]

They really are a great bunch around here :) perhaps the most helpful lot in all of the astronomy forums around the world ;)

[Suzy]

That's awesome that you were able to put a good list together, so glad to be of help :).
I have several observing books and to find a decent amount of objects within the one constellation no one book seems to give it all, so it's actually a lot of sourcing to start a good tour. My tour guide for Puppis is a good example of that sourcing (It's listed on page 2 of this thread).

If you guys are interested, I have another couple of very nice blue planetary nebulae (again, use your 10mm eyepiece):

-The Ghost of Jupiter, NGC 3242 in Hydra (you can see this now).
This would be my favourite of all the blue nebs.
You can make out the nodules on each side if you observe it well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_3242


-The Blue racquet ball in Ophicius, NGC 6572 in Ophiuchus (winter).
http://observing.skyhound.com/archives/jul/NGC_6572.html

I'll throw another one in actually; though it's not blue, it has a very interesting shape! Sort of an "S" shape in a square.
The Spiral Nebula, NGC 5189 in Musca (it's below Crux).
http://annesastronomynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/NGC-5189-by-Robert-Gendler.jpg


It's interesting how different peoples eyes will see them as either blue or green. It's the way our eyes are apparently. I always see vivid blue.

There's a thread put up as a sticky packed with great info on observing planetary nebulae:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=79684


The Moon is starting to rise later each night now as it heads into New Moon. Tonight for example it doesn't rise till 9.30pm here in Brisbane, so it's time to get out there and observing again :D.

Wey, give Sirius' companion another go without the Moon in the way. It's tiny and faint and sits very close at the bottom of Sirius. This will be a good feather in your cap if you can nab it.
178789

[breammaster]

Gave it another shot last night. Stayed on it for 30 mins. I saw glimpses of a tiny dot In The top left hand corner of Sirius in my eyepiece. Not sure if it was just Rays from Sirius A though. had to use a Barlow with my 10mm.

Is that image you posted the view through the eyepiece or is that the corrected view? Where would the pup sit on the view in the eyepiece?

So so keen to see this :) hehe mainly because of its difficulty.


Also found eight burst nebula. Was quite a hard find because I could only see the nebula using averted vision at first. It was so faint. Thought it was just a star at first and hen noticed the slight grey circle haze around it. Switched to a smaller eyepiece and stuck on a nebulae filter and whammy. There it was. Not very clear on my 10mm cheap eyepiece. Not much stru true to be see.

[Suzy]

When I saw it in the evening it was sitting where that pic shows. And it was a tiny faint dot.
I don't know what that pic was taken thru.
If it was really close to Sirius, it sounds like it could be it. The bright rays of Sirius shouldn't show up as a dot- they are long bright lines. They are called diffraction spikes caused by the spider veins from the secondary mirror.

Excellent going nabbing the Eight Burst neb. It could be poor sky conditions that you didn't get a pleasing view- that happened to me a number of times when I first tried observing it; I thought what's the big deal, I can hardly make it out. And then :eyepop: it fast became one of my fav planetary nebs. Please do keep having a go at this. And ah, yes, I did forget to mention (so forgot about that!) that with lower power it looks very stellar! If you have a nice clear night, I've even seen the orange hue surrounding it. You don't need an excellent night of good seeing to see this neb, just a good night. And I'm guessing you weren't observing in moonlight.

Still.... you can tick this one off your obs list :P:lol:.

When I observe objects to the south, for this time of year I use the two globular clusters, Omega Centauri and 47 Tuc to gauge the sky conditions. If you're in a darkish sky, find a star that's just within your limiting magnitude for naked eye visibility.

Looking south, I'm not looking over the city lights from my suburban backyard and these are *just* naked eye to me. When the transparency is poor, they are hard to make out with 47 Tuc non existent. So if I don't see at least Omega, I forget observing. If I see 47 Tuc clearly, I get all excited for a good night's observing.

[breammaster]

Will definitely give 8 burst another go. 47 Tuc didn't look that spectacular as it usually does, on that night. So conditions might have been too bright.

I saw sombrero again last night for the first time in the 8 inch. Could see it was a galaxy at 10mm but the sky around it was quite light for some reason so wasn't much contrast and must have kept me from really seeing the bulge of that galaxy. Are there any tricks for bringing out galaxies like this? Shuold I go up in Mag so that it dims the background sky?

I did however go to Omega Centauri after this and WOWSERS! I think I prefer this to 47 Tuc!. It was out of this world! I had it in full view in the 15mm. Wouldn't wanna go any shorter in eyepiece for that glob. Also split Alpha Centauri while I was there.

Saturn looks so much better in the 8 inch as well. see the division in the outer rings. Really tempted to up the mag on this one.

[breammaster]

Some new notches to add.

- lagoon nebula. At least I think it was. There was a dark lane between the two parts and looked like a near by open cluster that could have been part of the nebula itself.. Could have been the triffid.

- m83. Again this was very faint. More like a smudge. Didn't get to see any spiral structure :( maybe it was something else but I'm pretty sure this was I the right location. There was a star in the middle of a very faint circular cloud. Even averted vision wouldn't bring out the spiral. These galaxies are becoming more of an obsession and a collecting thing than they are for pure pleasure. Haha

[Suzy]

Hi Wey, you are getting lots of stuff lately! :thumbsup:

Galaxies end up being an obsession to most of us. Regarding M83, that bright star in the middle sounds like it's the core. Most galaxies are very faint, if you are observing from a dark site you're more likely to see some sort of spiral structure. With M83, I've had no luck from my suburban backyard seeing an structure, I can only see the core. Most of the viewable galaxies are elliptical so they just fuzzy dots really - some brighter and bigger than others - so observing spirals is such a treat.

I've found that using too high a magnification makes the views worse as yes, higher mag does darken the sky background but it also dims the galaxy. M104 The Sombrero Galaxy is one of the few that can take high magnification well because it's quite bright. I found a 7mm eyepiece hits the spot nicely with it. I generally observe galaxies with either my 15mm or 10mm eyepiece.

If Saturn looks super, up the magnification!!! Don't be afraid to go for a 5mm eyepiece. If it looks good in that, up it even more.

It sounds very much like M8 the Lagoon nebula that you got :).

As for the globs, I have a widefield 10mm eyepiece and that's generally what I use to observe them in as it fits the entire glob within the field of view very nicely :D. Having said that, a 15mm gives brilliant views as well.