Bargain Knockies from Andrews

[ballaratdragons]

Geez, if you want a Bargain on Knockies have a look at these prices on the Andrews site!!!! :eyepop:

Display stock to clear...limited quantity
Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Price $(AUD)
10 x 50WA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $29.00
10 x 50 LE (Long Eye relief) . . . . . . $29.00
12 x 50 Multicoated . . . . . . . . . $29.00
P12X60 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $49.00
15 x 60 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $49.00
20 x 60 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $49.00
Zoom 10~30X60 . . . . . . . . . . $69.00
13 x 70 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $79.00
15 x 70 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $79.00

[janoskiss]

Ken, many of those cheap binos are likely to disappoint. I tried to buy an inexpensive pair of 7x50s from Andrews last year. They had about half a dozen different models at the time but could not find me one that was at least fully coated and did not have ruby coated objective lenses.

On a <$100 budget I'd go for a Celestron UpClose, which are well built binos with fully coated optics at little over $60 for the 7x35 and 10x50 models from centre.net.au. (Andrews and AOE stock them too and I'm sure they could match any price.) I have bought the 10x50 UpClose for a present and tried them out before passing them on. I was most pleasantly surprised with both build quality and performance. Of course at night it does not have the higher contrast you get from full multicoatings, but would make a useful observing tool nevertheless; much better than anything else under $100.

I'm moving bargain knockies discussion to a new thread. :P

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks for clearing that up Steve.

Maybe someone might want to buy these Bargain knockies as a present for someone they don't like :lol:

I thought they sounded a bit too cheap.

[janoskiss]

Well, maybe some of those binos would be fine, but I think they are best saved for those who are able to walk into the store and have a look at what they are buying for themselves. I found it impossible to get any info on binos over the phone or by email.

AOE have some fully coated and fully multicoated binos on their specials/clearance page cheap. The 20x80s are a steal. AOE are better at giving info via email than many other dealers and their minimum standard for binos is quite good. There's also 5mW laser pointers going for $75.

[ausastronomer]

On a <$100 budget I would go to the races and try to turn your $100 into $200 so you can at least buy something you can look through :)

CS-John B

[wavelandscott]

I think this is the best quote I've read on this topic in a long long time...I was in fact laughing out loud...and I agree with the thought expressed by it... IMHO buy good quality once...

[janoskiss]

Hmm, while I agree that a <$100 bino is a long way from a $200 bino, if one can only spend so much IMO it is still better to have the cheap bino than none, if one has the desire to explore the sky with an optical aid.

It is easy to talk about minimum one should spend when we are in a position to easily spend that much and then some. There are many people who are struggling to meet ends meet and by that I don't mean the usual family feeding, mortgage paying, worrying-about-petrol-price individuals so skillfully targeted by federal election campaigns. I mean more like for example a student on Austudy or someone on disability pension living off between around $150 and 200 a week depending on their circumstances. Can you even imagine? It's hard to cover just the basics: food, rent, bills, transport, let alone a bit of entertainment. $200 binoculars? Forget it! $100 binoculars? Forget it! $20 second hand binoculars? Okay, but it's nothing but boiled noodles for the next week.

So my point is that there is a place for inexpensive gear and there are real people out there who simply cannot afford to spend more. And I don't think they should bet the little they have on horses. (I know you were kidding John btw. I hope you were kidding! :o )

Sorry for the rant. My philosophy is that you should always buy the best you can afford, but no better.

[ausastronomer]

Steve,

If you can't afford to spend over $100 on a pair of binoculars you buy something 2nd hand for <$100, that you can at least look through :)

CS-John B

[dcnicholls]

Some thoughts about binocs. YMMV.

Where are you going to use them? If out bushwalking, weight is a critical factor. If at home or carried in a car, less so.

But you have to hold them up and that is literally a pain in the neck after a minute or so. Consider a "pantograph" mount on a solid tripod or pillar. It's amazing how much more you will see. Bintel sells a solid one but you can make your own. There are recipes on the 'Net.

Aperture: minimum of 50mm is converntional wisdom for astronomical use (though you can see some things nicely with 35mm). 60mm is good and still manageable without mechanical support.

Eyepieces/prisms: wide angle is really valuable, but sharpness to the edge is often hard to find. The wider the angle, the more impressive the view will be for extended targets like the Milky Way and comets.

Focusing: dual focusing (both eyes focused at once) is valuable and an individual adjustment for one eyepiece is essential as each eye focuses slightly differently.

Lens anti-reflection coating: the vogue seems to be for those red lenses, but if they reflect red, you're losing brightness. Ideally the coating should make the lenses invisible!

A screw thread socket is present on most binocs so that you can attach them to a tripod or other mount. Very useful.

Magnification: depends on how you're going to use them. If hand held, 7 to 10x (max. 12x). If on tripod, higher mags are good. Zoom eyepieces are almost always a compromise but do allow multiple uses.

Monster binoculars: If you only want to use them in one place, the "monster" 4-inch binocs (Saxon, Andrews etc) are amazing, but incredibly heavy and need a BIG mount. (They are also extremely expensive compared to "normal" binocs.) I bought a Unistar standard mount from Universal Astronomics in the US - http://www.universalastronomics.com/ . The current Chinese mount (see http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm image at top left) looks better than the older one (same page, top right) which is unusable for astronomical work. However, I've not tested it. The UA mount is very robust.

Image stabilised binocs (eg Canon). A nice idea but super expensive and not really needed if you have a tripod mount.

One of the people in an astronomy class I teach bought a pair of (I think) 10x60 wide angle binocs from Andrews last year, for $99. The were very good and excellent value for money. But Andrews has such a zoo of binocs that I can't be sure exactly which model they were.

Bottom line: look at the stars with them before you buy, if at all possible. Check for internal reflections (Moon, Venus), sharp star images at centre and edge (if possible), minumum colour fringing about bright objects (Moon, Venus, eg). Collimation is of course essential (same image position for both eyes). If you get a cross-eyed feel when viewing, it may be the collimation is out.

Hope that helps.

[janoskiss]

Right. ;) That's what my most used pair is now: a pre-loved Pentax 8x40 PCF ~$90.

But I really thought those UpClose 10x50s were a capable binocular, surprisingly so for the price, and certainly miles ahead of the old (but still useful) second hand pair I started with (~$17 ebay). But I only had a quick look through the UpClose so who knows, it may have been wishful thinking. :ashamed: Next time I'm going to a dark site I'll try to borrow a pair and give them a more critical assessment.

[janoskiss]

Thanks DC. And :welcome: to IIS.

Those "Unimounts" that you can sit/lie under look great. I see they have Sirius Optics in QLD listed on the Dealers page. (although there is nothing about it on the SO website.)

[dcnicholls]

Thanks. IIS is an excellent site! (found thanks to Google).

You'd think something as heavy as a bino-mount would be impossibly expensive to get here from the US, but my Uni-star (for the monster binocs) wasn't that bad by air freight (US$60). The overall cost for something from UA equivalent to the Bintel "pantograph" bino-mount unit might be roughly the same. But making one yourself is much the cheapest option.

Also, something to stick the mount on (ie a tripod) can be quite expensive for big binocs. I already had the Chinese tripod that came with the monster binocs. Frankly it's not quite up to the job (it lurches when you slew the binocs rapidly in azimuth!) and one of these days (when funds permit) I might buy the big wooden Surveyor tripod that Larry at UA recommends for the big binocs.

The Bintel pantograph used to be sold w/o a tripod and a medium size Manfrotto unit works well. It appears they're only available with tripod now (http://www.bintel.com.au/BintelBinomount.html )

DN