Saxon Eyepieces

[Monstar]

Hi all,

Astropete is now selling a range of Saxon EPs that I haven't seen before. I wondered if anyone has used them?

Or, are they 'clones' if so what are they clones of and are they any good?

http://www.astropetes.com.au/accessories.html

Cheers.

[mental4astro]

Hi Johnny,

These Saxon eyepieces are "clones" of the TMB Planetary Type II. When Thomas Black ('M' is the initial of his middle name) passed away a few years ago, the company that was contracted to manufacture the eyepieces for his company (and of his design), they gave the bird to the contract and started selling these eyepieces to whoever wanted them. This happened to all the TMB eyepiece lines, including the much lorded Paragon line.

Today, these same eyepieces go by many different names, but they are all essentially the same. And they are still very good eyepieces as they were when made under the proprietary contract. What made these eyepieces revolutionary in the day was Black's clever design and use of specific glass types, and these designs were also easy to manufacture, which is why they were not expensive then for the image punch they packed.

Original better than clone? Me, I don't think so. Here's the clue as to why:
Both the Paragon and the Planetary Type II both had optical flaws in them that made some of the individual eyepiece models better suited to some telescope designs over others. The 30mm Paragon is not well suited to fast Newtonians, but the 40mm is. The 6mm Type II was the weakest in the whole line, and the clones today also have this. Some people say there is a difference. The original branded ones are no longer produced, only clones (not a good description as they are not a copy but the same original design and manufacturer). Some people say they can see a difference, but I question that (I could be mistaken, but this needs a sincere blind testing of the two lots). I fear it may be a case of brand prejudice than objective viewing. Maybe with some of the copy lines there may be when a particular brand orders a run of eyepieces produced under their own badge and specifically seek cheaper coatings and what not - which makes no sense as the manufacturing costs of these eyepieces are so low anyway. Most changes to the eyepieces are just cosmetic, like silver barrels rather than matt black, or a different design to the body.

Are these Saxon eyepieces good? Yes they are. Like I mentioned above, the 6mm is the only one I would give a miss to. I have the 9mm and the 6mm copies - the 9mm stays in my eyepiece case, the 6mm not. In fact, I can see fainter stars in the 9mm than in my 8mm Vixen LVW which costs 5X as much and is considered one of the best eyepieces in the world. EDIT: I should also mention that the LVW is ever so slightly sharper in image than the TMB, but more elements comes at the cost of lower transmission. So price is not everything, but you need to do your research. They are not expensive, AND are head and shoulders above cheap short focal length plossls.

How can you tell if you have an original TMB Planetary Type II or a rip-off when the two EP bodies are of the same original design? The TMB original has the focal length noted as "mm", the other "MM". That's pretty much all as everything else, box, caps, type set, branding, is all the same.

Oh, I do stand by my words as I've also recently ordered a new 4MM TMB Type II from China. I had placed an ad in the IIS 'wanted' section for either an original or copy - I am not concerned as either will be just fine for me. If I had known AstroPete had them, I would have ordered it from him... :rolleyes:

Alex.

[brian nordstrom]

Well said Alex , I have a couple of Baader Hyperion's and an observing buddy has a full set of the 'Clones' Saxon branded and his are almost identical to look at , just a few cosmetic differences and testing these side by side with my Hyperion's optically they are indistinguishable from one another , we both find the Saxon's as good in every way especially the 17mm , its a great one .

We have tried them in some very high quality refractors from f5 - f8 .
Also be aware that this line is quite a big and heavy eyepiece .
Brian.

[Monstar]

Thanks Alex and Brian, all very interesting, I think I read something about TMB splitting after his death but didn't really understand it then when I was just beginning. I'm after something around 13mm how do you think it would go in my 130p f5? I have the 4mm of the SKyWatcher UWAs above it on that page and although it is good I don't think I'd actually go out of my way to recommend it. It really darkens the image (even on Jupiter at 3am this morning) and you have to get your eye in the exact position. But the view is good when you get it right and I also think that is about as high as you can go 162x with my scope without atomospherics starting to degrade the image.

Alex I think Pete has probably only just got them in, I normally check his site about once a week.

[mental4astro]

Johnny, the 4mm is not darkening the image. You are asking a lot from any eyepiece to magnify so much, and every eyepiece of that focal length only has so much light from a small field that it can use. The image is 'dark' because that's all that's available from that area with that scope. I have exactly the same situation with all of my high power eyepieces, and something I have encountered always. When I'm doing a lunar sketch, and I chance upon a very stable night when I can really up the magnification to my 5mm, it always strikes me just how dark the image has become from the lower magnifications I was just using before. I am using a 8" SCT too. As I don't get to use the 5mm very often at all, I next to always first think "What the heck have I done here!..." Then I remember what eyepiece I'm using, :doh:

It is interesting to note that you find eye placement is more finicky with it. Not something I particularly noticed with my ones, but I might just be more accustomed to them.

With respects to a 13mm, good eyepieces in that focal length that don't cost the earth, perform well in a fast Newtonian & are easy to use eye relief wise are desperately short in numbers. The one I am happy to recommend is the GSO 15mm Superview. Bintel has the same one with their badge on it. I have this EP too. Sure there are better eyepieces than this one, for the price I don't think it can be beat. If you are price sensitive, then this modest little EP is a gem! :) While I may not use mine too often, it is one EP that I won't be giving up.

I've just had another look at the Astro Pete's site. I see they carry the Saxon 'Super Wide Angle' line of eyepieces. These are rebadged Baader Hyperions and are designed to be used with SCT's and Mak's - they are NOT a good optical match for Newtonians! Brian mentioned that he got a good image with these in refractors - this is so because the shape of the focal plane that refractors, SCT's and Mak's all produce is the same concave shape. Newtonians produce a convex shaped focal plane, so the Hyperions will not respond well to this. The only exception to this is the 5mm, which is terrific in my fast Newtonians and my SCT. NOTE: I am not writing off the Hyperions, not by the least. You just need to be aware that not all eyepiece designs will work equally well in all scope designs. If you have an SCT or a Mak, Hyperions, and their variants, are really good! :)

This lesson with the Hyperions cost me a bomb to learn, :( , but it opened my eyes to the poorly understood aspect of matching optics with optics, and that different EPs work best in certain scopes - even in the one product line there can be significant differences between individual models! The Pentax XW line is one of these!

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup:You are right there Alex about the superview's they are a jem of an eyepiece , especially the 15 and 20mm's .

I have 2 cases full of TelVue's there are Radian's , Panopics and Naglers and have put my 15mm SV against my 14mm Rdian and the 20mm SV against my 19mm Pan and for the price ( 1/10th ) these SV's always surprise ! , I like you Alex wont be giving mine up soon either , I don't know how they do it :shrug: for the asking price . I use my SV's for outreach , it does not matter if someone ( child :) ) puts an ice cream covered finger on the eye lens of the 15mm SV , just wipe it of and carry on ,, not so flash if it happens to a $300 + TV Panoptic
:eyepop:
Yes a nice 15mm SV is what you want .

Oh yes on the Saxon WA's these perform excellently in my C9.25 .

Brian.

[Monstar]

Wow GSO Superviews $39 and $49 at Andrews, may well look into those lol

Any other cheap (price wise, not manufacture wise) gems to look for for my 130p f5?

[Sylvain]

You could have a look on eBay, there a few good deals to be had!

[La_Displuke]

I use the saxon range you are talking about as well as a lot of my group.
They are fantastic and you won't be disappointed.

[shutterhigh]

Hi all,

I heard saxon and skywatcher are coming from the same factory, so for eyepieces alone, can i expect both of them are almost the same?

[dannat]

yes most stuff from those 2 brands is produced by synta - a group of factories in china

"I think I read something about TMB splitting after his death " -this involves licensing. copyright patents, astronomics & the family -also the fact china could care less about what patents are, who has taken them out etc.