Shopping overseas

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi all,

I have just read this recent article on CNet Australia and thought I would post it here:

http://www.cnet.com/au/news/online-shopping-package-forwarding-from-the-us-to-australia/

Australian retail stores need to lift their game, and start to respect their customers, if they are going to compete. I am finding service in Australia is becoming mediocre, at best, in nearly all cases.

I don't mind paying more for something, and supporting Australian businesses, as long as the service is superior, but that isn't the case any more, as more and more Australian companies are becoming complacent. Why should I pay more here, if my business isn't respected?

Fortunately, there are some great suppliers overseas for astro gear, with some good pricing, despite the freight costs, and the freight time is fairly quick too. I placed an order yesterday with OPT and it will be here Monday. It takes longer to get something from Sydney, unless you pay extra for overnight delivery.

Cheers Peter

[LewisM]

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=128106

[Stardrifter_WA]

So what :question: Different services being discussed here Lewis. :)

[FlashDrive]

Quite right Peter .... some business places don't come up to ' par ' at all now in AU.
I've been shopping O/Seas because of this very ' attitude ' .

Flash.....

[PeterEde]

I have saved $900 on a single purchase over an Aus store once. Not astro related. $900 is big bucks and I'll continue to do so if Aus stores keep ripping off consumers

[Stardrifter_WA]

From a dollar perspective, I have saved a bucket load, over what is charged here, even with the freight and tax added. I saved about the same on my WO110, buying it straight from WO, when they had a special price, and I got a field flattener too, thrown in. Only reason I bought it when I did....the price was too good to say no. :D

[Renato1]

Just make sure, when given the option, to avoid freight companies like FedEx.

Else you can be guaranteed that if some tax is liable - which used to be a hit and miss affair when the parcel came in through regular post - as part of its service, FedEx would charge you the tax on behalf of the government, as well as a fee for having collected the tax and passing it on.

They may well be constrained to do so, but I always tried to get the regular postal services, who seemed to be less finicky.
Regards,
Renato

[Ric]

Some companies in australia think they have a licence to rip off the consumer.

I recently bought a leather satchel from an english company for $146 with free postage, an excellent quality item and delivered in 7 days, 2 of which was a weekend.

The closest item in Australia was $495 plus $30 for postage. They also stated that it could take up to 10 days for delivery.

I agree, a lot of companies really need to lift their game.

[dannat]

i think often the price diff is not the end retailer's fault -but rather the licensed supplier/importer of whatever brand of goods you are talking about...
i know bicycle parts are expensive in stores -the UK companies selling stuff at really cheap prices have no store -& directly drop ship from Asia..keeping post prices right down, one dealer i spoke to said he cant't buy the goods off the bike parts manufacturer for what it retailed for online..what hope did he have

[N1]

The local (and physical) bike shop in Tahmoor isn't too bad price wise when compared to Europe. In fact, any bits I need for the bike I have in NZ I get from him & take them over. He recently dug out a new/unused mid 90s 5-bolt STX chainring for me, which I wouldn't even know where to start looking on line.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi Ric,

I am not sure that we are being 'ripped off', as such, by local retailers, it is more a case that it is expensive to conduct retail in Australia, however, it often feels that way though. I know of cases where the Aussie company cannot buy it at the price overseas retailers sell it for, go figure! Probably more to do with bulk discounts and higher volumes. I know volume discounts can be quite amazing, but we just don't have those volumes in Australia. There are many factors that affect price, so it isn't as easy as saying we are being ripped off. On other occasions, that is true.

I recently bought a high end measuring tool and in Australia the retail store wanted over $600 for it, which seemed fair, however, at that price I wouldn't have bought it. I simply didn't want it that much. :P

Looking online, and overseas, one dealer in the US had the exact same item at USD1,129 (which seemed close to the average price). How does that work then? On that price it was cheaper in Australia.

Looking further, I found it for a price that I consider worthwhile, although I thought the price was too good to be true. I ordered it at AUD120, and expected to get the usually response, can't ship to Australia, but they did ship, so I am happy. Sometimes, not asking questions is a good thing. I never ask if they will ship, just order it and hope that they ship it. :D A lot of the time they say no, but occasionally it simply comes through.

Cheers Peter

[Slawomir]

Contrary to what CNET states, I always got charged about 10% tax for any astro gear above $1000 US, and deliveries were made by FedEx, UPS and USPS.

For example, just a few weeks ago I bought a camera directly from QSI quietly hoping it will be cheaper than buying from an Australian dealer..it was not.

Just today I also looked at getting filters directly from Astrodon and also asked for a quote from an Australian dealer; the difference in price was literally a few dollars per filter (a single filter costs over $650).

From my experience, astro gear bought overseas is not cheaper, at least not now nor in the past year or so. It might have been different when Aussie dollar was stronger.

[Stardrifter_WA]

The sum of $2,500 mentioned in that article under Customs is not for the tax free threshold but is for having to complete a Shipper's Export Declaration (SED) form. Any amount over $2500, has to be declared on the SED, for any item shipped item out of the US that exceeds USD 2,500.

The tax free threshold of $1,000 is for taxation when it arrives here. Anything under that limit, which includes freight, is not charged tax or Customs clearance.

As for astro gear not being cheaper overseas, is not necessarily true, although the dollar falling may make that the case for a lot of things. However, there are still significant differences, that make it worthwhile.

The biggest factor is that you have little choice who you deal with here, as there is a definite lack of competition, particularly when it comes to astro gear. My primary supply used to be an Australian company, but I refuse to deal with them now, so I had little choice but to look to overseas suppliers. This is not an uncommon occurrence either, from anecdotal evidence and personal experience.

Australian companies need to be much more respectful to their customers if they are to retain the business. It isn't all about price!

[Slawomir]

Thank you for clarifying that. :thanx:

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that tax needs to be accounted for when considering buying astro-gear above $1000 US to avoid disappointment.

Experience taught me that each astro item (above $1000 US) I bought directly from a manufacturer ended up costing about the same as if buying from an Australian dealer.

[codemonkey]

Exactly. It's unfortunate here that it often seems there's no real competition because there's only some amount of cross-over in the stock that the retailers sell. Often when I want something I can only find one place that sells it, and frequently it's a particular retailer that I hate dealing with because of their attitude. One recent case I couldn't even buy it from overseas (without using a freight forwarder which doubled the cost of the item) because I couldn't find anywhere that shipped to Australia.

As pointed out by numerous people above, it's not always the retailer, which is sad. Some of them are doing the best they can but that's still not good enough.

[Stardrifter_WA]

I am interested to know what you are buying that is coming out around the same price as here, although you did give one example of filters. I do agree that with some items, that definitely is the case. An example is Televue eyepieces, which are, essentially, the same price here, when you add the freight component. However, a special recently offered on Televue Delos eyepieces by OPT resulted in a $50 saving over that offered by the local distributor, and that included the freight cost too. Which also doesn't include the extra $10 I would have paid to ship from Sydney to Perth, when buying it in Australia. There was no tax or clearance involved as my order was under a grand. I don't know about you but a $50+ saving is significant, particularly since I refuse to deal with the local retailer. And the really sad thing is, they have lost significant business, as I never cared about cost, as I used to buy Nagler eyepieces from that retailer when the dollar was at 74c against the US currency (and I still have the receipts to prove it). Now that my business isn't respected here, my main criteria is cost. Why not, if my custom isn't respected, why should I support them.

Furthermore, on reflection to a previous statement, it won't matter what the dollar is, as the cost of local suppliers will rise in line with the fall in the dollar anyway, so that will balance out. Although, that doesn't include changes in the cross rates with other currencies. Where I am winning at present is that I had made an educated guess and bought USD ahead of the fall.

In the past twelve months, and not including items that I cannot purchase here anyway, I have made many overseas purchases, and in nearly every case, I have made some small or significant savings, and furthermore, I have been treated with a great deal more respect with the overseas suppliers, now that I have established a relationship.

It will also depend on where you are looking for prices too, as I rarely accept prices at face value and look for further discounts. But, I realise that not everyone has the skills to bargain, or indeed, the bargaining power that I have obtained. Getting the best price has, for the most part, become a game for me. The hard part with that game is that often you can only get a particular item from one place, so they can ask a premium. But I still ask for a better price though. You may be surprised how many times that I do get a better price by asking for it. This is particularly important where you have a lot of competition for business. But, I have to admit, I have also been caught too. In a recent purchase I bought an item from the US for $89, after seeing it in S&T, and after getting it, and seeing it, I discovered that I could get the exact same item from eBay for $18, with free postage. Unfortunately, in this case, I paid a premium due to ignorance about the item. I ordered a second unit off eBay. Fortunately, this only happens rarely, but it is an example that you can pay too much sometimes. You live and learn.

Sometimes the savings are small, however, sometimes the saving are significant. I saved nearly a grand by buying my WO 110 FLT direct from WO, but I admit, I took advantage of a special being offered. Nothing I need, I need urgently, so I can bide my time until a special price comes along. And there always specials being offered somewhere in the world.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Lee (codemonkey) I have sent you a pm.

The other issue is that retailers here don't stock the more exotic items, as it just isn't economical to stock specialist items. However, they could do better in obtaining these special items for customers. They have lost sight that sometimes items can be a nuisance to obtain, and even though it may not be economical, they lose sight of the bigger picture in as much as keeping an important client happy. It is hard to gain a loyal client and so easy to lose when you don't respect that client.

I spend many thousands of dollars on discretionary items and I expect superior service, I expect a company to be enthusiastic for my business, right or wrong. It is my money and I have the right to choose where I spend it, they do not have a right to my business, and this seems to be a problem with business today, e.g. "we are the distributor, you have to buy it from us". Wrong! I don't have to buy it at all.

When I was working in business, I treated ever client as important, as you just never know how important that client may become. Even if a client only spent $1000, and if he had a really great experience, he might send another person there who also spends $1000, and so on. It only take a 1000 customers spending a thousand each before you reach a million.

My real beef with Australia companies, including astro retailers isn't about price, it is about service. So many people now accept mediocre service as being great service. If I have to pay more, I actually don't have a problem with that, to a point, but I do expect a superior level of service for paying that extra price.

Cheers Peter

[Stardrifter_WA]

Yes, freight, tax and clearance costs need to be taken into consideration, as does warranty.

In regard to warranty, items are expensive to ship back to point of sale from Australia, particularly large items, and that seriously needs to be taken into consideration. This is the reason, with certain items, I would only ever purchase locally. For instance, I would never buy a telescope with electronics, such as my Celestron SCT, from overseas. The cost of returning it overseas, for warranty, is astronomical (no pun intended), furthermore, there are then the added clearance cost on its return. And, I might add, there is Ciustoms paperwork that has to be completed when sending items overseas for repair, otherwise you may incur taxes on top of the clearance costs.

However, many items, including tax and clearance costs are still cheaper overseas. I recently did an analysis, when there was talk about removing the tax free threshold. I still found, in many cases, the 10% tax still made it viable to purchase overseas. I made a submission to the minister in this regard, as it is stupid to charge tax on low value items, when it is more expensive to collect that tax, than what the tax would raise.

However, the real issue for me now, is that I have noticed an increase in the clearance costs, as they have risen quite a bit over the past few years. But, this can be mitigated by bringing in several items at once, thus spreading the clearance costs over these several items.

If I cannot keep items below the threshold, I wait and added all the items into one shipment.

[Slawomir]

The equipment I was referring to included a TS doublet, QSI camera, Moonlite focuser and filters. In each case I could have gotten the same or equivalent product for a very similar price. However, I must admit I do not regret buying overseas, as waiting time can be actually shorter by buying directly from a manufacturer and there is less handling involved.
I agree that the best way is to do your homework thoroughly before buying anything, and if possible wait for a discount.
I hope this thread has perhaps helped a few local astronomers in making an informed decision, as it did clarify a few things for me :-)

Clear skies

[Stardrifter_WA]

Interestingly Slawomir, I went to order some stuff today from the US, only to discover that this item has gone up in price in the US, since the last time I bought them, and it is now cheaper to buy it locally, by around $2.00 each. I used to buy them much cheaper in the US, even taking postage into account.

On checking the items you were talking about I see your point.

Cheers Peter