PDA

View Full Version here: : What can we learn from narrowband filters?


Placidus
19-11-2014, 02:26 PM
G'day,

What can we amateurs learn about the astrophysics of an object using say 3nM H-alpha, OIII, SII, and NII filters?

I understand the basic physics of say the Balmer series, forbidden transitions, excitation by photons versus shock energy. I broadly understand that material ejected from the surface of primordial stars will be mostly H/He, while material dredged up or exploded from the very depths of 3rd generation stars will contain more "metals" and therefore O, S, and N (without which one cannot see OIII, SII, and NII emissions).

Putting it together a tiny bit, H-alpha is easy to find, because it will show the location of fairly dense gas excited by even modest UV, since the relevant excited state is easy to produce, and the relevant transition occurs very quickly before thermal collisions destroy it. Conversely, OIII, SII, and NII emission will require several things: the presence of dredged up or older or more processed material, more energetic UV to produce the required excited state, and very low gas pressure so that collisions don't destroy the state before the forbidden transition occurs.

Putting it together a tiny bit more, that would explain why we find OIII emission closer to a white dwarf, WR, or OB star, where there's plenty of hard UV, whereas H-alpha predominates further out. Similar arguments might explain why we find utterly negligible SII in the outermost shock fronts of the Norma Bipola Nebula, but we find more SII in some PN's (eg dumbell) and some SNR's (eg Pencil Nebula).

When we actually go out there and start photographing, we find that OIII is ubiquitous, but SII and NII are pretty hard to find, and need very long exposures. Why? What, in more detail, do they tell us, that might make it worth the amateur's while to bother?

Anyone know any good books (or people) that can (gently) take me the next steps in understanding that are relevant to what we can photograph without a high resolution spectrograph?

Anyone know any objects (or lists of objects) that are especially rewarding or informative to photograph in SII or NII?

Best,
Mike

sjastro
20-11-2014, 11:22 AM
Hi Mike,

It's no coincidence the relative abundances of H, He, O, N and S decreases as the number of protons increases in the nucleus. This is due to the nuclear binding energy decreasing as one goes from O to S.
The more protons in a nucleus the greater amount of energy required for nuclear fusion to overcome the Coulomb barrier due to the electrostatic repulsion of the protons.
The other reason why S for example is rare is that there is no direct fusion process. The formation of S nuclei is through a complicated alpha process requiring a number of preliminary steps for fusion amongst lighter nuclei.
The more complicated the fusion process the probability of the formation of the end product is decreased.
Hence SII emissions are faint simply because there are fewer S atoms.

On an imaging front SIIRGB imaging is comparatively rare but potentially rewarding.
Since the SII filter passes longer wavelengths than Ha, OIII and NII, filters, it can potentially penetrate deeper into planetary and emission nebulae.

Here is a SIIRGB of the Eta Carina nebula. The structure surrounding Eta is enhanced when compared to HaRGB images.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjastro/etaSIIc.html

Regards

Steven

Merlin66
20-11-2014, 11:56 AM
Mike,
Not sure what you want to achieve - pretty pictures in "different" wavelength colours 0r to use your filters as Photometric filters?

The particular emissions of nebulae are controlled by the local conditions and any intervening dust. Most of the WR/ Be stars as well as nova give emissions due to the interaction of dust/ gas shells, but at the resolution of the filters (30A) you will not record the detail, just the macro intensities, hence the use of Photometric filters and magnitude studies.

As you say, the scientific method is to use a spectroscope - or even a low resolution grating.
Kaler's "Stars and their Spectra" makes a good starting point.
Also check out Richard Walker's Spectral atlas and explanatory notes.
http://www.ursusmajor.ch/astrospektroskopie/richard-walkers-page/index.html
(down the bottom rhs for English)

xelasnave
20-11-2014, 12:00 PM
Wow just like being there.
Wonderful.

xelasnave
20-11-2014, 12:00 PM
Wow just like being there.
Wonderful.

Placidus
20-11-2014, 12:12 PM
Thanks for the explanation Steve, and for the superb photo. I can see that some of the really bright favourites is a place to explore SII and NII.

Placidus
20-11-2014, 02:10 PM
Ken,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am very much hoping that there is a third option. Pretty pictures implies a total lack of understanding of what one is looking at, or, put another way, that the pictures are totally lacking in information content, that all the coffee table books and shots published by NASA and ESO are devoid of information, and just a con. I don't believe that.

Even in monochrome, we can see dust lanes, super-bubbles, shock fronts, cometary knots, collimated jets and HH objects, so the pictures are not just pretty abstract paintings.

I mentioned when posing my question that the relative distributions of H-alpha and OIII seem to tell us quite a lot about what we are looking at.

I should like to know whether the morphological distributions of SII and NII relative to the others tells us anything extra, and if so, what.

I have read Kaler, and believe that I understand him. But he does not specifically address my questions: what kinds of objects are especially rich in SII or NII? What does that tell us? Name some objects?

Best,
Mike

Merlin66
20-11-2014, 02:43 PM
Mike,
As Steven has said, the heavier "metals" need more energy to ionise...
This leads to high energy environments being required and an initial source of the "metals"
The best I can offer you is Jonathan Tennyson's "Astronomical Spectroscopy" - An introduction to the atomic and molecular Physics of astronomical spectra. See Chapter 7 - The spectra of nebulae.

Merlin66
20-11-2014, 03:03 PM
I did a search in Gray & Corbally "Stellar Spectral Classification"...
interestingly neither the SII or NII lines show up in WR or any of emission stars....
I can only find references to these lines in some Nova listings and a few nebulae.

Placidus
20-11-2014, 09:32 PM
Thanks Ken. All three of your comments and the references are helpful. Best, Mike.

sjastro
21-11-2014, 11:59 AM
Thanks for the comments on the image.



Hi Ken.
Heavier metals require more energy to overcome the Coulomb barrier for fusion of the parent nuclei. Ionization is the removal of electrons from atoms.



Interestingly while the Ha and NII emission lines overlap in wider band Ha filters (Ha=656.3 and NII doublet 653.8 and 658.4), 3nm NII filters are used to enhance detail in certain planetary nebulae and Wolf Rayet bubbles when compared to Ha images.

The extreme outer extremities of the Dumbbell nebula show up better in NII as shown in the attachment.

Regards

Steven

Merlin66
21-11-2014, 12:05 PM
Steven,
I had difficulty finding references to NII in WR/ nebulae, but found numerous NIII hits.
Do you have any spectra data links?
Thanks,
Ken

Merlin66
21-11-2014, 12:59 PM
http://www.astrosurf.com/brego-sky/A_glimpse_to_the_night_sky/Articles_files/what_is.pdf

This looks like an article of interest to the narrowband imagers....

sjastro
21-11-2014, 02:56 PM
Ken,

Here are two.
A "way out" example of an x-binary system in M101 involving a Black Hole and a W-R star.

Spectrum of W-R star:- http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v503/n7477/images/nature12762-f1.jpg
Article:- http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v503/n7477/abs/nature12762.html

Spectrum of M27.

Here NII is referred to as the singly ionized N(+1).
http://mais-ccd-spectroscopy.com/images/wpe26.jpg

Regards

Steven

Merlin66
21-11-2014, 03:31 PM
http://www.atnf.csiro.au/research/LVmeeting/magsys_pres/Mag_07_Madsen.pdf

Interesting "challenges" for southern observers??