UFO Encounter

[Duke1966]

15th November 2014

On a friday night in November or December,I was sitting in my car along with my girl friend at the Chelsea beach.
We noticed a green light moving from position to position way out at sea,as if it were looking for something and at times not moving at all.

I started to flicker the head lights of my car on and off to try to get it's attention,which after about 15minutes it did.
The craft started coming towards us at about the speed of a small aeroplane. I took care in noticing the object,it was dark metallic in colour,round and like a flying saucer.

I saw the object to be approximately 80 centre meters in length in the sky which I think would have been at least 120 to 160 meters in size.
May be more…Not Sure…It also had two antennas,one at the front and the other at the rear.
It had two lights,one was green,and the other was white attached to the antenna's.

The UFO had oval shaped windows around it and from that side I counted 10 windows. I would assume if you looked at it from all angles,you would count at least 40 windows all around.
The colour of the windows were white,I tried very hard to see if I could notice anything behind them but could not.
The UFO flew over head at about 45 to 60 degrees angle from where we were observing it from,heading towards in land and over Neapean Highway.

We stayed there a bit longer and noticed it flying back out towards the sea,heading back to where it came from. This time it was at a lower altitude and saw larger than before.
I wound my window down to try to listen to any engine noise,but all I could hear was the noise of air flow,the same noise as you would hear from a air conditioner duct.

I don't know which friday it was, but next morning we heard that hundred's of people saw it at Frankston the same night as we did.
People were being interviewed on the radio station,I remember one police officer had seen it as well and he was also interviewed.
This encounter had nothing to do with the Westall sightings that event took place in April.

I will remember this encounter always as I remember saying to my self it happened not long after the Melbourne Cup had been won by a famous horse. I'm not sure of the year and the name of the horse but the only most famous one at the time was"GALILEE" and that I would never forget it. He won the cup in 1966. I'm assuming it happened then.
I would appreciate if any one else saw this encounter as well because I can't seem to find any information of this event ever took place.

I guess I will have to go to the Melbourne State Library and search the archives.

Duke 1966!!

[PCH]

Jeepers Jen, - chill a bit. At least this is to do with space! You seemed happy enough to debate endlessly the rights and wrongs of our attitudes towards gays, *******s and transgenders recently! Surely a much less clear connection with astronomy!

Why would you then shout this guy down on his first post, which is after all, about an associated topic - which HAS been discussed before.

Let's show the new guy a bit of decorum hey :)

[wayne anderson]

This subject was discussed here in June 2010 and had links to other sites with information, there was apparently a foxtel documentary on this on 4/6/2010 and channel 7 also had a doco on this called the westwall incident.


http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=62000


Like many here, over my life I have spent possibly 100,s or 1000,s of hours looking into the night sky and never once have I seen a UFO, but many people believe they have, maybe its like fishing I never seem to catch one but many near me do, or maybe its like a good fishing story the big ones always seem to get away.

[OICURMT]

Man, I see them all the time... then I load up Stellarium to see what I saw... :thumbsup:

[csb]

Yep, this is General Chat. All topics welcome.

UFO? I'll believe it when I see it.

For me, the biggest "evidence" that UFOs have never been seen is that there is no verifiable (non-blurry) photographic proof of them.

I believe when many people gave witnessed the same UFO sighting, that they are ALL truly mistaken.

It is also interesting that UFO sightings have become virtually non-existant in this age of phone cameras & CCTV.

[N1]

And what will that mean for the rest of us, who have not seen it?

:scared3:

[Astroman]

I have seen some strange things during my time of observing, a couple witnessed by my wife and my Sister also. Were they UFO's, well yes they were unidentified Flying Objects of some form or another. Still to this day they are unexplained.

[LewisM]

I have seen around 4 sightings I simply cannot explain. I worked as a pilot for 20 years - never saw anything unidentifiable during day ops, nor even once at night whilst flying. BUT,over 20 or so years of observing the night sky terrestrially bound, I have seen 4 objecrts/lights that I could not explain - including one recent sighting this year I reported here.

Do I think them green men from Archeron? No, but I have NO idea what they were except they were in the sky, lights, and moving - some randomly, some on particular courses.

[csb]

You will be left behind!:abduct:

P.S. Your comment was very astute.

[julianh72]

I have seen lots of things in my 50+ years that people around me interpreted as UFOs, but which were easily explained, and once I explained, all the other observers concurred - satellites, Venus, unusual cloud formations, etc. (Well, almost all concurred - once or twice there were a couple of "died in the wool" UFO believers who could not be swayed, despite the evidence.)

However, I have two sightings that lasted several minutes each, and despite my best efforts, I and those around me could not explain them away - until after quite a few minutes of observing, when the truth revealed itself.

Incident 1:
I was walking with a few friends along Sherwood Road at about 8:00 pm, which is a straight undulating road near Rocklea Markets in Brisbane - this would have been about 1975, and back then the land was grazing paddocks, with hardly any nearby illumination, but today is heavily trafficked, with lots of industrial lights etc. We saw a classic illuminated UFO shape appear on the horizon ahead of us, coming silently towards us, rising and falling as it came. We watched closely for what seemed at the time like a couple of minutes, but was probably only 30 seconds or so, and were getting quite alarmed as it approached, because it seemed to be seeking us out - we were just about to run for cover when ...
See if you can guess what it REALLY was, before scrolling down for what it turned out to be.

Incident 2:
A few years later (around 1980 perhaps), I and several other amateur astronomers were setting up our telescopes on the Scarborough shoreline (near Brisbane) just after sunset, but well before dark. A mysterious flashing light appeared some distance offshore - we judged it to be half a kilometre or so away, and at an elevation of 50 to 100 metres or so, but it was hard to be sure, as it moved very erratically, and appeared and disappeared quite abruptly. We watched this for several minutes, in which time it moved up and down the shoreline by a kilometre or so in each direction, before it crossed the shore more or less overhead, when it revealed itself to be ...










Incident 1:
It was an unoccupied taxi cab; the rooftop "For Hire" dome light was illuminated, but the road undulations meant the headlights stayed below our line of sight as the cab approached us, so all we saw was a brightly illuminated UFO rising and falling a metre and a half above the ground as it approached. The fact that we were getting quite alarmed as it approached probably meant we were ducking down, aiding the illusion until the cab crested the last rise just a hundred metres or so away from us.

Incident 2:
As many of you may have already guessed, this was one of the classic UFO sightings - a flock of seagulls that were catching the last rays of sunlight, while we were standing in semi-darkness. Because of the light conditions, when the birds wheeled away from us, they disappeared altogether, but when they turned so as to present the underside of their wings towards us, we saw a brilliant flash of reflected sunlight.

Both events are absolutely humdrum everyday occurrences, but were very convincing UFOs with the right light and observing conditions.

Bottom line: Yes, i believe there are other intelligent civilisations out there somewhere - but I don't believe any of them are visiting us!

[Hans Tucker]

I could be wrong and mis- reading the :p emoticon but I think csb is blowing you a raspberry.

On topic...UFO's do exists...the debate and question is are their origin extraterrestrial

[jenchris]

ever tried taking a piccie after dark with a phone camera.?
I wish you more success than I've had.

[julianh72]

But what ever happened to all the ufos (and Loch Ness monsters, sasquatch, etc) that used to visit in daylight hours, that were poorly captured on film by a select few people who supposedly just happened to have a still camera or movie camera handy? Isn't it odd that nowadays when we all carry a HD still / video camera in our pocket, the apparitions seem to be much rarer?

Hmm...

[iceman]

I've cleaned up this thread a bit.

While this thread wasn't the worst example I've seen, it did highlight a recurring trend among some people to 'shoot down' any newcomer who posts something that is 'against the norm'.
Sarcastic and sometimes outright rude replies to newcomers, regardless of the topic, are certainly not the spirit in which this forum was created and nurtured over the past 10 years.

Try re-reading your post before you press Reply - and if there's any chance you might be sounding like an arse, don't post!

And of course this advice isn't just limited to threads started by newcomers - it's advice that can be used all day every day! :)

[csb]

Thanks Julian for demonstrating how ordinary things can become distorted especially through atmospherics. I've also had a couple of things I have seen that caused me to wonder but they did not come close enough to be revealed. But I doubt they were extraterrestial.

I also believe other intelligent life is out there and that they are probably human.

(Thanks Hans, well spotted. I wonder why didn't the emoticon show?)

[csb]

We should probably get back to Duke1966.

Welcome Duke. Sorry for the odd reception.

So was the info and link posted by Wayne helpful? Was it the same occurrence you mentioned?

[TrevorW]

"The truth is out there" :ship2::ship1::welcome:

[OzStarGazer]

Absolutely. It is a pretty big universe. We just haven't found it yet.

:welcome:, Duke!

[PCH]

For my two bobs worth, simple maths and probability tells us we are almost certainly not alone in the universe.

However, keeping in mind the distances involved, whether they'd go to all the trouble of travelling all this way over here at all, let alone to see us without bothering to make it absolutely clear they'd arrived, is a bit unlikely IMO.

And I understand they'd probably have different technology that might make distance not an issue. But if that were the case they'd be here all the time - right? I mean, if we wanted to know about the moon and it were only in the next suburb, we'd be there having a squiz and sucking it dry in no time.

Just my 2c worth :)

[OzStarGazer]

Maybe they have seen enough and don't want to come back. We are not exactly an ideal planet in terms of solidarity etc.

[N1]

Here are some thoughts from NDGT on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0uV5d8tss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69qYusZyLrs

I'm sure it's been posted before, but it's very entertaining.

[OzStarGazer]

:)

PS: I hadn't seen it before...

[speach]

For a start off let me say that there is life and intelligent life in our galaxy leave alone all the other galaxies. To think that we are the only intelligent life in the universe is stupid and very arrogant. But to say that there are such things as UFO's that contain life which come down to look at us then fly off without contacting us is laughable, if not the product of a deranged mind. It belongs to the flat earthers and the people that see in the icing on a birthday cake a picture of christ weeping (christ is deliberately without a capital). Think of the resources that will have gone into this flight, even if that are so far advanced to that above light speed travel is possible it will still take a lot of resources , unless they have developed self teleportation. Now we really in cloud cuckoo land, but I find that more plausible, only just, then UFO's.
If it was us, that was doing the interstellar travel I'm sure that we would not leave without make some kind of contact, look at Voyager (7?) it's got a plaque on its side just in case it bumps into someone or something that can decipher it.
Too paraphrase Scrooge in 'A Christmas tale' "UFO's balderdash"!

[jenchris]

I think that one would slip into another dimension and then out of it close to your destination.
ftl transport is too expensive to contemplate.
If I was to visit here as an intelligent species, I'd put up a sign with do not enter, agressive and dangerous inhabitants. Leave for another 2000 years.

[OzStarGazer]

In 2000 years we might already have completely destroyed our planet. :(

[Duke1966]

The people who are none believers in UFO's, are the people who haven't had any encounters at all. They will continue to be none believers, but until they see one, they have that right. I happen to be lucky to have seen an encounter and to be in the right place at the right time.

You may never see one your whole life…But you have to keep trying.

Duke1966

[Duke1966]

Sorry Thread.

I haven't read the article, i haven't seen at all. What was said and where was it posted?

Would like to read.

Duke...

[csb]

Hi Duke

It is the 2nd reply after your original post about the incident. User name is Wayne Anderson.

[gaa_ian]

Like some of my fellow observers here I have had 100's of hour observing and no "Encounters"
However, this one (http://www.askthescienceguru.com/ufos-strange-blue-lights-nhulunbuy-nt) I could not explain.
I was there at the time it happened and someone in my vicinity saw it, but did not speak up soon enough, for me to have a look.
Space junk is still most likely, all things considered,k dispite an aparant 2nd appearance. I figure that once there is a "Sighting" people start looking up !

[pluto]

If you ever see the ISS moving East to West then they have a serious problem ;)

[astroron]

It was dark, yet you could see the colour of the object:question:
I have never seen the colour of an aircraft,except of being black in the dark.
This thing must have stopped in front of your eyes to give the details you present here.
I could not count the amount of windows on a 747 at that distance from me,which btw is about the size of the "UFO" in question going from your guestimate.
As an ex military man and working with aircraft for many years both at base and in the field, I could never give that sort of description of an aircraft in the dark. :question:
Why would a "UFO" have lights on the antannai:question:
And they just happen to be the same colours that a lot of aircraft have on them.:shrug:
I can forgive the passage of time on the memory,48 years or so, but there is a bit of information missing, such as time of night/how dark was it, how high was it?.
And how could you hear the wind swishing over the craft. ?
Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary facts, I see none here,just a good story.
I know I may get howled down on this,but I have noticed in the nearly 10 years on iceinspace, how every now and again a story like this appears
Which draws quite a bit of controversy, then the person who put the story here, disappears back into the ether, and lets every one fight it out among them selves.
With nearly 30 years observing under my belt and many more being out under the night sky, I have never observed anything that could not be explained, but just because it cannot be explained by me or other agencies does not mean it is extra terrestrial.
I was once told, and it has been alluded on this thread,if you don't believe you will never see one.:rolleyes:
Needless to say,I have never seen one. :sadeyes:
Just because a person is new here that doesn't preclude him/her from scrutiny if they present something that is purported as fact, it should be open to question in my opinion, not with snide remarks etc but with probing questions.
Just my 2 bobs worth:)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[OzStarGazer]

Apparently it was also discussed on Today Tonight not too long ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1CBouzER5o

I think this is also about the April 1966 event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmaAqmOAqKg

However the episode they described was in April 1966, not in November or December, as Duke says. He says it is not the same event.

[gaa_ian]

:rofl: :ship2:
Beam me up ISS (Inter Stellar Spaceship)
For the record, I believe there is bound to be life "Out There"
I do not believe "they" have been or ever will come "Here"
It defies known physics & there is no evidence.
But hey ... I could be wrong !

[Monstar]

I really dislike it when people immediately poo poo the idea that someone has seen something that is "Unidentified".

Im sure that if an intelligent being from another planet came to have a butchers at us they would want to keep themselves unidentified when they see how we treat each other and our planet home. They would soon realise that we don't like things we can't understand and that given the chance we'd probably try to catch or kill them.

When people immediately criticise and try to make out that the person who saw it is just after attention or must be mad they are just exhibiting this very human trait. They dismiss the idea offhand because they haven't witnessed it.

If you can prove something isn't what the witness thought it was fair enough. Otherwise I find it better to keep an open mind.

BTW I have never been witness to any such event and I'm not sure I'd like to, and whether you believe or not everyone has that right to their own opinions.

[astroron]

True,but if you put it on an open forum full of mainly Astronomers,then you should expect to be open to discussion, not just be believed and expect kudos and applause.
Otherwise in a court of law for instance every witness would be believed and basically we would get no where.
I would hazard a guess that there are more people out there who have NOT seen one than people who have.
I don't take stories about "UFO's" at face value and nor should I ,I want facts not fiction,and to me most of the stories are at best misinterpretation,and at worst pure fabrication, and BTW most of them have been proven the latter,with a few in the don't know basket.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[csb]

That is how to demonstrate rational & respectful scepticism.

I hope Duke will enter into the discussion. Although it can take courage to enter a den full of sceptics. Duke didnt receive a warm welcome and us sceptics jumped right in with our thoughts. Please remember this is not a adversarial discussion.

I also like to have stated facts of UFO sightings queried and clarified. I have been fascinated by UFO sightings since boyhood. I was always disappointed that the witnesses were not queried more indepth about their accounts.

[jenchris]

I was given this sign by a passing alien - he said he found it hanging about just outside the orbit of Neptune

[Monstar]

Ron, I was not saying that anyone was right or wrong and agree that if you you put something on a discussion forum you should expect arguments from both sides. What I was attemting to say was, in this topic especially, I don't like it when people immediately state that others opinions/views are hogwash just because they go against their own beliefs. And of course this also works the other way too, just because you may believe in aliens it doesn't mean every strange light in the sky is evidence that they exist.

Just my view ;0)

[gaa_ian]

Well folks, what ever we thinks as AA's with 10,000's of hour out under the night sky between us, the public LOVE this stuff !
I have access to the National Geo, Discovery and History channels ATM. I have watched Dozens of "Documentaries" on UFO's, Ancient Aliens, Lizard People etc ...etc
I am convinced, yes, there are some UFO's, these are well documented.
There is just no credible evidence that I have seen, that the UFO's are anything other than earth borne Manifestations, even if unexplained in some cases.
Great to hear your story Duke & welcome :-)

[jenchris]

The people I'd like to speak to are the astronauts.
They appear to have a completely different take on the presence or not of those not of this Earth.
Getting them to talk is another matter altogether.

[Duke1966]

Don't mock other people to what you have not seen. Sighting's of UFO's have been seen since the cave men. There are drawing's dating back BC.

[Duke1966]

To Astroron, Hi Ron, I guess we will always have the believers and the none believers on the subject's of UFO's as we do on sightings of Ghost's.

Until a person actually see's one, you won't believe. I know vividly what I saw on that particular night, I made a good mental memory of that occasion, as you do not see this sort of event happening everyday day in your life.
On that particular night it was a bright night, not a full moon, but it was a clear night that I could see the few small clouds in the sky, it was spring and a warm night at approximate time 10pm 10.30pm.
It was definitely NOT a plane. The windows of the craft that I seen were much larger that a 747 they were approximately the size of aluminum sliding house window of an
oval shape.
There was definitely lights on the both antenna's. Why? they are the same color as other air craft's I do not know. To me this was a UFO and therefore it is an aircraft, of some sort. ( Criticizing me about the amount of windows I see is not right and for you to question me. )

It was traveling at a very slow speed and a much lower altitude than an air craft, I only counted one side of this craft, I am assuming if you see all sides of this craft,
my estimation would be 40 windows in total.

Also I heard the swishing noise of air coming from this craft, not the sound of a motor as you would hear from a 747 or small airplane, as I had already mentioned this in my original post.
I am assuming they are far more advanced than we are and have other means of travel through space other than a motor.

Maybe the reason you have not sighted a UFO could possibly be you haven't been in the right place at the right time.

I wasn't looking for an encounter on that particular night or any other night for that matter, I guess I happened to be there at the right time. Are you questioning the many other people that seen it on that same night we did. This sighting was NOT in Clayton Westall sighting as some people are stating, it was in Frankston and Chelsea which is where I seen it.
It was also aired on the radio the next morning, on a Saturday.
The reason I decided to add my encounter on this site is because during the years that have gone by, I have tried on several occasion's to get in contact with the Government UFO hotline without any success.
I needed to get this of my chest and reveal my experience, hoping there would be other people on this site who have experienced similar siting as I have and they would understand my situation.
Duke 1966

[Slawomir]

Last year I have witnessed several unusual 'flying lights' on a few occasions right in Sydney that seemed to defy laws of physics, or at least clearly surpassed any man-made machine that I know of in terms of speed and acceleration (including very rapid changes of direction of motion) as well as they behaved very unusually. I made some very conservative estimates based on clouds, angles and also comparative motions of commercial planes and came up with speeds in the range of several thousands of km/h. My partner witnessed them as well, so at least I can rule out imagining these events...

I tried to follow these lights with a small telescope and it was a nearly impossible task; I only got glimpses of them but either the sources of light were too far or too small as they still appeared as a point of light through a scope... I also unsuccessfully tried to photograph these lights with an astro-camera. Perhaps I would need a fast web camera for this purpose on a small scope for a wide field.

Anyway, I am currently focused on learing how to effectively photograph nebulae, but perhaps one day will prepare a set-up for 'catching' any unusual objects.

Just sharing my experiences, that's all.

[Monstar]

Ghosts, now we're talking! I really have see some strange phenomena 'ghost wise' (some witnessed by other people simultaneously) but I won't go into that here.

[OzStarGazer]

Me too. Also witnessed by other people simultaneously. But we'd better not reveal anything here...

[chiaroscuro]

I'm sure there's a correlation between those who've seen ghosts and those who've seen "UFO's", and conversely, that the more empirical thinkers are more sceptical of such things.
My natural instinct is to seek a scientific explanation for everything that seems strange to me, and just because I don't come up with the explanation, doesn't mean there isn't one.
I've seen odd things at night too - in particular one night at 2AM driving past Lake George (a spooky place even in the daytime), and I saw a series of lights falling towards the earth, some green, some orange, some white, some red. I'm sure it was space junk burning up, with the various metals ionising giving off the colours - but I could have convinced myself otherwise at that hour of the night!

[csb]

Luke, I'm going a bit mad trying to work out where I have seen the face in your avatar.

Perhaps a Heironymus Bosch painting?
Or is it Medusa's face?

[astroron]

This may sound condescending,but I think a lot of people don't think logically
and go straight to more illogical explanation.
They want to see UFO's and when something comes around that is a bit different than they are used too,their mind makes things fit for them.
This is not ridicule,just what most investigators of this situation find.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Stardrifter_WA]

Medusa - Caravaggio :) mirror image

http://favourite-paintings.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/michelangelo-merisi-caravaggio-head-of.html

[csb]

Thanjs for that, Peter.

I knew I probably have that image in a book somewhere.

And thanks for the link: So Medusa had 2 sisters with the same hair!

[xelasnave]

Ron do you think it is reasonable to suggest seeing ufos may be contagious.
I have a view that if ufo sightings were broadcast others would present as seeing ufos..a bandwagon effect perhaps.
I often fantasize about perpetrating a ufo hoax..behind the pub so as to have reliable witnesses on hand...I shudder to think how much thought I have given it actually..but could be fun.

[astroron]

That too Alex,it is well known that if you suggest something, like I see something up in the sky some people will agree so as not to feel stupid
I remember a Candid Camera program where they did just that and lots of people saw something that was just not there.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[julianh72]

Any object which is seen in the sky and can't be identified by the observer is by definition a UFO - but that doesn't mean it must be alien spaceship!

An inexperienced observer, especially someone who "wants to believe", will be quite ready to identify any unusual sighting as some sort of craft, and it is then a short jump to "alien craft" - I haven't seen that before, therefore it doesn't come from here.

Sceptics and trained / experienced observers who witness an unusual phenomenon are more likely to assume it is NOT an alien craft, and may also have a broad range of alternative possibilities to consider, and may therefore find a simple rational explanation. Even if they can't identify it, they are more likely to accept the limitations of their knowledge and experience, and it will simply be remembered as "Wow! I wonder what that was?" rather than "I just saw an alien spacecraft!"

I'm happy for people to report their sightings in a forum such as this, and I'm happy for anyone to believe that what they saw was an alien spacecraft, but they should not be surprised if a majority of respondents here treat their beliefs with great scepticism! If you want an enthusiastic uncritical response, post on a UFO site, not a science / astronomy site!

[jenchris]

I think if I was an alien in a 'UFO' I'd rig the lights to look like a local aircraft and fly at standard rates.
They're capable of major science techniques, they are not stupid.
Why would they stick out on purpose?

[mental4astro]

I had a friend who was a paratrooper in the US army. He was an older fellow by the time I met him, wise, calm and very difficult to get an angry word from.

But, one day I did get some of his bite. We were actually talking about this same topic, and I mentioned something like the above. His reply was:

"What makes you think that YOUR way is the ONLY way of doing things? What makes you think that YOUR way of life or government is the ONLY and RIGHT way? If they do exist, they would have a very different set of values, experiences and knowledge than you. And you then think you can dictate values to them???"

That not only pulled me up, but changed the way I look upon my fellow humans who live all over the world. That was more than 20 years ago. He must have seen some things in his time in the army ol' Gary...

[LewisM]

Spot on Alex.

A lot of people say that life forms cannot exist because of such and such a condition that is detrimental to life. But in the wise old words of Spock - "It's life Jim, but not as we know it". I remember clearly still to this day a cartoon in an old astronomy book my Uncle gave me. Had a human crawling through the desert saying "WATER! WATER!". It had a "Saturnian" marooned crawling along the desert floor calling out "AMMONIA! AMMONIA!"

And if this UFO's are "intelligent", maybe they WANT us to see them... slowly become conditioned to it.

Anyway, all speculative, but think outside the square. What is logical and rational to us is not even logical or rational to other humans on Earth. Recent events prove this still.

[jenchris]

That's similar to what I was saying before, why come by ftl when you can dimension hop.
Just because we can't, there's no reason they don't have the technology.

[pmrid]

I was thinking about the initial abruptness/rudeness shown to Duke1966. Of course this isn't the first time we have seen rank arrogance, outright offensiveness and intolerable boorishness in these fora - particularly when lay members have the hide to express opinions about the sacred cows various scientific disciplines. Why does it happen at all in a forum such as this?

I confess to being initially wary about the original posting. We have seen this forum hijacked all too often lately by people either practicing outright scams or flogging links to pirate movies (or whatever they are). And in an age when computer viruses are becoming more destructive and invasive, when scams are becoming more sophisticated and prevalent, we have become hypersensitive to things that seem "out of place " or just feel wrong for some reason. We see this often when the poster - like Duke1966 - is a first-time poster. And when the language used in the posting seems somewhat stilted or contrived, that suspicion become all the greater.

On this occasion, Duke1966 has borne the brunt. Unfortunately, his original posting rang the wrong bells with me and, obviously, others. If he/she is genuine and his/her posting intended seriously, then any hurt is to be regretted. But on the other hand, the reaction cannot have been all that surprising. The lesson is think twice before pressing the send key. I just did and decided to send anyway!

Peter

[OzStarGazer]

Well, at any rate I hope Duke will come back...

[xelasnave]

I often wonder how alien life may differ from us.
I think survival of the fittest may be universal law and so such would dictate a similar approach to ours one could think.
Would they have religion is another question..so many humans need religion so I wonder if aliens feel and support similar needs.
Would we be in their food chain...
Are they on the net?
Do they have dna like ours or something different

[N1]

Had some fun with Wikipedia and Excel during lunch. UFO sightings during the 20th century. Admittedly, it was the English version of Wikipedia. Results attached.

It would seem that given the choice, Aliens prefer to visit:

- English speaking countries, and in particular
- the Western Hemisphere, and in particular
- the US

While here on Earth, they obviously like to:

- entertain the population of the 5-Eyes Spying Club member states
- avoid Continental Europe and Asia if they can

Each of the above by a surprisingly ridiculous margin.

Why would they do that? :question::screwy:

Edit: African Sightings are the coolest:
Southern Tip: 13
Rest of Continent: 1 :rofl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings

[chiaroscuro]

(Excuse the hijack, everyone).
Yes, it's a Caravaggio painting. He's my favourite painter, for a reason that is not totally irrelevant to this discussion. He introduced a realism to paintings that shocked the establishment, but also use light and perspective in a very clever way, that almost deceives the viewer. Anyway, my username, chiaroscuro, means light and dark - Caravaggio was the master of light and dark, in painting and in his life.

[csb]

Mirko, those stats n facts are very interesting. I would think that all proven UFO hoaxes occur in the same regions also.

I wonder if there are any works from the masters, such as Caravaggio, that depict UFO's. Possibly if they had a UFO encounter, real or illusion, then they would have painted a religious interpretation.

And thanks Luke. It is interesting why some people have chosen their avatar. I've now had a read up about the artist. Quite a non-conformist.

[mental4astro]

Craig,

YES, there are many depictions of what we would call astronauts and spacecraft throughout history and across the whole world.

There are many depictions of these in ancient Maya, Aztec and Inca civilizations. Spacecraft depictions complete with landing gears (very similar to those of the Lunar Module), fins and antennae. 'Spacemen' with suits, boots and helmets, and are NEVER shown to carry weapons or shields.

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There is one from the Aztecs that looks like an astronaut in a spacecraft.

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There are also what looks like stellar maps showing the course they gone through the sky.

In North America (this includes Mexico) and Peru's Nazca Lines, there are giant geolyphs, some hundreds of meters in size, that are pointless at ground level, but are astonishing from above. Some of these could be considered as navigational beacons, with vectors and cardinal points.

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Australian Aboriginal art also shows in many places uncanny resemblance also to astronauts and spacecraft. These include paintings and rock carvings. There are also giant rock 'sculptures' that bare uncanny resemblance to the geolyphs of the Americas.

There are many representations of 'UFOs' in renaissance art.

There is a site that does show many of these in the one place. Of the many quackery sites that are out there, this particular page is the most balanced in its language, views and insight to the various cultures mentioned:

http://www.visioninconsciousness.org/Ancient_Civilizations_26.htm

What is interesting about all of the ancient cultures that make reference to contact to 'astronauts', these visitors are seen as important, important guests, but not a threat. Threats would not have the reverence that is paid to them. They all show a high level of contact and communication. AND they are all totally dependent on the level of initiation as to who has the contact with and access & understanding of the images.

[DavidU]

When I was a kid I was two streets away from this major UFO deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westall_UFO

[astroron]

A fan of Erich Anton Paul von Däniken i I see.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[mental4astro]

Ron, curious you should mention this fellow. I had no knowledge of him until I googled his name from your post, :question:. What I've written has come from my own reading and listening to people from different parts of the world.

I certainly am not proclaiming anything about alien visitations. I do have an open mind when I listen to old cultures. Many of the links have been lost and along with this the meanings to many of their images. But it has to be acknowledged that there many uncanny resemblances to what we would consider spaceflight and astronauts, and in cultures across the world and across human history.

Is ET out there? Buggered if I know, and buggered if I care actually. He ain't gonna pay my mortgage... :rolleyes:

[astroron]

Some one else to add to your store room of knowledge, Alex.
His TV series and books were all the rage in the late 1960's and through out the 1970's.
As the Wiki article notes his theories where mainly condemned by Archaeologists, and scientist,but hey he made a lot of money.
It was a time that UFO's where quite popular and his books and TV series added to the hype.
No he won't pay your Mortgage for you. :D
Cheers:thumbsup:

[julianh72]

These are all good examples of the different interpretations put onto things by those who "want to believe" and those who take the time to examine carefully and critically.

I remember seeing the television "documentary" of Erich von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" in the 1970s, and being absolutely convinced of the thesis he proposed - for about a week, until I went to the library, and picked up a few books on the key subjects.

To pick a couple of the key "modern myths" that have been popularised by Erich von Daniken and others:

The supposed "Mayan Astronaut" is in fact a sarcophagus lid, and the artwork and iconography is entirely consistent with other examples from the period:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K'inich_Janaab'_Pakal#Iconography_o f_Pakal.27s_sarcophagus_lid

Contrary to popular belief, the Nazca lines and images can in fact be seen quite clearly from ground level, from the adjacent hills:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_Lines#History
Yes, they are spectacular from the air, and more easily taken in with a single view, but it is simply not true that they can only be made out from an aerial view, and the logic that they were therefore created for (or by) extra-terrestrials is simply not supported.

I have no doubt that all of the other examples which some take to be ancient representations of astronauts and spaceships are also found to have much more mundane and conventional earthly / religious / spiritual interpretations.

[thunderchildobs]

I saw this in 2008.

[Stardrifter_WA]

And, in the middle of a crop! :rofl:

[csb]

Unusual photoshop on the wires?! :evil2:

[xelasnave]

Well I saw ufo last might at the back of the pub...did anyone else see it?
Just above the trees oval shaped flashing lights and you could see beings inside...maybe I was just staring at a block of flats...
So did you see it?
If so please join discussion group to be convened after closing....

Might print that up and place on their notice board.

[N1]

Erich von Däniken.
Yea.

I saw a presentation by the man himself at a venue in Europe where we were involved with another event (of course ;)).

As I understood it, his argumentation of the Nazca lines, images etc etc being evidence of ET contact was built around the fact that they were so hard so appreciate from ground level (or not at all whatever the case may be). The designers and producers of these images, therefore, had some higher knowledge or contact or something to that end.

This argumentation has always struck me as incredibly short-sighted and, well, arrogant. It suggests that the people that made the images were too dumb to up-scale a layout plan.

The artwork is obviously directed at some entity located somewhere above. And the most lilkely addressee of a heavenward message, or so EvD argues, was Aliens. At a time when knowledge of the heavens was much more limited than today.

REALLY??!!

Charsima gone up the garden path is embarrasing to watch. :help:

[thunderchildobs]

Other than resizing the orginal image, it is not photoshoped .

[pluto]

Looks like 2 motion blurred vertical cables to me, I assume this was taken from a moving car...?

[ZeroID]

Looks like the top of a Water Tower just over the hill ...or something similar, city view tower or restaurant.
I could photo our local Skycity Casino Skytower, has an almost identical saucery configuration except it has a radio\cell mast on top. Or the Sydney CentrePoint tower.

[N1]

This thread is about UFOs, not futuristic buildings...:P

[Tropo-Bob]

UFO stories are great stories, which give story-tellers their 15 minutes of fame.
The listeners are always confronted with the fact that the teller is sincere and genuinely believes their story and the possibilities of alien life really appeal to our imaginations.
But as I wrote about 20 years ago: “The trouble with UFOs is that they appear to the wrong people. With amateur astronomers finding Novae a thousand times fainter than the eye can see, it is never them who see that bright light in the sky.”
Nevertheless, I have no idea what was seen at the start of this thread, so it is a genuine UFO, but highly unlikely to be of alien origin.
BUT, IT WOULD BE FANTASTIC IF IT WAS!!
Lol.

[N1]

Looks like messenger wires above and contact wires below. The blurred bits connect the two. There is more to this photo than I thought :P

[jenchris]

There's a tower in seattle they used in men in black.
Makes an ace UFO

[Stefan Buda]

I despair when UFO witnesses start to talk about the size, speed and distance to the object they saw. Can somebody please explain to me how is it possible to estimate these interrelated parameters without making assumptions about at least one of them. But making an assumption about something completely unknown is rather foolish and leads to meaningless interpretations. Am I missing something?

[bojan]

Have a look at my own experience with UFO's.. pretty long time ago..
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=54253&highlight=UFO
Post #10 ;)

[FlashDrive]

I watched a movie last night called.... ' Hangar 10 ' .
It's a bit slow at first... but if you persist, things get very interesting indeed.
The movie is based on ' apparent ' true events.

Watch it if you can .....

33 years after the infamous Rendlesham Forest UFO incident, three metal detector enthusiasts hunting for Saxon gold in the same region, capture incredible footage of UFO's whilst filming their expedition. As night falls and with their navigation equipment failing, they find themselves facing a terrifying encounter with an unforgiving alien presence.

Flash .....

[xelasnave]

Bogan I enjoyed that.

[thunderchildobs]

We have a winner.



Close enough, from a moving bus.

[pmrid]

Alex, you mentioned in one of your posts that there are many representations of UFOs in Renaissance art. I can't recall any. Can you enlarge on this?

If these various cave paintings, petrollyphs and lines in the desert are, as suggested, records of encounters, why, may I ask, is there no mention of this in written languages? Where is the literature? Or did ET only visit cultures with no written language?
Peter

[csb]

Alex provided a link (see below) which shows some paintings from the 15th century and earlier. You can easily see how people, nowadays, will think these paintings may depict space craft. Although, specifically in the painting "Madonna with Saint Giovannino", I would expect if a UFO were depicted then it would be larger/more prominent. It actually looks like a smudge which has formed some unusual detail which could resemble a flying saucer.

The site also makes positive and agreeing remarks about Chariots of the Gods by Erich von Daniken. So personally I would not give much credence to anything posted there.

I think von Daniken said of the famous Nazca lines, in Peru, that they were only possible to be constructed by an advanced technology (ie technology at the time the drawings were made, around 500BC, was too primitive). According to a wikipedia article researchers in 1994 were able to create fullsized replicas with simple technology in a matter of days.

http://www.visioninconsciousness.org/Ancient_Civilizations_26.htm

[OzStarGazer]

Or maybe some symbol added by the painter?
http://www.strangerdimensions.com/2014/05/06/madonna-saint-giovannino-ufo/
It is very detailed for a smudge... You can even see rays around it.

[csb]

Thanks Ozstar, that link gives a higher resolution of the painting. Wow, you can see it is not a smudge - it's something (iconography?) deliberately painted in by the artist. Interesting!

[julianh72]

The explanation is well presented here (including samples of several other paintings of the same biblical event showing other artists' depictions):

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread879030/pg2#pid14919875

Note the person in the background staring up at the "UFO." This man is a shepherd. How do we know this? Because we know what event this painting is depicting, and we know the rules of these depictions according to the RIGID ARTISTIC DISCIPLINE the artist was following.
In the art of this particular tradition, with its concrete rules, we often see this same event portrayed in the background of depictions of the Nativity such as this one.
It symbolizes "The Announcement to the Shepards"

and there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field keeping watch over their flock by night. And lo, an angel of the Lord come upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear ye not: for behold!, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you was born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord

Now, according to this rigid discipline, how was the Announcement to the Shepards supposed to be depicted? In the same ways that angels and divinity were symbolized in some of the paintings i cited earlier: as either a luminous cloud, or a luminous cloud containing angels.

[xelasnave]

Mmmm a luminos cloud would not be hard to replicate...send up some smoke and hit it with a spot light .. Or a projector.
I do think there is a case for many cultures where they are trying to relate to off planet entites.
Such doesn't have to have real aliens but merely a perception on the part of of the artists and their attempt to reflect their belief I suppose.
Overall it seems a lot of humans want contact and have wanted contact for most of our history. But correctly art is best interpreted when considered in it's cultural context.

However I doubt contact will ever be made.
The view could be taken that space travel required time and energy.
The gas bill for any journey is huge.
One would need five generations of humans to reach interesting stuff.
Meaning full space travel will always be beyond us and them as well.
To answer the question...if we could where would we go...it will be one way trip as well....

[julianh72]

What you need to remember is that the artist is not painting something that he / she (usually "he" in medieval times!) saw with their own eyes - they weren't "lucky" enough to have seen the apparition themselves, so they painted the scene using the symbolism which had arisen over more than a thousand years of tradition. They are painting a supernatural scene, which is recounted in a book, borrowing from representations by other artists, and all in accordance with strict religious "rules" of symbolism and iconography.

In addition, the book was written well over a 1,000 years before they read the stories contained in it, and had already gone through numerous translations before they read whichever version they had access to - generally Latin, for medieval Christian art. (Aramaic / Hebrew / Greek / Latin and probably a few more before the King John English Bible which many of us know, which precedes the modern "Good News" and other versions.)

What I don't understand is why we seem so ready to ascribe "reality" and "truth" to the mythology and symbolism of Christianity and the other Abrahamaic faiths, but not to the creation mythology of other cultures.

Was the world really created by a rainbow serpent and a burping frog? (Or maybe it was just the continent of Australia, and other regions were created literally as described in their respective local creation mythology and religious texts?)

[xelasnave]

Julian we are on the same page.
My comment was to do with presenting a ufo experience or bluntly to present a hoax..the ease or ability appeals to me..as a utube event unrelated to the art upon which we comment.
Your grip of the matter is excellent ...

[pmrid]

That's a good point.

It's worth remembering that until well into the 1700s, the Aristotalean geocentric model of the universe was not only the accepted model, but was also insisted upon by the church and enforced through the inquisition.

Since most religious art was sponsored or commissioned by or for the church, it is highly unlikely that artists in the Middle Ages would have insinuated into their renderings of specific religious/biblical themes and events some contemporary experience with UFOs. To have actively suggested that the universe (as composed of the moon, planets and stars) was not fixed and unchangeable would have been the wildest heresy and have led to the torch (as Fra Bruno and some others discovered) or other sanctions (as Gallileo discovered).

The Aristotalean view of the Universe was rigidly insisted upon and enforced by the church well after Copernicus had debunked it and that lasted until well into Newton's lifetime if not beyond. The so-called scientific revolution is said to have been marked by Copernicus and Newton at either end (1550 - 1700). It's somewhat paradoxical that during much of this time, the whole of Europe was embroiled in religious wars. For example, the 30-years War 1618-1648 waged by the Holy Roman Empire engaged the whole of Western Europe in the Catholic vs Protestant struggle) and during those times, it just didn't pay to be seen to harbour views that might be seen as heretical. And yet, this was the age of Copernicus, Kepler, Brahe, Gallileo, Newton and others who were the catalysts for the demise of Aristotle and Ptolemy and the geocentric universe.

And none of these has ever suggested - however obliquely - that there had been any visits from outer space or sightings of alien craft in the heavens. Apart from reports of the Great Comet of 1577, there are no books, pamphlets, essays or the like suggesting any alien sightings or visitations.

The absence from the scientific literature of that era of reports of flying craft in the skies is, I think, highly significant and makes the suggestion that works of art produced during the same time should be read as showing contemporary encounters seem extremely shallow.

Peter

[julianh72]

I suspect there's going to be a big upsurge in the number of reported UFO sightings if Google's Project Loon takes off (pun intended) . Check out some of the videos in this story!

Gizmodo: A Brief History of People Thinking Google's Loon Balloons Are UFOs. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwuNOwxx8

[jenchris]

I was under the impression that the Muhabarata (sp) actually depicted an aerial battle?

Why do we think the West is the only civilisation to have a written account of history?

[pmrid]

I don't think anyone has suggested that (at least not yet ;) My point remains. Point me to any written account of sightings of flying objects in any credible history. The occurrence of these reports seems to have exploded post WWII after which we had the atom bomb, real rockets and a whole lot of people on both sides of the Cold War expecting the other side to launch them into extinction at any minute. There have been a number of credible reviews and inquiries into UFO sightings in the US and of the hundreds reviewed, one or two have not been accounted for.

And about that ariel battle Jennifer mentioned as possibly being cited in an ancient Hindu religious work - does that suggest that there were multiple UFOs having a dogfight over downtown Bombay? They came a long way to have a fight!! Or perhaps it is more to do with one or more of the panoply of Hindu gods having it out with one-another. It's metaphor, not a description of reality. Either way, I'd love to be pointed to the text so we could all see what it's about.

Peter

[OICURMT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJElZwEI8o

[csb]

There is probably something in that. The desire of man hoping there is something out there. Possibly coinciding with new technologyies (as you have said) and new realisations.

[jenchris]

The Mahabarata has pics of flying machines etc.
Some quite similar to the aztec ones.
There's plenty of instances of flying machines in Ezekiel.
Including a quadcopter on which the angel of the lord noisily descends.
"Roaring of lions" I believe it says.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Great clip, thanks for posting.

That reminded me about an incident from the 80's in suburban Perth. I got a frantic call from my brother one night saying that a UFO was buzzing over Perth, and from his description it had coloured rotating lights and was going backwards and forwards.

A little while later he comes around my place and said get your telescope out, it's back. Yeah right! In those days it took a half hour to set it up. Anyway, we went back outside and sure enough, there was a flashing light. Damn, you're right, so I dash in and grab the bino's.

It was interesting in that what he described was not what I actually saw. No rotating coloured lights, but lights it did have. It was a fixed low wing aircraft with an advertising message, letters made up of white lights under the wing.

Clown, it's a bloody plane, was my reply. And he thought I was a clown. Now, my brother is very intelligent, but what he saw did not match the actual observation, so I found the deGrasse video quite interesting. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable and the really crazy thing, as deGrasse points out, we rely on them in court.

Cheers Peter

[astroron]

I have too agree with you Peter,:)
In September 1990 I was driving from Huntingdon Beach to LA when I noticed this object on the horizon going up and down in line with the Freeway,
it had red rotating lights in a form of circle.
As I got closer it disappeared for a while, After about 15 minutes more driving I spotted it on the side of the highway, it was the GoodYear blimp with advertising on the side,and was doing the traffic report.
I also find it so funny that people will read a fictional book "The old testiment"
and take it as gospel* pun intended:P
Cheers:thumbsup:

[pmrid]

The Ezekiel thing is easy enough. Problem is that the passage in question is frequently misquoted or misinterpreted. But with a little research into the biblical message, it becomes clear that Ezekiel’s writing and visions were apocalyptic in nature—very similar to the writings found in both Daniel and Revelation. The visions Ezekiel described are of heavenly, spiritual beings, not “alien life forms.” By comparing the description of the living creatures in Ezekiel to that of the living creatures that surround the throne of God in Revelation 4, one quickly realizes that the scenes witnessed by Ezekiel, John, Daniel, and other inspired writers were visions of God and His spiritual host of heaven. (http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1061 )

The Indian flying machines are not so easy because of the difference in the religious backdrop to them but it does seem more likely than not that these ar similar prophetic visions and accounts of the gods settling scores. There are no accounts in that literature of any actual encounters as far as I can find.

Peter

[julianh72]

That is solid gold - thanks for posting!

[Baddad]

Hi OICURMT,

Thanks for sharing that Neil d G. video. Very good.
I wondered if he was an astro amateur at some stage.

Cheers:)