What would you do ?

[GrahamL]

Myself and family recently decided to build a home ,,our first :)

Signed a contract in NSW with a QLD project builder at there display home
listing the company as the builder.,,both staff we dealt with left the company a while later and they have closed there display ,this is to do with timeframes allowed for display homes in estates but they havn't built another

A month later before our pick the colours appointment in brisbane at there head office we where asked bring along our contract as an ammendmant needed to be added .

There name, the company, was crossed out and another builders name was added , company name,liscence no abn , etc listed ,though the original signature of there staff member wasn't changed.

Another month just prior to when site prep was supposed to start,and we recieved a request with with a stat dec from a solicitor wanting to change the second builder to another , with a vague referance to changing start time as well , it listed his name and nothing else ,no company name ,abn or liscence no.

we went and saw a solicitor obviously

he noted the company wasn't liscenced to build in nsw and never has been its structure and name was only registered mid last year though the company had been operating previously in NSW under its brand name.

The second builder ,my son contacted and while they had done work previously for the project builder they wern't doing anymore and knew nothing of our contract,further it was stated none had authority to sign on there behalf.

The third builder while being registered in NSW didn't have a current
insurance certificate with required liability to build ,though he seems to have eligability for small builds of less than 12K.

:mad2:

fair trading is looking into it for us,but Ihave my doubts much will come of this as the staff member who changed the original contract is, well at face value appearing a little less than honest on a couple of fronts (for one telling builder 2 original staff member changed contract)when it was her goodself that did the changes.

options

go to court ,,deposit taken 11.5 k.

find another builder whos willing to take on another companys plans , must be changed by 10 % to avoid copyright infringemet,we do have a council approved building certificate,and an archetect in the family happy to do the paperwork,

Start over .

?

[el_draco]

They broke contract, deposit should be in a trust fund. They don't have a leg to stand on.... I suspect. Numerous four letter words apply but I'll save the moderators the job :mad2:

Good luck and I feel for you.

[troypiggo]

Sounds like a Current Affair story in the making...

[doppler]

Sadly the solicitors will think 11,000 is small change and not worth persuing, but you should probably look into the criminal aspect, this must be bordering on forgery/fraud or something with the amount of dodgey paperwork.

[xelasnave]

I think you have a problem that will not have a happy ending as it sounds as though your deposit has been paid to someone other than who is now on the contract.
What do you know about the original builder.
Are they a substantial operation?
What other homes have they built?
Who has the deposit?
Is the original builder trying to be helpful or does not want to know you.
Do you know anyone who had dealt with the original builder.
It seems strange that it took so long for the builder to realise there could be a problem building in NSW .
A professional would be aware one could think

[xelasnave]

It seems like a con in which case going to court will be a waste of more money.
One tell tale of a con...did the price seem like really good value..
Years ago I ran into a con that went like this...the add offered house and land at an irresistible price.
The buyer was offenders the land from one company at an inflated price. The building contract was with another company at a very low price.
The land went thru and the purchaser paid for it..the building never got built.
The profit came from the land sale.

[GrahamL]

Hi Alex

Price was comparable to others.

Its a largish operation at least 15/20 staff I saw at there head office.

Yes they do have completed homes across the eastern states .

Just read an e mail , yes contract documents were not filled out correctly,I wonder if fair trading has picked that up as I don't know why she'd jump on that as we have never mentioned the errors .
,blamed on past employees, do we want another contract ?.

money has been spent on engineers and council approvals ,plans so no refund they say,and the plans are copyrighted it was pointed out so you cant use them.

I believe whatever happened with the previous franchisee had a big part of whats gone on,I don't think they went broke,but sure arn't around anymore .I don't think there was anyone to build down here and they were throwing up some fog to try and buy a little time .The dissapointing part is that if they were up front and transparant with whats going on we might of listened.

[xelasnave]

How do you know plans are copywrited?
They don't want to build yet won't let you use the plan and the deposit has been spent..sounds fishy to me.
Can you still talk to them ... Will they or can they arrange a builder.

[ZeroID]

Plaster their name all over the internet as being bad karma, write to the papers, the radio stations, complain to your local pollie, council.
Start taking them down. If they can hurt you, you can hurt their business big time.
If they haven't got a license to operate in the state they haven't got a leg to stand on. Build the house the way you want to and ignore their complaints, they are illegal anyway. If they litigate then hedge them around forever costing them a bomb and giving bad publicity then settle out of court for your money returned.
I would certainly be making a lot of very public noise about it.

[rustigsmed]

in Victoria, the permit and plans run with the land.
I am failing to see where there is copyright infringement?

[tlgerdes]

You have to ask yourself, is pain and headache of chasing this through worth $12k.

After recently building a house, seeing friends doing it and things going wrong for them, I would say not.

Cut your loss, take what you have and shop it to other proven builders. They will help you modify and comply.

We had a great build with Rawson. Knockdown, rebuild, 12 months door to door. On time, on budget. We only had 2 small disagreements that totaled $8k on a $430k build, but we got other discounts (things that were never billed) of $12k.

[GrahamL]

was just reading over this as its just been sorted... wow that took a while

Fair trading flipped our complaint to a tribunal hearing , who can make a determination .

The building companies lawyers sent us a notice they intended to claim damages for us not proceeding with the building contract to the tune of 55k.

Then sent an offer of $1500 to settle , then $3000 , then $7000
then the whole amount, they also stalled one tribunal meeting at two minutes to start with our lawyer present just because they could.

We did $2500 in legals and got the rest back,, they did accept a penalty and fine for the breaches to avoid prosecution .


we have started over with another builder.

[GeoffW1]

Good to hear.

[clive milne]

Graham,
There is a little scam that some builders like to employ that sting a lot of people without them even being aware of it.

It goes like this:
Variations to the original build specifications incur a penalty rate to cover the builder for the inconvenience of change. For example, if you were to expand the kitchen size by 1m in length, the additional cost of materials would not cover the cost of the muck around to achieve it. and that is fair enough.

My experience is this;
When we chose our builder, we approached them with a very clear idea of everything we wanted, down to the manufacturer and model of the light fittings and tap ware. He (the owner of the building company) said, oh don't worry about that sort of detail, we'll quote you on the house construction assuming we instal the basic, generic hardware and adjust the final payment figure to reflect the extra cost of the specifics related to construction that you choose. Imagine our surprise to see a 30% (or what ever it was) premium applied to any deviation from the basic 'prison ware' light fittings, tiles, skirting boards, stove, cornice, kitchen cupboards, hot water system, sink, bench tops, etc, etc... because they were 'variations', even though we had specified this equipment in the first place. If we hadn't actually gone through each item and cross checked the value against receipts, we wouldn't have even noticed the gouge.

caveat emptor.

[FlashDrive]

There's some real scum out there. :mad2:...and they KNOW they are employing DISHONEST practices and DECEPTION. ( thieves NEVER prosper )
Glad to hear you got ' most ' of your hard earned money back...:thumbsup:
Good work Graham...

' Fret not yourself because of evildoers,be not envious of wrongdoers,
For they shall soon fade like the grass and wither like the green herb '

Col...

[GrahamL]

cheers guys

[Eratosthenes]

Very important that you pursue the original builders. Most likely you are not alone and the more complaints against them, the better chance of exposing them and hopefully getting them out of the industry.

Whilst 11.5K isn't spare change, getting your home built is the main objective and if you are working to a strict completion date, then obtaining some quotes from reputable builders and companies with proven track record may be the way to go. And keep the action on the 11.5k bubbling along in the background, even if you don't recoup the bulk of it.

I had an experience with a mechanic some time ago. I blew the engine in my Van - the head seized due to the total loss of coolant and faulty sensor. I was stranded so I had the vehicle towed to the nearest mechanic which I used occasionally for small jobs. I left the Van there and he rang me later that day saying "we took the head off the engine, to repair, it will cost $4100" and take 2 weeks". I told him you can get a reconditioned engine for much less than that, complete with warranty. I asked him to go that way and he wouldnt agree. I asked him what his costs were and how much it would cost to put the head back on. He inflated his costs to $850 thinking that I would continue with his repair advice.

Then I rang REPCO and got a quote for reco engine which was $1390, and they recommended a mechanic across the road from their REPCO outlet.

Next day I organised a Tow Truck to pick up my van, (costing $110). On principle I paid the $960 and had the Van towed to the other mechanic. They charged me $540 for the engine installation - so total cost was $1940 and finished the job in 2 days and provided a warranty almost equivalent to a new car.

I still go to that new mechanic - very honest and does a reliable job. Sometimes you need to absorb a cost on principle and move on (incidentally that first mechanic closed shop about 2 years after - you just cant run a business like that for too long - word gets around)

good luck

[FlashDrive]

Quite right Peter..... ( thieves NEVER prosper ).... For they shall soon fade like the grass and wither like the green herb '

Col....

[Eratosthenes]

....indeed Col

.....and the stench wafting from their putrid decaying carcasses shall be remembered for all eternity by the little people who were left in their deceitful wake....

[GrahamL]

Well we have settled the matter Peter , the same clause we were threatened with could of been used in reverse , and we probably did suffer additional losses because of the contract not proceeding several months back, sometimes you have to walk away and the advice we were given was to do just that , we may gain a little more back as some council fees wont be charged for a second time and the other party agreed as part of the settlement not to pursue them .