Just started and would like to see a Galaxy

[Dazza81]

Hi Everyone,

I've just started out with an 8" dob. Really enjoying being able to see the planets - Jupiter, Saturn Mars also all the stars but now I'm keen to see a Galaxy.
Does anybody have any suggestions as to one I could aim at?

I'm in Sydney in the Sutherland Shire and also heard there is a group that goes down to waterfall occasionally to view under darker skies, does anybody know anything about that?

Cheers

[julianh72]

Well, if you've got a reasonable view to the North, M31 (Andromeda galaxy) is visible to the naked eye (if you've got dark skies), and is sitting around 20 degrees above the horizon in the evening at the moment. It can be easily picked up in 10x50 binoculars, and will give a nice eye-piece filling view with a wide-angle eyepiece.

Once you've taken that in, you can work your way through the numerous galaxies in the Messier and Caldwell catalogs ...

[Dazza81]

Thanks Julian. Where I am in the South of Sydney means my the view to the North has a fair bit of light pollution but I'll give Andromeda a go and also Messier and Calswell

[michael_m]

Have a go at the Silver Coin Galaxy (NGC 253) maybe? It's near Diphda high in the eastern sky at the moment and getable in a 6" dob from light polluted Melbourne suburbs

Mike

[wasyoungonce]

Globular clusters are outside or galaxy (well in our galactic halo) and are visually spectacular. NGC5139 is one of the biggest brightest that can be seen and is visually breathtaking in a scope!

[madwayne]

Hi Darren

The Sutherland Astronomical Society (SASI) have club get togethers on the 3rd quarter and new moon Saturday nights weather and club get togethers pending at Waterfall behind the public school but in the grounds of the Royal National Park. At the moment a number of members would be at their annual venture to Wooton (near Taree) and more than likely no Waterfall this weekend. For $50 per year it is well worth it. The club has an observatory at Oyster Bay with a number of permanently mounted telescopes. They also do meetings including guest speakers on Thursday nights. More information at www.sasi.net.au.

NGC253 is a special at this time of the year. I was out at home on the weekend with my goto dob and had a look at a galaxy cluster in Grus, NGCs 7582/7590/7599. This cluster sits in the triangle made by Fomulhaut, Ankaa and Beta Grus. There is at least a dozen small faint galaxies in this triangle. I assume you have Stellarium or an app or a star atlas? Stellarium would be my starting point if you don't have either.

Hope this information helps and please keep looking up and asking.

Wayne

[barx1963]

Darren

NGC 253 is the pick at the moment, nearby is also NGC 55 which is a nice galaxy. The cluster Wayne mentioned is the Grus Quartet (add in NGC 7552 to make it a quartet!) but the he mentioned are easy in one field. Can be a little faint if any light pollution is present.
In a short while the Fornax cluster starts to become easier, unless you are willing to stay up quite late!!

Malcolm

[speach]

What about the SMC and LMC?

[kens]

Or Milky Way ;)

[Dazza81]

wow thanks guys, I'll take all of the suggestions on board, they sound exciting. I just need the skies to clear now :)

[mental4astro]

Hi Darren,

There have been made many fine suggestions made of galaxies to chase down. Mine is not a must-see suggestion, but a how-to and what-to-expect post.

First the reality of galaxies in a scope - don't expect to see the magnificent bright spirals you see in photos. That just won't be the case. Even in a large instrument, say my 17.5" scope, the spiral structure in galaxies that display them is always subtle, and most times a real pain to glimpse. And under urban skies, no chance at all. To get the most out of a galaxy, you really need to be under a dark sky.

How to spot them - I do not know what your experience is like with astronomical telescopes, so forgive me if you already are familiar with averted vision. If you are not, it is the technique of looking just to one side of an object or detail in order to see the object. Our central vision is rich with rods, where rods are great for detail and colour, but respond poorly in low light conditions. Cones respond much better to low light, but are poor in detail. immediately surrounding our central vision is a sweet spot of an area which is rich in both rods and cones - this is the are that we as humans need to exploit.

When you are panning your telescope slowly across the sky to find a faint fuzzy, you will undoubtedly spot something out of the corner of your eye, then quickly fling the scope back to where you 'saw' something, but then no longer see it!!! Flaming heck, I thought I saw something! will be your first thought. Thing is you DID see something, but you are now relying on your rod rich central vision to find something that you spotted out of the corner of your cone rich peripheral vision, and now you no longer see it. See what's going on?

Averted vision is just looking to one side of a faint object in order to see it best. It is a learned technique that takes a little practice, but is learned very, very quickly. And don't worry about if it drives you barmy are the start. Even after more than 30 years of using scopes, I still sometime need to remind myself to use averted vision, again...

So when you are chasing down your first galaxies, be patient. They are faint and challenging for novice eyes. You being in Kirrawee you have a similar chance as me in Maroubra, so do have a go from home. Just be aware of the shortcomings of urban skies, and that a dark sky is better for galaxy spotting.

Below are a few sketches I've done of galaxies seen through my scopes under dark skies. They will give you an idea of how galaxies look like. Other than the two spirals, the other 'blobby' types are how most actually appear.

If you are interested, I'd be happy to show you how to make the most of your dob and how to spot bits and pieces in the sky. I'm not going anywhere this weekend, so if you are keen, let me know and I'll get a pot of tea ready.

Mental.

[SteveInNZ]

That's a pretty good offer for some guidance but I think that there is something special about finding your first galaxy yourself.

If at all possible, I'd seek out somewhere (preferably dark but not essential) with a northern view around 10pm.
The stars of the 'square of Pegasus' are nice and bright and you can follow them down to the Andromeda Galaxy (M31). Once you've found that, there's a line of stars to the Triangulum Galaxy (M33).
Print yourself a chart to take with you or use a planetarium program on your phone to identify the square.
Good luck and have fun.

Steve.

[Dazza81]

Thanks for the tips Alexander, I've heard of that averted vision technique but never tried it. I'll also lower my expectations as you said, the galaxies probably wont resemble anything like the photos.

yes I might need to join the SASI Wayne, $50 sounds worthwhile

[hobbit]

Hi Darren,
Good to see another shire folk here.

[mental4astro]

Darren, don't see it as lowering your expectations, but adapting your viewing to suit conditions. Remember that even out bush our ability to see things and what magnification we can push things to is also a variable due to the prevailing atmospheric conditions of the night. Some nights you can easily pull a tiny, faint galaxy. Another night you can't even find the blasted thing. A dark site is no cure-all situation either!

Another thing about galaxies that hasn't been mentioned yet is surface brightness. This is the relationship between the intrinsic magnitude and the total area the object covers. So what reads as a magnitude 6 galaxy actually becomes a wretched thing to see as i is a very large object. Thing is that the 'magnitude 6' value is the entire illumination of the galaxy brought into a single point of light!!!!!

The beautiful galaxy M33 has been mentioned. Its 'magnitude' is listed at around 6.5. But it is a massive object. It can actually be a very difficult to see in a scope, totally dependant on good conditions. Its low elevation for us in Oz makes it even trickier :(

Be patient...

[Dazza81]

I had a go last night at viewing Andromeda and M33 since the clouds finally cleared...I'm pretty sure I saw them they were extremely faint, I was using my 9mm lens

[barx1963]

Try a longer eyepiece, especially with M31, it is really big.

Cheers

Malcolm

[raymo]

Darren, M31 is very large, and would be hard to identify through a 9mm EP. You would only see a part of it, and it would be dimmer through such a high power EP. You need your lowest power EP for M31.
raymp

[Dazza81]

Really, I've got a 15mm and 30mm so I'll give it a go with those ones tonight instead

[wasyoungonce]

Raymo & Barx are totally correct....best on the 30mm.

The moon is ~31 arc mins diameter...around 1/2 a degree apparent to us from the earth.

M31 is 190 x 60 arc mins...almost 3 degrees by 1 degree apparent to us from the earth! So it's tenuous and faint.

[julianh72]

Dazza,

I suggest you start with the 30 mm, and get your target clearly identified and centred, before even thinking about using the 15 mm or 9 mm.

In your first post, you told us you have an 8" Dob - presumably with a focal length of about 1200 mm. A 30 mm Plossl would give you 40x magnification with a field of view of roughly 1.25 degrees.

With clear dark skies, the attached image (taken from "Turn Left at Orion" http://www.cambridge.org/features/turnleft/pages/seasonal_skies/oct-dec/in_andromeda_the_andromeda_galaxy_M 31_with_its_companions_M32_and_M110 .htm ) of the optimum view in a "Large Cat" would be a rough indication what you might be able to see of M31 on a good night, but you also said you have light pollution to your North, so your view won't be as good or clear as this - the "Small Newt" image might be a better representation (but your field of view will be a bit smaller than the circle in this image. (By the way - "Turn Left at Orion" - the book AND the companion website - are an excellent resource for a beginner astronomer!)

For your first efforts, you should probably concentrate on looking for galaxies and nebulae that are higher in the sky than Andromeda gets, and preferably in whichever directions have the darkest skies from your location. Once you have found a few, you will have a better idea of what you are looking for, and what they should look like at various magnifications.

[Dazza81]

Thanks for that Julian. I think I'll aim to the South instead which is the darkest direction from my place

[Dazza81]

Thanks for that Julian. I think I'll aim to the South instead which is the darkest direction from my place

[Dazza81]

Hey Guys,

I saw Adnromeda last night through my 30mm lens! Was a perfect night and after a bit of searching a found it :)
Cheers for all the tips

[AussieSky]

Nice to see another member from The Shire :welcome:

Greg

www.aussiesky.net/weather/ (http://www.aussiesky.net/weather/)