Vitamin Supplement

[xelasnave]

I often wonder when I read the lables on the various vitamin supplement bottles if they really work at all.
I believe that one is best eating a balanced diet but unfortunately in my case I just don't seem to be able to follow a diet that would achieve the required intake.
So I try to take vitamin supplements to cover my perceived shortfall.
I am interested in members views on the matter and perhaps any personal experience, either negative or positive.
I asked my Doctor who seemed to me evasive but replied "vitamin b is ok" and briskly changed the subject. Does that mean the others are a waste of time.
I will ask again next time I see him but he may want to keep me unhealthy and profitable, I hope not, but your views carry great weight with me so I hope I don't have to ask him.

[casstony]

I think the vast majority of supplements are of no use to any particular individual unless one has a deficiency or a chronic health problem for which there is no effective regular medicine.

Vitamin D for example can be measured and supplemented if necessary. I also recall a doctor saying that selenium supplements are useful to help prevent cancer, but only supplement with the small amounts found in multivitamins - at higher doses it's a poison.

My opinion is formed partly through personal experience attempting to reduce pain/inflammation associated with chronic disease. After reading medical databases I experimented with dozens of potential treatments: most had no effect, a few had negative side effects and a few provided benefit.

It's annoying when medical professionals dismiss a particular substance simply because most supplements are unnecessary. On the other hand there are plenty of people deluding themselves about the effectiveness of alternative treatments and plenty of criminals taking advantage of them.

[ZeroID]

HI Alex,
A balanced diet is by far the best as my wife and I have proven. A bit of everything in moderation works for us but it is high in vegetable, with small quantities but good quality protein.

The only supplement I take is Glucosamine which does help my dodgy knee joints a bit. And Vitamin B after a wee bit too much wine as it replaces it when alcohol strips it. ( that advice from a nurse who knew )

Over here we get a magazine called Healthy Food Guide which has alternative healthy versions of almost anything you'd want and we set weekly menu's which not only taste good but saves money as we only buy what we need. Less wastage, better quality. Other than that we eat almost anything. Latest cooking experiments have been Persian, very tasty.
I have had almost no stomach problems now for the last 4-5 years since we gradually shifted our eating style.

[cometcatcher]

I take a few vitamin supplements, but they are only for deficiencies that showed up in blood tests, like vitamin D, B12 and iron. I take magnesium and calcium for cortisone induced osteoporosis. I also take flaxseed oil and Fenugreek which seems to help my ulcerative colitis. Since my colon doesn't work properly I don't absorb nutrients like a normal person. All that lot gets expensive, but it helps me function better.

Just be aware of dosage guidelines and upper limits for vitamins as some can be toxic as poison.

[Renato1]

I used to think the general taking of Vitamins were useless, never having detected any change in me from taking them.

However, after a friend who sometimes posts here pointed out that Vitamin B3 kept him alert, I bought the cheapest bottle of Vitamin B Complex at Chemist Warehouse. Much to my astonishment, when I take half of a pill a day, I only need four hours sleep a night instead of my more usual six to seven hours.

Regards,
Renato

[Tropo-Bob]

A relative of mine is right into the vitamins and she is not a healthy person. Five serving of vegetables a day can be a bit tricky, but I manage with the help of frozen vegetables and a microwave. I also found that by having a lightly grilled tomato (in slices) and a small amount of blue cheese with my meals, makes the vegetables much more palatable.

Also, don't ignore having 2 servings of fruit per day.

I hope I have not gone too far off topic, but with the aid of a better diet, much less junk food and exercising, I have had a weight-lost of 22kgs this year.

I recently had some blood tests, and the doctor said all the readings are perfect (unlike 12 months ago).

[ZeroID]

Four hours .. ?? !!
No way. I need 6 hours or so and even if B complex allowed me to stay awake longer it is not good practice for your mental health.

[multiweb]

I reckon unless you have a serious deficit of something due to a condition all vitamins you need are found in sufficient amount in a balanced diet and a daily dose of sunlight. By balanced I mean veggies, meat, fat, sugar, nuts, fruits, fibre all in moderation. The vitamin industry is massive and all marketing for very expensive urine. Your body will flush out anything it doesn't use so you're better off saving your pennies. My 2c.

[PeterEde]

Agree with most. Balanced diet or something resembling one should not need supplements. You're kidneys remove excess crap from your body. Which is why after taking vitamins your pee is bright orange or yellow.
Vitamins are a huge rort the pharmaceutical industry rides on and people get sucked into it.

[graham.hobart]

Agree with most comments with caveat...
Those with pernicious anaemia/ gut issues should watch the b12 folic
acid levels-some of my "clients" have regular b12 injections and feel the benefit.
Iron is a good example, you won't absorb it without co administration of vitamin c so best check your bottles.
There is active research about exactly how much Vitamin D you actually need now. The Menzies Centre in Hobart just embarked on a big recruitment drive for patients for a mega dose once in a while study as opposed to daily.
I agree with all the balanced diet stuff, if you eat healthily you shouldn't need supplements. And it is right that you just pish it all away.
But, poor diet, medications and ill health, plus alcohol can affect your requirements.
Not preaching but if you feel you need extra advice your Gp can do a Medicare extended care plan that makes it a lot cheaper to see a dietician or lots of other allied health experts.'
I'm a Gp so I know my **** !!!
Cheers
Graham

[LewisM]

I take B12 and get the injections routinely. Makes a MASSIVE difference. I have specific liver related issues.

Anyway, as the old saying goes, and most doctors agree, vitamin supplements are just expensive urine.

[graham.hobart]

Vodka ?:lol:

[Ric]

Hi Alex

I always check with my doctor first regarding supplements. some dont go well with medications.

I was taking Glucosamine for my knuckles but when I told my doctor he nearly had kittens.

Apparently that combined with with my Diabetes and blood pressure tablet could have had the effect of dropping my blood pressure down to very low levels.

[cometcatcher]

Fenugreek can reduce blood sugar levels also, with possible adjustment of dose if one is on diabetic medication.

[LewisM]

Bitter gourd works wonders for lowering BGL. Tastes...odd... but it works.

I think you can buy tablets of bitter gourd extract online.

[Baddad]

Vitamins before wine, A multi vitamin twice a week. That is all I take. Except when I was in the sport of body building. Then there were several supplements.

I function quite well on 4-5 hours sleep. Don't know if its the Vit B effect.

Some vitamins like 'C' when taken in large doses for long periods and suddenly stop has been known to cause scurvy symptoms. I remember reading about it when I researched supplements. Whether true or not I do not know.
Yes! It does lead to expensive waste and that is why I take vitamins in lower doses than what is written on the bottles.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Thank you all sincerely.
As most of you know I live like a hermit only interacting with immediate family.IIS is my conduit to the world. I don't belong to another forum and only visit science sites..my point is I really value your opinions...
Fortunately for an old man I am very healthy other than the spinal problem I recently reported..can walk and still improving by the way...no medication no booze etc..net I have always taken a range of vitamins in an effort to top up basically.
I still exercise and spar for flexibility so maybe I am a little fixated on being fit.
But cause I am mostly in the bush without a fridge I feel I don't get the fruit and veggies hence I think get it in a pill.
Thanks I really appreciate the wonderful posts.

[rustigsmed]

rather than supplements, perhaps make yourself a blended drink full of vegetables, garlic, ginger, tumeric and fruit daily.

[xelasnave]

Maybe I should get a camper fridge..aldi have one this week and some panels...jm plus more batteries..I will do the math as to power needs

[Renato1]

But one gets more life out of each day.
Cheers,
Renato

[GrahamL]

But I read that your body only allows so many awake yours in a lifetime
Renato maybe a bit like pedal to the metal and you'll fit more in your day and get to where we all are going a little faster,,,but is that last bit a good thing ? :P

Was out your way couple of weeks back and thought of you Alex
Do you still talk science at Drake ?

[xelasnave]

Have not been to Drake for near three years.
I don't socialise at all these days or bend ears with non mainstream views.
I have been trying to settle down and stop running around like a teenager.

[DavidU]

:D I must get some , I have not taken this vitamin for many years:thumbsup:

[ZeroID]

I believe we carry that medication in the fridge most of the time, must check tonight to ensure stocks and toxicity is correct. If not there are a number of alternatives ....:thumbsup: :P

[ZeroID]

Meanwhile back on subject:
Taking vitamins or supplements to adjust some medical conditions aside the real problem with vitamins as a replacement is that you then miss on on all the extra minerals and bits your body gets from real food. Veges contain far more than just the vitamin you are specifically taking in a tablet form. Roughage (fibre), proteins (Legumes and beans) and dozens or more of trace elements that are not included in that little gelatinous capsule that the chemist or health shop said would do the job.
Nothing wrong with frozen veges at all, we often do an asian stir fry with chicken\beef\pork with 500gms of mixed veges from the freezer. there's your 5 veges per day in one go. Our big resource is our spice and liquid additives and lemons. Sesame oil, Soy sauce, cumin, evry thing under the sun plus a herb garden for fresh Oregano, thyme, mint, rosemary, bay leaves, parsley ( excellent for stomach ). If the original recipe looks a bit bland then then these will jazz it up real fast. Lemon or lime is a great taste replacement for salt which we still use but in moderation.
Since we moved onto a more healthier style of eating I have discovered far more flavours and styles than was ever possible with the old 'fat\salt\sugar' combination most western diets espouse. Haven't been to a Macca's or any equivalent since 2005 and no way do I miss them.

We also grow tarragon, fennel, asparagus, strawberries, garlic ( awesome fresh!! ), onions, chives. Only thing we don't grow is veges, cheaper than growing in the supermarket so why bother. Although I do grow beans and we have a massive grape vine.

Sorry, I get a bit passionate about our eating habits, I enjoy cooking and experimenting and I've felt the results. I'll stop preaching now. :rolleyes:

[mental4astro]

There is one thing that everyone is alluding to in this discussion, but are skirting around. Dr Graham has come the closest - food intake and the body's use of nutrients is a complex relationship. Supplements on their own are useless unless the other vitamins, minerals, enzymes, gut bacteria, etc, are there to make use of them. AND everybody is different in their efficiency in absorbing nutrients.

Many times its certain 'foods' that are more detrimental, no matter supplements or 'balanced diet'. Refined carbohydrates like sugar and white flour are quiet killers. The affects they have on our health undermines everything else we do to improve our situation. Even with judicious consumption of supplements, eye health alone is slowly wrecked by sugar intake (leaving diabetes aside). Excessive grog is another.

I mention eye health as it is one thing that is paramount for us enjoying astronomy.

Good health to everyone, :)

For curiosity sake, the diet I follow was given to me by an Aunty one Sunday arvo. She said to me while I was getting stuck into a delicious Italian cake "Why are you eating sugar? Is it your birthday?" Not as easy as it sounds...

[Renato1]

Hi Graham,
If that were true, I suspect someone would have noticed a strong correlation between people living over 100 years and them having slept say 10 hours a day all their lives.

Also, that notion contradicts another often cited notion, that the heart only has so many beats in it and that's it (which was used by some to say one shouldn't exercise much).

Cheers,
Renato

[ZeroID]

What Alex /\ said ..