TEC-140 availability in Australia

[thomqos]

Can anyone advise of how to obtain a TEC-140 refractor in Australia please?

I am seriously considering the WO FLT-132, but from what I've read, the TEC-140 also seems to be well esteemed and worthy of consideration.

Russ

[Hans Tucker]

There is no TEC dealer in Australia so the only way to get a new one is through TEC direct or through a dealer overseas. It would be rare to see one up for sale on IIS so the only other option for second hand is through the various US Astro classifieds like Astromart or Cloudy Nights.

[thomqos]

Thanks Hans
Pity about that. Looks like a real nice scope.

Russ

[SkyWatch]

Not sure if you can get them in Australia, but have you considered the Takahashi TOA-130NS: seems about the same price landed, and available from Claude at Astronomy and Electronics?
I have used the Tec 140, when I was in France on holidays and it was very nice- but when I got home and got my Tak TSA 102 out I felt the Tec suffered a bit by comparison.
Haven't used the Williams FLT-132, although I have used a number of other Williams refractors, but I suspect it is not in the same class...
Of course, if you want to wait forever, there is always the AP 130mm f/6.3 StarFire EDF "Gran Turismo"... ;)
Good luck with the decision making.

- Dean

[Allan]

Hi Dean, I would be interested to know how it suffered by comparison. How do you compare 2 scopes that are 16000 km apart?

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: These scopes have a cult following world wide and from what I have read they are every bit as good as the AP or Tak 6 inch APO's , just a little less light grasp that's why they hardly ever come up on CN;s or Astro mart their owners seem to hang on to them and are snapped up fast when advertised.
I to are interested in the TEC's performance compared to the 102mm Takahashi , my thoughts are the 102 being smaller was less effected by local seeing ? .

Brian.

[thomqos]

Yes I've considered the TOA-130, but it's current price is just under $7k AUD, which is 50% more than what I can get the FLT-132 for.

So yes unfortunately cost is a factor for me. My main scope is an excellent 10" f6 newtonian which I need to rebuild so it can be mounted on a G-11 which I am also about to purchase; So that's all going to cost me a bit as well.

It's been interesting reading the forums both here & on CN, etc; I've noted that posts by FLT-132 owners generally praise the scope, perhaps with exception of it's focusser where imaging is concerned. However, since my requirements are visual only, it makes the FLT-132 seem like a solid bet. Though not to get off topic, I was nonetheless curious about the TEC-140 as a more affordable alternative to the FLT-132 than the Tak.

My idea behind the APO is to have a smaller scope with 900mm FL which can be handled more easily & cooled quickly for impromptu weeknight viewing.

PS: In 1997 I had paid a deposit on a 155 Starfire EDFS & AP mount; But I ended up getting my deposit back from AP when I got engaged & decided I needed a house deposit instead! So call this my latent desire for an APO. I've never owned a refractor.... yet. :)

[glnn_23]

Hi Russ
Send an email to Yuri at TEC. He will let you know how long a wait you'll be in for.
I have in the past purchased 3 TEC scopes from them. They all arrived safely and packed very securely.
Stunning scopes and great company to deal with.

[Spookyer]

Hi Russ, I have the FLT132. I am into AP so only very rarely use it as a visual scope and I am not experienced enough with visual to give you any serious comment on the visual quality. However I am very happy with it as far as AP goes. I have a feathertouch focuser fitted.

Brett

[Kal]

If you want a TEC then use the order form from the TEC website. No harm in ordering direct from the manufacturer, it's how I got my AP

[thomqos]

I have googled for TEC's website & google returns 'http://www.telescopengineering.com'.

However, when I enter that URL, I get HTTP 403 'access denied'.

I'd like to contact TEC directly, but cannot.....so can someone give me their URL? Is google returning an old URL.. maybe I'll try another search engine.

Brett - Good to hear your happy with your FLT-132; Again, I've not seen any unhappy WO owners, though it does seem the stock focuser has/can been problematic for imaging; Though note I hear WO have just released their 2014 model with an upgraded focuser & they have discontinued the feather touch version; This is the model I have current pricing for... about $4.6k AUD.

[LewisM]

Not to be the harbinger of bad news, but WO FLT132 comes under quite a bit of harsh criticism, and doesn't hold up well under testing on the bench. In case you have never seen it:

http://astro-foren.de/index.php/Thread/10203-three-William-FLT-132-strongly-overcorrected/

And:

http://astro-foren.de/index.php/Thread/?postID=38525#post38525

And:

http://www.insideastronomy.com/index.php?/topic/180-a-telescope-to-avoid-wo-flt132/

Unless WO fixed this, I would keep away. Might be fine visually where the eye is not as sensitive as a camera, but... well. You might get a good one, but unfortunately there are many inferior ones out there.

Is it worth the risk?

If it were me - and I recently had this issue after getting a LARGE tax cheque - is NOT to go down that path. I went Tak all the way, deciding on getting 2 rather than just one - an FSQ85ED for imaging and an FC-100 for visual.

TEC is VERY highly regarded too. Or you could make one of the AP Gran Turismo place holders an offer he won't refuse - many, who have been waiting a decade, have decided against their purchase, and some are offering to fulfill the order if you pay them.

[gregbradley]

I have 2 TEC scopes the 180 fluorite and the 110 fluorite. The 140 is the most popular and Yuri has made something like 600 of them. So its been a spectacular success.

The link is;

http://www.telescopengineering.com/

They often come up on Astromart for about US$5000 or even US$5500 which is high as new they are $5700 plus shipping GST and currency conversion so about AUD$7,400 or so.

For both visual and astrophotography aperture counts so 132mm versus 140mm would give the 140 an edge there. Also Yuri at one stage made lenses for some WO scopes. The 110 as I recall, perhaps others. That tells you something as well.

Either would be great. The original TEC's had the Feathertouch focuser. Not sure what WO uses but I doubt it can match the Feathertouch. A good focuser is critical for astrophotography.

Yuri and Roland Christen from Astrophysics appear to be good friends. Roland himself no doubt would praise Yuri's optics. I doubt he would anyone else.

Marco Lorenzi uses a TEC140 and his images are top notch. Have a look at his site. If you can find any examples from a WO132 to match those I would be very surprised. So its the lens, the focuser, the workmanship, the knowhow. TEC140 is a classic up there in reputation with some AP scopes. I would go the TEC if it were affordable and perhaps wait for a 2nd hand bargain on Astromart. I have seen them go for US$4500 at times. Its also the corrected circle, high quality flattener available. Does a WO132 handle a 16803 chipped camera? It may not and may not have flatteners available that will either.

I have only had one WO scope the 80mm triplet. It was rubbish and the lens was so far off collimated with the focuser it was a joke. A waste of a good lens (made by Lomo).

Greg.

[LewisM]

http://www.telescopengineering.com/ - opens just fine for me, in all browsers.

[casstony]

The TSA120 is quite a bit lighter in weight than the other scopes mentioned - the extra few kilo's can make a big difference in day to day use.
Being an air spaced triplet it does need to be at ambient temperature for at least 30 minutes before observing at med/higher magnification and can take up to an hour to reach full performance.

[Exfso]

Just a thought, the Takahashi TSA120 is apparently an excellent APO as well, I know its smaller brother the TSA102 is excellent, one only needs to look at the Images Paul Haese is getting from his. He recently won the overall David Mailin prize with an image taken with that telescope. It is a couple of grand cheaper than the TOA130 which I have, and that is obviously a lovely scope as well.

[casstony]

While those tests show very bad optics, I think WO had a problem with their lens cells/spacing at the time and I imagine they would have got on top of it very quickly. An email to WO about the astro-foren samples would clear things up. I can't imagine many owners not noticing optics of such poor quality.

[LewisM]

Agree Tony, but if someone decides to purchase one second hand, or even old stock, the risk of getting a lemon still exists.

And if it were me, I would INSIST on the FT focuser with a WO - every WO scope I had (and that was 3), all had the stock, very slippy focuser, which was part of the reason I kept NONE of them.

[thomqos]

Thanks for the insights guys. The 120mm Tak. might be worthy of consideration as a cheaper alternative to the TOA-130... I'll do some research in that direction.

[LewisM]

http://www.astronomy-electronics-centre.com.au/info_tsa120.htm

[issdaol]

For optical and build quality you will be very pleased with the TSA120.

The only thing I would say is that the focuser is a little too tight. Adding on the Feathertouch Micro Focuser or Upgrading to the Full Feathertouch Focuser will make it a dream to use.

For a 120mm Triplet APO this scope is very light and easily portable. With a good portable mount you can literally be setup in under 10 minutes.

In terms of the TEC 140 I have only ever read good reports on these scopes. If you can get one the extra 20mm would be better for visual. However I would be surprise if you could get one cheaper than a WOFLT132?? Last time I checked the WO was cheaper.

As for the WO FLT132 I have read quite a few bad reports. They seem to have had a lot of focuser and lens cell problems.

If you are ever in Canberra and want to look through the Tak TSA120 to see for yourself feel free to PM me.

Cheers

[Larryp]

I used to have a TSA120-absolutely superb!
As for the tight focuser, I added the 7:1 reduction fine focuser, and that solved the problem

[SkyWatch]

Any comparison like that is obviously subjective. However I looked at the Orion nebula and in particular the trapezium at around the same power and with the same eyepieces with both scopes over several nights in each case. In France I was in an area with "the darkest skies in Europe" according to my host. Certainly mag 6 stars were easy naked eye. Seeing was steady: could see good detail on Jupiter.
However, my subjective impression was the view was a bit "soft": and I found it very difficult to see the "E" and "F" stars in the trapezium. When I came home I saw both in late twilight with Orion lower in the sky, from a city location looking across the city, and the seeing was not particularly great... maybe as someone said the smaller aperture can cut through seeing easier- but I looked on several nights in France, and had the same problems each time.
We are talking high end optics in both cases here, and the Tec is a wonderful scope, it obviously has a greater light grasp, 140mm vs 102mm: but to my surprise I felt no temptation to "upgrade". I like the sharp, tight stars and great contrast I consistently get in the Tak.
It would be great to do a "head to head" comparison, but I can at this stage only go by my subjective impressions.

Also wrt to the Williams: they can produce great scopes, but in my experience there are sometimes some quality control issues. I returned a Megrez 110 3 times with QC issues. Nice scopes for wide-field imaging.

- Dean

[casstony]

Yes I think those TEC140's are not very good and current owners should offload them in the classifieds, the more the better :)

[Camelopardalis]

Darkest skies in Europe :lol: so many places claim that, in reality you could probably do better an hours drive from Adelaide :lol: Europe is so badly light polluted overall, although there are some decent nooks tucked in behind mountains here and there. If the host was keen to promote that, then he was probably pretty happy with his scope regardless...but if bench tested, maybe he had a duff one :shrug:

All things considered, the Trapezium is at a distinct altitude advantage in Australia, barely scraping up 40 degrees altitude even in southern France (whereabouts was the site?). I don't own anything premium such as that, but for the price tag I'd want the view to be good even at that sort of (object) altitude...

[UniPol]

Having owned an FLT-132, AP 130 Starfire EDF GT and a TOA-130s I found it came down to the scope that I felt most comfortable with i.e. visual image quality, the feel & looks and perceived pride of ownership.

I bought the FLT-132 direct from WO when it was offered with free shipping and the $500 FT focuser upgrade. The price landed at that time (2009) was around $4300. I couldn't fault the scope, superb finish, brilliant focuser, great hard carry case and excellent views through the eyepiece. After owing it for over a year a second hand Tak TOA-130s came up for sale at a good price so I thought I would try it out. I was hooked on the Tak right from the start, I thought the FLT images were sharp until I looked through the TAK. The contrast and the absolute pin point sharpness of the TOA really stood out. I subsequently sold the FLT and was very happy to keep the TOA. A couple of years ago an AP 130 GT came up for sale so here I went again to see if this may be a TOA killer. To my surprise it didn't do a lot for me. It was well made, a fair bit lighter than the TOA and more portable. I did a side by side comparison with TV eyepieces on M42, Sirius, Canopus et al and couldn't really see any difference at all, in other words, both superb. Silly owning two scopes of the same aperture so I sold the AP for the same price I paid after owning it for a year. The next scope I thought would be an all rounder was an FSQ-106 EDX so I bought it new from Claude and can honestly say it is the goods. It took pride of ownership to a new level and so the TOA was sold off (for a little more than I paid for it).

I missed my TOA-130s and last year as fate would have it, a 9 month old TOA-130NFB came up for sale here on IIS which I couldn't resist. It is simply brilliant, with the large 4" focuser it is now a better balanced scope and doesn't require the tube balance weight that the TOA-130S or TOA-130NS needs. I still have my 10 year old FS-60c which gives me immense pleasure, very under-rated this class of scope in my opinion.

Anyway, "subjective" is the right word when it comes to choosing the best scope for you, we do what we do as the old saying goes.

[Allan]

Dean, thanks for that. I still can't think of another 140mm refractor that would rival a TEC140 though.

On the other hand you also have one of the best 4" refractors ever made, and you sound very happy with it. Cheers

[LewisM]

Agree entirely with Steve's points.

I owned an FQ106EDXIII recently. Absolutely incredible telescope. Only reason I sold it was an unshakeable feeling of guilt with the family. So, I sold it, bought presents for the wife and kids, and still had enough change to buy some stuff for myself. Then the tax cheque came this year, and, well, 2 Taks :D (FC-100 doublet - ORIGINAL 1980's model - and Steve's FSQ85ED, which is no slouch visually!!!). My only ***** ever about Tak's is the asinine amount and cost of adapters needed for simple tasks. Makes them versatile, but also frustrating.

I too thought that WO's were good, until I looked through similar sized Tak's and an APM. Hate to say it, but a quality doublet is better IMHO than the WO's - my good ol' Vixen FL102S is superb with incredible colour correction and a sample test of 0.975 Strehl, and my FC-100 (serial 8111) has a sample measured Strehl of 1/8 wave, or better than 0.98 Strehl, all factors included. (incidentally the FSQ85ED comes in at 0.975 Strehl - identical to the FL102S)

I am absolutely delighted with the selection of scopes I have, and only crave an FSQ106N - the fluorite version of the newer ED series. Just that bit better in terms of controlling scatter and better QC - I will hound Marc until he relents :)

Anyway, have a look here - there may be someone who wants to sell their AP Gran Turismo 130: http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/462755-ap-130-gt-do-i-take-it-or-please-please-help/#entry6020074

And:

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/472553-ap130-already/#entry6161626

Like Steve, I could see no perceivable difference between the AP's I looked through, and Taks. Both also seem t image equally as well (though I do tip my hat to the AP R-H, which seems to be an incredible platform)

Actually, the Skywatcher EON120 and the SW Esprit's come up quite favourably in independent interferometry testing - perhaps consider them also? Price is more than the WO. Basically, the Esprit is a "hacked" FSQ106 clone, just a triplet (seeing the Chinese didn't/couldn'tseem to sort out the collimation woes of the original quads) and in varying sizes.

[SkyWatch]

Actually the sky was pretty dark: SQM around 21.6 which isn't bad at all- and the site is tucked away in the mountains about 140km N of Marseille, very little light pollution. See "Sun Star France": http://www.sunstarfrance.com/. Great spot for astro-photographers on holiday! Ollie (the owner) has lots of "toys" you can use, including a 20" dob if you just want to look, and he is very obliging and on hand to help out.
M42 was 40 degrees up, vs 50 degrees when I was looking at home. Not a huge difference really.

[Camelopardalis]

The owner might be right about the skies there then, there aren't much of that kind of darkness over there at all. Too many people in too little space :lol:

[PRejto]

As a double TEC owner I'm sure my opinion is biased. But, I have to say that my TEC140 is a gem. My first view of Saturn on a particularly fantastic night of seeing was jaw dropping. Sometimes one reads criticism about TECs when used with a CCD as supposedly the oil spaced optics are figured for visual use in comparison to AP scopes. But, again I can't discern any disadvantage photographically whatsoever. Considering the demand and resale price of these scopes it seems a worthy investment. Certain lesser scopes might suffer when it comes time to sell.

Peter

PS Whilst the large TEC focuser is fine (it's on my TEC180) I think I prefer the FT focuser solution. Still an option if you just order the scope from Yuri less the TEC focuser and buy the FT direct from Starlight. Unfortunately the flanges are different so you cannot just swap out the TEC focuser. In any case both are very good and the TEC now has at least 3 automated focusing solutions (Starlight Instruments model will lift 50+ pounds, Optec (25 pounds) and Microtouch (probably about the same as Optec). The first 2 mentioned have bipole motors, the Microtouch unipole.

[thomqos]

Love your rig Peter! Boy, that TEC-180 has me salivating!

How did you get your scopes? I presume you dealt directly with TEC?

[omegacrux]

I'm with you Russell
Wiping the drool off my keyboard !

David

[PRejto]

Well, got to say that the TEC180 was a very lucky find for me. I wasn't shopping for one but was trying to decide what to put on my new MEII mount. I was contemplating an Orion Optices scope and the guy selling the Orion was closing down an observatory at Coona where he had this TEC180. I immediately asked if he would part with the TEC180 and he said flatly "no." A few days passed and I decided that I didn't want to procede with the Orion scope purchase and he came back to me with an offer to sell the TEC180. The rest is history!!

But, I did buy the TEC140 directly from Yuri a few years ago. I carried it back through customs after a business trip to the USA. No dramas there and it traveled in baggage in the normal TEC case.

Peter