Advice on eyepieces needed.

[Moontanner]

Hi all,
I've owned my first decent(small) scope for just over a day now and I'm already wanting the bigger aperture scope I originally wanted to buy. Not right now, but I know enough to know that this hobby is going to stick with me awhile. That's not to say that the smaller scope isn't good enough and I'll get rid of it. I love it for it's portable size and I've already had two viewing sessions in between the weather.
Awesome little piece of equipment.

What I need is some advice on eyepieces. I'm hoping to buy another larger scope in the future and would like to get a set of eyepieces that I could use on both scopes.
What would people recommend?

Is something like this a good starter kit for the dosh?
http://www.bintel.com.au/Eyepieces-and-Barlows/Eyepiece-Kits/Meade-Series-4000-br--Plossl-and-Filter-Set/1120/productview.aspx
( my apologies if this breaks forum rules posting this link. I have no affiliation to bintel)

Thanks for any input.
Ross.

[PeterEde]

read through this. I asked a similar question on the weekend
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=124520

[casstony]

Welcome to IIS Ross. Rather than a Meade or Celestron eyepiece kit, which tend to contain cheap gear for a not so cheap price which you'll outgrow, I'd recommend a Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom eyepiece. It is a very good quality zoom which is useful in a variety of scopes. Depending on the scope being used you might also add a 30mm wide field eyepiece to get wide, low power views or to use as a finder eyepiece.

[ausastronomer]

NO!

The items in both the Meade and Celestron eyepiece accessory kits are not high quality. The shorter focal length eyepieces have short eye relief and overall the kits are poor value.

While I can't recommend choices in the lower price range, as I haven't used any of these products released in the last few years, I can tell you to avoid those kits.

Others more familiar with recent manufacture lower/medium price eyepieces will be able to steer you in the right direction.

Cheers
John B

[dannat]

some good affordable eyepieces are the BST explorer range (astrotech paradigm by another name) they are 60deg fov & all have reasonable eye relief (12mm or better)- can be purchased from telescopes-astronomy.com.au

how much were you looing at spending? often the wide ep that came with your scope will be ok (ie 25mm) its toward the shorter end youll want to add an ep or two (but most likely you wont use/need all the ep's in a whole kit)

[astro744]

Whilst I would normally recommend Tele Vue even to beginners (Their Plossls are excellent value), I think the Meade 4000 series kit is excellent value too and the eyepieces are of far better quality than the 25mm & 10mm normally supplied with telescopes. I have also read that the Meade 4000 series kit has better eyepieces than that sold in the Celestron kit.

I have the 20mm Meade series 4000 Plossl and I think it is an excellent eyepiece, well built and I know it has glass inside unlike the 25mm my son got with his Skywatcher refractor. The 25mm feels so light and I wouldn't be surprised it was made of plastic lenses. The 10mm that came with the refractor is murky and compared to my 10.5mm Tele Vue plossl it is like one is tinted and the other is clear with the latter giving much brighter images.

The eyepiece is half your telescope so a high quality eyepiece will perform better but there are many parameters that come into play. Most people invest in Tele Vue for their highly corrected wide fields but there is nothing wrong with their Plossl design. (I would recommend Clave Plossl but they are no longer produced).

I suggest you ask Bintel for advice as they are a great bunch of guys there in Glebe and will not try and sell you something just to make money; they want you to be satisfied with your purchase and will steer you in the right direction. You can also test the eyepieces in store. Just ask.

[astro744]

I would like to add that good eye relief whilst normally only a consideration to eyeglass wearers can also make for very comfortable viewing for non eyeglass wearers. I would highly recommend the Tele Vue Radians (now mostly discontinued but can be bought used).

I would also seriously consider the Meade Series 5000 HD-60 Eyepiece Set #07736 in lieu of the 4000 series set for better eye relief. It really does make for comfortable viewing and you get 60 deg apparent field instead of 50-52 deg of Plossls.

There are other makes of eyepieces with good eye relief available. Edge correction is where the extra money goes into and it also depends on what telescope you use the eyepieces in as to how good or bad the edge performance is.

[mental4astro]

Hi Ross,

:welcome: to IIS.

The world of eyepieces is a vast one. Thing is eyepieces are designed to perform best in certain telescopes over others. The focus of a telescope is not a mere point, but a 'plain', and not a flat one either. Depending on the optical design of the scope this plain can actually be convex or concave in shape. How strongly convex or concave the shape is also varies, this time in relation to the focal ratio. There are some other lesser point too, but we'll leave these out for now (thank goodness for small mercies! :rolleyes:).

Eyepieces in turn are actually designed to deal best with certain focal plain shapes than others. And as a result where one eyepiece is great in one scope design (and this is important), and can give a totally unusable image in another scope.

Eyepiece design has also followed closely and sometimes far behind telescope technology. New and exotic glass types have allowed newer designs to be developed, allowing for improved image quality with wider apparent fields of view, and much longer eye relief.

All this might seem complex, but really it isn't. It's like comparing a Ferrari F1 race car from 50 years ago to the current car - both go fast, but one much faster than the other and handles much better. But don't expect either to do well crossing over a sand dune. See what I mean?

Even within eyepiece 'types' there is a big difference. Plossl design is not a new one, and was designed for Newtonians, so it is no mistake they perform very well in Newt's. But, make the focal ratio of the Newt faster than f/6, and short falls start becoming apparent. Then, add to the mix that Plossl's ain't all the same, and this really becomes complex (yes, complex only now!). TeleVue plossls have been mentioned. These are not the same beast as the cheapies. And even in the cheapie range there is a difference. Doesn't mean you wouldn't be happy with cheapie plossls either as they are still better than some other eyepiece designs in certain scopes!

But, big $$$ is not the be all and end all. While big $$$ eyepieces are nice, very nice in some instances, they should not dictate your enjoyment, nor your visual preferences. It is a decision you should make on your own after trying out many different ones and reading as much as you can and asking questions.

I won't say which eyepiece to buy. I don't even know what scope you have to make offer an appropriate selection. What I will suggest is for you to get to a star party, formal club one or informal, with your scope, and look to borrow different eyepieces to see how they perform for YOUR eyes. Then you will best equipped to make an eyepiece choice for yourself.

Mental.

[Monstar]

Hey Moontanner,

I'm a beginner too. It will probably take a while for you to get your next bigger scope if you're anything like me because apart from the money side I just can't make my mind up. Sometimes I want a big(Gish) Dob, probably a 10", do I want goto, sometimes, more the tracking really. Sometimes I want an 8 or 10" SCT, something more portable than a Dob.

You don't say which scope you have at the moment, I've got the SW 130p which I've taken off its Dob base and put on a handed down EQ5 mount (no motors or goto) so I might just get an 8" newt to sit on it if the mount will take that for visual (can anyone answer that for ME).

Your right to think ahead about eyepieces that will be good in both set ups, and right as others have said to not totally dismiss plossls. If you do get some of these I say to get a good brand. I bought a 6mm plossl from Australian Geographic cost $39, muti-coated but is a bit dark and I'm sure they've got it wrong and it's 10mm. I pretty sure it's a 10mm as I have since bought a Bintel 9mm for the same price and a Celestron 17 and 32mm for $45 each. These are fully multi-coated and give greats views, very sharp and great contrast. The 17mm is my favourite EP. Just beware of eye relief problems as the power gets higher.

Andrews does some plossls for as low as $19, I can't comment on those as I haven't used them and don't anyone else who has.

Just my tuppence worth mate, and don't be put off asking for help as they're a good bunch on here. The only other thing I can say is get outside and enjoy it, while taking your time so you know you've made the correct decision for your next scope.

[Moontanner]

I've got to say thanks for all the replies. They're a tremendous help for a newcomer like myself.
It's really great to get several perspectives on the subject so I can formulate the best answer for myself, as long as I get the answer right. If not I'll just put it down to experience.

Due to the large number of replies I've taken some notes instead of using the multi quote and I'll do my best to describe my situation and expectations in as few words as possible.

I work with my hands for a living and have a huge amount of respect for well designed and well made equipment. Sometimes I buy cheap items to serve a purpose, and other times I know the true value of an expensive item that is an ongoing asset. I guess that sums up my feelings about the amount of money that I'm willing to spend in this new hobby.

In my experience it can be a silly mistake to show up to a gun fight with a knife, unless the guy with the gun is out of breath from trying to lug the damned thing around. For this reason I'm aiming for 2x scopes and an upgrade to my current bino's.
(I also apologise for the clouds over Sydney ATM. It's my fault for buying a scope and itching to try it out. :thumbsup:)

OK. I bought an etx 105 from GraemeT in the classifieds on this site. F14. I'm extremely happy with this scope as it's a precision instrument with plenty of features and portability. The little fella works a treat too.
I'll be holding onto this one for some time to come and treating it with the respect it deserves. Cheers Graeme.

The scopes that I would like to use for things that require a bigger aperture are the type that can be stored in smaller places and transported easily to a viewing area when I get the chance.
I guess that means I'm looking at scopes with a longer focal length due to the type of design, but that seems to change totally based on the design?

Anyway, to keep it short, I'm going to steer clear of the kits and look to buying something more long term.
I did a fair bit of reading on the Hyperion zoom mentioned and didn't find many negative comments with the latest incarnation. If anyone has any experience with this eyepiece any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks again for the input.
Ross.

PS. Dare I mention filters?:eyepop:

[sn1987a]

"In my experience it can be a silly mistake to show up to a gun fight with a knife"




I prefer to avoid gun and knife fights where possible especially on nights of good seeing :P

[casstony]

Hi Ross, in lieu of replies from other owners here's my 2 cents.

I've always liked the convenience of zooms and have owned a variety of them over the years; the Hyperion is one of the better zooms in that it has a wider field of view than most, varying from 50 degrees at 24mm to 68 deg at 8mm. It has decent eye relief though not quite enough for glasses and produces very sharp images that are just a little less contrasty than Televue's etc.

Though I also own Televue Delos, Pentax XW, etc the zoom still gets used when I want to carry minimal gear or when I want to be able to continuously vary the focal length to find the best magnification/exit pupil to give the best view of faint deep sky objects.

There's no one right way to advise someone on how to set up their eyepiece collection since there are so many variables (location, scope, personal preferences, cost) but I think the zoom makes the choice easier since it may remain useful even after you've gained experience and purchased other eyepieces.

I note 'Astro Pete's' shop has the Baader zoom for sale at $299 but is out of stock atm. You could call to see when it will be back in stock.

As an alternative you could look at the Explore scientific 82 degree eyepieces which are very good and modestly priced, especially if purchased via a wanted ad in the classifieds :).

[Moontanner]

It's not my fault I live in Sydney!

[Moontanner]

Thanks for the advice T. I'll champ at the bit a little longer before I make a decision.
The zoom does look like a useful piece of kit that will keep me entertained for some time to come. It's a good thing I got a few extra guys today to earn me some play money!


On a side note I just discovered what bad atmospheric conditions are. No love tonight.
Twinkle, twinkle little (big) planet....

So much to learn.

Ross.

[Moontanner]

I did just that, as I can swing by on the way home from my current project.
I explained my situation and asked a few questions which earned me a good rundown of each.
I did buy an eyepiece( +filter) that was recommended for my situation and have to say that the gentleman walked to the counter thinking I was just going to take the filter. 45mins of picking his brain and trying out equipment and only a filter?

I have to say the service provided outweighed any cost saving I could've made by ordering online. :thumbsup:

Edit: I figure I've missed out some details for other people who might come across this.
The eyepiece I purchased was the Orion 'Edge on ' jobby at 12.5mm. It, so far has provided much better viewing than the standard eyepiece.
The image is much clearer and flatter than the standard, and leaves me wanting a better wide field eyepiece. All in all, I'm happy with my purchase. For the price ( excluding second hand purchases) I'd say I'm gunna get a fair bit of bang for my buck.
This is what I asked for. I feel I was a very sensible suggestion.

PS. The best bit of info provided during my short visit was the correct procedure for using/checking the solar filter that was included in my 2nd hand scope purchase, followed by the sales pitch on a Coronado PST. I totally want one, but will wait until I can grab one of the big ones