What to do when it's raining/skies are cloudy?

[chellaxy]

Hi all,

It's newbie question time! I'm itching to get out there and point my 8" Dob skywards but Perth has been too cloudy and wet of late.
Could anyone recommend some beginner resources for me to check out? I'd like to build my knowledge and keep learning while I can't get out under the stars! So far I have read "Nightwatch" and "Turn Left At Orion" and I have downloaded Stellarium but I can't really do much with it other than use it as a map.

Cheers,
Chelle

[brian nordstrom]

:D Here or CN;s , AM , SGL , Astronomy Shed , and many others here in cyber space or just playing with your eqiupment indoors , taking photo's of it and posting here , tinkering with gear , there is plenty to do , or you can do like I do and just work :sadeyes: every hour God gives me .

But I hear you Chelle this weather here is starting to wear thin !!! :shrug: .I am starting to get with-drawls , so this is how the poor sod's in Melbourne feel all the time ,, ( Sorry MattT ) .

Brian.

[MattT]

Thanks for thinking of us Melbournites Brian. Just got home from work and I can see a few stars around but Le Tour beckons instead! Not much point getting the scope out….it'll rain later on anyway :( April was the last time I had my scope out, except for 40mins one night in June, so I'm filling in the astro void with more ATMing :D
Really just marking time til late Spring when the weather usually gets better and I have finished the latest round of ATM.
So Chelle lots to do...looking through the scope is only one of them.
Matt

[chellaxy]

Thanks guys!
Haha I'm far too new and too confined to a small apartment to be doing any telescope making just yet!! :D
I was actually able to have a go on the balcony this evening around 7pm ... I located and was able to split Rigil Kent aka Alpha Centauri!! Baby steps :D But I have the fever now so hurry up clearer skies!! Agreed I feel bad for those in Melbourne and places like Tassie too, lots of precipitation and all year round at that :(
I'm long overdue for another watching of Carl Sagan's Cosmos series so that will fill in the rainy nights for now :P

[Dooghan]

You could all come to Central Queensland. From horizon to horizon of no cloud night after night. I'm outside every night at the moment observing. Just loving it :P

[multiweb]

DIY mods and collimation.

[ZeroID]

Stellarium has more to offer Chelle. I use it to plan sessions, a monthly target list or what's available (even if it isn't always done). I do small ATM projects, I've just completed a 2 axis guide scope mount and I've been researching filters and optics for LP options. As Brian says, 'tinkering with gear'.
Imaging gives many more options with processing or practice for future ideas.
But yeah, I know, it gets a bit frustrating.

[chellaxy]

^^ Lucky!!!! :D

Zero that sounds awesome, I think I might start trawling the web for Stellarium walkthroughs and Youtube tutorials, as I'm not even scratching the surface of what can be done with this software!

[OzStarGazer]

I do stuff with my microscope. I just did some microscope imaging next to my heater... :D
PS: Before that I used Starry Night Pro, even before having a telescope. This also looks interesting for beginners: www.worldwidetelescope.org

[noeyedeer]

using stellarium and books to plan ahead. I came across this wiki book en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Observing_the_Sky_from_30°S which seems promising and has a pdf download. you may have to change it to http://www.wikibooks.org/wiki/Observing_the_Sky_from_30°S since I'm on a phone. www.skymaps.org are good planispheres for a given month, and have a list of targets for naked eye, bino and scope, and then using software and books to plan an observing session.

Stellarium is fine for certain things .. I rarely use it, instead preferring an app on the phone which isn't sky safari for when I'm next to the scope. I mainly use stellarium to set up my eye pieces so I know what to "expect" when I'm trying to locate or view an object using it's eyepiece projection filter. play around with it it's quite a good piece of kit especially for free.

matt

also being on a balcony limits your sky view so planning ahead and knowing when and what's visable is probably a handy thing .. least when the skies are clear you won't need to be in a book or on a computer you can be panning the skies with your dob and going wow, that's such and such .. :)

[Renato1]

If you are stuck for something astronomy-related to read during cloudy nights, I'd suggest two books.

Crossen's "Binocular Astronomy" - I still think it the best general observational guide to the sky, and pretty much the majority of what it refers to other than for constellations, you can check out with your telescope when the sky clears.

The other is Dickenson and Dyer's Backyard Astronomer's Guide (3rd Edition).
a. They get you enthused about viewing, and
b. You get enthused about gadgets and accessories to spend your hard earned money on, as well as what to avoid.

Shame about Perth though. When I was last there in 1980, living at Scarborough Beach, they had a great practice - they would turn off nearly all the street lights at around 1 or 2am except for those at intersections. The Milky Way was fabulous and I could locate galaxies with my 10X50 binoculars! Shame they stopped that enlightened practice.

Regards,
Renato

[chellaxy]

That would have been awesome, wish they would consider doing that again across the metro area, even if only for certain nights of the year ... show folks what they never get to see ... the real night sky!!

[Amaranthus]

Get into astrophotography! Then you can spend endless (frustrating, but ultimately satisfying) cloudy nights trying to get your gear to work optimally, your images processed satisfactorily, and other learnings of the dark arts! :wink2:

[ZeroID]

I was trying to avoid suggesting that, you are NEVER short of gear to fiddle with in that case or images to process or re-process trying to wring the last bit of good data out of it.
Also trying to explain the hole in your credit card to SWMBO.
Yes, endless fun .... ;)

In that case I will suggest you buy\read 'Imaging the Southern Sky'.
http://www.southernskyimaging.com/
Now you're in trouble ...:P warned ya !!

[chellaxy]

Haha noooooo!!! I can't deal with astrophotography yet! haha!! Though I really want to! I have heard that Dobs are no good for astrophotography, is this true?

[Amaranthus]

You can use Dobs for planetary imaging with some success, using stacked video images. A good way to get your 'feet wet'...

[ZeroID]

Uh Oh !! The slippery slope has appeared..... hold on to your credit card ... tight !!
Get some good visual time first whatever you do before you contemplate astrophotography. It IS a very frustrating and expensive addiction if you get serious but it's also possible to start small with web cams for planetary and using a standard camera.

[Suzy]

Hi Chelle :hi:.
Get yourself a back-up hobby :P .
I have a very large fish tank which keeps me busy.

Plan your future observing sessions.
Grab a book and list all the objects of interest you would like to tackle (in order of constellation).
For me the thrill of observing is as much in the planning.
You should get some great ideas by visiting the observing forum- plenty of threads to read in there.

To help with selections, I really like Atlas of the Southern Night Sky. It's all pretty much eye candy stuff that's do-able for most people and shows you gorgeous colour pics of the objects. So it gives you a good idea of what to add to that list. Our paddy did a wonderful review of it here. (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/46-444-0-0-1-0.html)

I see that the guys are trying to get you to the dark side :fight:- resist! :lol:
They tried it on me when I first started, their efforts were futile. :P

Having said that, hubby takes pics (with my guidance) thru my 10" dob. Planets, Moon, Sun (eclipses are awesome) and the odd bright star
cluster. We use a T-Ring attached to a Canon DSLR.
Here's an example of May's Saturn-Moon occultation event. We don't do stacking- far too much mucking around for us. But this image is a composite done by a good friend of mine. Saturn is a bit teeny tho :lol:.
So I haven't reallyyyyy crossed the dark side have I. :lol:
166866

And the Venus transit:
166865

[rrussell1962]

Hi Suzy, glad to see you are resisting the temptation to cross to the dark side. I have one foot there sadly and seeing a quick route to bankruptcy! Single shots, no stacking - don't understand the concept, too old maybe. But I am pleased with my single shots attached.

Richard

[chellaxy]

Fantastic photos everyone!
I agree with Brent, I would like to focus on using my eyes properly before I use a camera, hehe. Learn to crawl before I try to run and all that! My friend is a very skilled photographer (with a constant equipment-upgrading compulsion!!) who is interested in taking shots of the night sky though so I daresay that between his equipment, my scope and our combined enthusiasm, some digiscoping will arise!
I'm actually waiting for the Atlas of the Southern Night Sky to arrive in the post! And that is an excellent review as well :D
I saw Saturn on Friday night for the first time through the 8" and I was blown away, just seeing it with one's own eyes is incredible, not that I really have to explain as I'm sure you have all had that moment yourselves!
I'm off overseas tonight so I hope that when I return I can look forward to warmer nights for gazing!

[Suzy]

Hi Russell, those are truly gorgeous shots not using stacking etc. Were they taken thru a dob?

Chelle, oh you will love that book, I am so glad you ordered it.
Regarding your friend who's a photographer- it will happen to your scope :P:lol:.

Don't forget August 4th is the next Saturn/Moon occultation. Not to be missed so I hope you will be back in time. I'm not sure when we'll get to see another one. For instance this year in Australia we get 3 (August one being the 3rd) after 10 years of not seeing one!

[rrussell1962]

Thanks for the kind words re my efforts Suzy, obviously I did not post the entire memory card full of failed attempts! The photo's are taken through a Celestron Nexstar 8SE, although I am curious to find out what could be taken through the Obsession dob, the moon and bright planets obviously, but I think I may be able to grab very bright deep sky objects if I push the ISO up - may have a go at Omega Centauri. As an example of the slippery slope - I sold my EQ6 on here a while ago (part of the domestic deal to fund the Obsession dob) but after my initial attempts at photos with the Celestron I trotted off to buy an Alt-Az EQ6! and am starting to think about auto guiding. The biggest problem I have found is actually getting anything in shot, using a 8x50 finder it is still very hit and miss. I will carry on though, it is very satisfying when a half decent shot appears. My efforts so far leave my totally awestruck and full of admiration for the wonderful results that other people get.

[Suzy]

Hi again Russell,
We all aim for that obsession dob :P:lol:.

Have you seen the book "Imaging the Southern Sky" (http://www.bookdepository.com/Imaging-Southern-Sky-Stephen-Chadwick/9781461447498) by Ian Cooper (*cough* *cough* our fellow IIS-er :D) & Stephen Chadwick?

The forum thread is here. (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=104512&highlight=book+ian+cooper) Ian talks about the book on this thread.

The web page for the book is here. (http://www.southernskyimaging.com/)
"If you're looking for a handy reference guide to help you image and explore the many splendors of the southern sky, Imaging the Southern Sky is the book for you. The work features not only stunning color images, all taken by Stephen Chadwick, of the best galaxies, nebulae, and clusters available to astrophotographers, but also lesser-known objects, some of which have gone largely unexplored! Beginners and experienced observers alike should appreciate the book's remarkable imagery and simple text, which provides concise and accurate information on each object and its epoch 2000.0 position, and also expert testimony on its visual nature. Each object essay also includes a section on technical information that should help astrophotographers in their planning, including telescope aperture, focal length and ratio, camera used, exposure times, and field size. As a charming bonus, the authors have taken the liberty to name many of the lesser-known objects to reflect their New Zealand heritage. Constellation by constellation, from Apus to Volans, Imaging the Southern Sky explores the night sky in a way that should appeal to sky lovers of all ages." - Stephen J. O'Meara, Astronomy.

I have it & it's a fantastic, easy to follow guide- a really great teaching aid for starting out. Every object has a picture followed by a visual observing report plus a guide on how to take the image & what settings to use. Hubby is the one that likes the photography & I love visual so this book is awesome, tho we aren't to that level of imaging yet.

I get a bit excited talking about books as I love them so much, so forgive me if I waffle on a bit when it comes to that subject. :lol: I wish I had my own astro book club where I can pretend to be like Oprah in her book club :P:lol:.
I feel so blessed to have this book signed with a lovely note sent to me by Ian himself; it's one of my treasured books.

[Amaranthus]

I love that book Suzy - it's been my principal inspiration for AP! They give great recipes to get started on a slew of SH objects, and the primer in the back part is useful too. Highly recommended.

[rrussell1962]

Ok Suzy and Amaranthus - 2 recommendations is good enough for me. I will buy the book and slip a little further down the slippery slope! Thank you for the recommendation.

[Suzy]

hehe :lol: I can't believe as a visual observer I've managed to throw someone deeper into the dark side :eyepop:.
I'm supposed to tell you photons are a drug, to train your eyes visually, do sketches, sit outside in the freezing cold bathed in dew with towels at hand to wipe puddles off everything all the time hunched over until your muscles ache......:question:

[ZeroID]

You are a cruel, cruel person, sacrificing others to save your own skin.
:rofl:

[Suzy]

:wink2: :whistle:

[chellaxy]

Bahahaaa you guys are cracking me up!
I just got back home, and was very very very sad that I missed the occultation. It would have looked absolutely incredible through the scope and salt was rubbed into the wound looking at some of the images posted on Facebook and the like by ASWA/Stargazers/Perth Observatory type pages.
I'm itching to get out there tomorrow night for that lovely 3/4 moon, it will be the first chance I've had to see the moon with my new scope so I'm chomping at the bit
WHOAH NELLY!:eyepop:

[Suzy]

Sorry you missed it Chelle :sadeyes: .
Have you like the IceInSpace fb page too?
I do throw some cool stuff on their even if I do say so myself. :nerd: :whistle:

[chellaxy]

Thanks Suzy, I have just liked it! I didn't even think to look for an IIS page over there. I have just emailed an application to volunteer at Perth Observatory, I hope so much that I can land the opportunity! Would learn a lot with them!

[Suzy]

All the best Chelle- I hope you get it, what a cool job that would be :D .

And yayyy for "Liking" the IIS fb page! :2thumbs:

[shelltree]

Welcome Chelle! A little late to this topic but better late than never :D (I'm trying to be a more active member of the IIS society, I was slipping through the cracks!)

As for things to do when the skies are cloudy...well, most of what has already been mentioned here! Planning for observing can be just as fun, I tend to post-it note a million pages with notes and the like or write up observation reports. I have even used print screen shots of Stellarium to star hop to certain objects. Compile and list and any maps you need to find said objects and plan out your next clear night! :D Sometimes I even get carried away and draw the constellations with their main brightest stars affixed with labels etc... :lol: :screwy:

Or learn the Greek alphabet ;)

Agree with Suzy about taking up another hobby, although it DOES get costly :P

I enjoy photography and writing as well so I'm constantly back and forward between my hobbies and sometimes it can get extremely confusing :shrug: That and re-watching Star Trek ;)

I hope you get some clear skies soon!

[chellaxy]

Hi Shelley!
Thanks for the welcome, and for the advice :D
I know what you mean about the pre-planning; my daily planner diary has become a mishmash of rudimentary starcharts with times written next to them :D
Chelle

[rrussell1962]

After recommendations from Suzy and Amaranthus I now have a copy of Imaging the Southern Sky, great book, thanks for putting me on to it. The only problem is that I can't decide whether it has inspired me to devote more time to imaging, or whether to give up in despair and simply set out to observe every object in the book!

[PSALM19.1]

...and just to throw in my 2c worth...there is a danger (:P) when you get hooked trying to take photo's that you miss out on trying to appreciate the sight before your eyes....yes, I also want to stick with Luke Skywalker and stay away from the dark side ! (At least 99% of the time anyway :D)

[raymo]

Rrussell, As neither of your listed scopes is really suitable [ mechanically]
for serious imaging, why not enjoy the sky for now, and perhaps later
trade the 8SE in for a more suitable rig.
raymo

[rrussell1962]

Ah well, yes Raymo good point! I am a somewhat accidental photographer. Casual at best. My main interest has always been visual. I bought the Nexstar as a quick set up scope a few years ago. I am not sure if I will actively follow up on the imaging. If I do I may look at something else. The truth is that the Obsession is not a lot more trouble to set up and the views are incomparably better. For a quick grab and go I also have an old Astroscan - which I got out tonight while there was a break in the clouds. All of them are a long way from my wobbly home built 6 inch Newtonian of 30 odd years ago!

[raymo]

You have the instrument to check out many of the objects in the book, and for a small outlay you can buy the necessary adaptors to hook up
a DSLR camera to the 8SE and take quite good pics. You would also
need a couple of bits of freeware. If you decide to get into serious
imaging later, be aware that it is a steep learning curve, and a great big hole that you pour money into. Good luck.
raymo

[rrussell1962]

Hi Raymo, I couldn't agree more, I am swiftly becoming aware of the very deep money pit that imaging could involve. A couple of my early efforts are posted earlier in this thread. I look at some of the postings in the Imaging forums here and am absolutely awestruck by the dedication and expertise that is apparent in the images. As a first step I am thinking about having a go at the Messier objects over the next 12 months, well the ones visible from Brisbane that is, my rationale being they are easy to find and mostly bright so may stand up well to single shots without stacking or processing. I have had a quick look at software, the problem I face is that I use macs at home which somewhat limits my choice. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[pluto]

I've not used it but Nebulosity runs on OSX and it can capture, stack, and process.
I've seen some great results from those who use it so it must be capable.

[Amaranthus]

Nebulosity 3 is truly excellent for pre-processing, decent for capture (especially if you are working with a manual focuser and manual filter wheel - otherwise go with SGP), and fairly limited for post-processing.

[raymo]

You can have a go at the brightest Messier objects with the 8SE, but it is slow photographically, so the fainter ones would be difficult. The problem is that you are limited to fairly short exposures with it, as alt/az mounts
suffer from field rotation.
raymo

[chellaxy]

I'm also very wary of the expenses of imaging! :D I'm happy just looking for now!! Although I'm not getting much of that done at the moment, it's been so so cloudy here in Perth :(