Aboriginal and Maori starlore & observations

[N1]

I'm interested in indigenous astronomy & would like to do a bit of reading (only when it's cloudy of course ;)) on the Emu in the Sky, Rehua the Chief of Stars, early observations & representations/ records of celestial phenomena.

Any suggestions on what books might be worth looking into?

Thanks

[BlackWidow]

I would contact the Aboriginal Cultural Society in your state. They will be able to guide you as the where you can find that information

[GOTO]

he and Prof Ray Norris are the main movers on this subject. Here is a good link that may help:
http://emudreaming.com
Cheers
Geoff

[pixelsaurus]

"The Astronomical Knowledge of the Maori, Genuine and Empirical" by Elsdon Best could be a start. It is a fairly old book and may only be available on interloan. It has been some 45 years since I last held a copy of this book.

[Eden]

Wikipedia is a surprisingly good source for this information. Many entries pertaining to specific stars and constellations contain relevant lore which is culturally and/or historically significant to Australian indigenous peoples.

Here's one example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus

[N1]

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I agree, Wikipedia is pretty good. I do like the feel of a book though. Will check out the suggested publications/ avenues.:thumbsup:

[pluto]

If you're on Facebook there's a page called "Aboriginal Skies", they post interesting tid-bits regarding the way different cultures, including Australian Aboriginals, view the night sky.
It may not be a source of in depth knowledge about the subject you're interested in but it might be somewhere to ask about books etc.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Aboriginal-Skies/156305897720881

[Zaps]

This is a topic rife with revisionist history, so beware.

[acropolite]

I have a book on this subject, unfortunately I'm away from home ATM, when I get back (early July) I'll look up the title.

[allan gould]

Totally agree with you there, some really loose science there.

[N1]

Thanks. Re science or non-science, that doesn't really worry me. I am looking for interpretations of reality long before science even existed & draw my own conclusions.

Cheers

[Zaps]

But what you'll almost certainly get is a contemporary fantasy reinterpretation of rose-tinted half-memories based upon nothing but the author's cultural, ethnic and political ideologies.

Welcome to the social sciences of today.

[N1]

I'm not interested in politicising early observations of natural phenomena. Nor am I interested in a strict scientific approach, because that is something very few people actually achieve. Early Australian/Polynesian stories about constellations and their "origins" & legends I consider no less valid than those relating to the 88 modern constellations. Their scientific foundation, too, is essentially nil. And yet they are an intregral part of today's astronomy.

[Suzy]

Hi Mirko, +1 for Hugh's suggestion :thumbsup: .
It really is a great site and I regularly share their stuff on our own IIS fb page. Paul Starman Curnow runs it and he knows his stuff. He is a professional astronomer & university teacher in South Australia & does tons of lectures on Aboriginal Astronomy & works at the Adelaide Planetarium. Along with a bit of Greek mythology, I enjoy this also. I'm sure you'd love the page. Meanwhile, Paul is a good buddy of mine so I will message him and ask him for his book recommendations for you. :)

Here is a couple of examples of what Paul posts on the Aboriginal Skies facebook page (there are pictures attached to the posts but I've not included them here):

[GrahamL]

http://www.booktopia.com.au/search.ep?author=Jennifer%20Isaacs

australian dreaming does have a chapter (10 pages ) devoted to stories relating to the stars and planets , its a great read though as is the whole book.

[Suzy]

Hi again Mirko,
Paul Curnow just got back to me. I also sent him the link to this thread so that's what he's referring to at the beginning of this reply. This is what he said:

[Zaps]

The problem I and many others have with these topics isn't related so much to the science, or lack of it. It's a result of the "miraculous" sudden appearance of, for instance, a native astronomy that often didn't previously exist, in literature or spoken language, and only appears to have very conveniently sprung into being simply to fulfill the requirements and demands of some contemporary revisionist cultural, ethnic or political agenda.

For the record, I'm not only referring to Aboriginal or New Zealand Maori history; it's become a common trend worldwide.

[N1]

Hi Suzy,

Some great resources there, thanks for those:thumbsup: It makes for interesting reading, and I'm not worried whether it's called science or whatever. Some interesting background is to be gained, and that's what matters. The mere thought that people were looking at these same stars thousands of years ago and put them to practical use as well as the passing on of knowledge, I find fascinating.

Cheers

[ZeroID]

The Maori have had a strong astronomical culture for many yeaqrs. Matariki, the Maori New Year has just started here. Signified by the first appearance of the Sthn Plieades in the predawn sky. It marked the middle of winter and the preparation for next years plantings and plans. They navigated from their island homes 800 years ago by sun and star guidance.
Almost all cultures on the past took notice of the passing of the seasons by astronomical means even if they would not be considered as 'science' by your definition. Stonehenge, the Sumerian observatories of rocks and slopes, alignments of the pyramids etc etc etc.
I find it interesting to discover how our ancient forebears used the limited resources they had ( by todays standards) to make some amazing deductions about the world and the sciences we now know.

[Zaps]

As I said, the question is not "Is it science?" The question is "Why in most cases was there essentially zero awareness of all this alleged 'Ancient astronomical knowledge and starlore' before only very recent times?"

[Rob_K]

Please provide documentation of this Zaps. Especially documentation of "zero awareness" within First People's cultures.

Cheers -