What do you think?

[OzStarGazer]

I was thinking of buying this scope as a present to myself by the end of the year: http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-046A. It was recommended to me here some time ago.
Do you think I would be able to take good pictures of the moon with my Nikon D5100 in prime focus? Maybe something like the pics on this page? http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=96215
Probably a bit bigger if I look at the specs?
By the way, does anybody here own that Vixen? Anything else you would recommend for detailed pics of the moon but also light/portable? OTA is fine, as I have a good tripod.
Thanks. :)

[cometcatcher]

I don't own one, but Vixen make good optics and that would make a very fine scope to image the moon with at prime focus. You would need a very solid tripod though. That Vixen is nearly a metre long.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, I've got this tripod. I think it should be good enough. It is pretty stable.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Nikon-Camera-Tripod-65-w-Ball-Haed-Carrying-Case-for-Canon-Nikon-DSLR-SLR/250922962955?_trksid=p2047675.c1000 11.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC .FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D201401070900 50%26meid%3D7208576960661328753%26p id%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107090050% 26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D19086560 7533 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Nikon-Camera-Tripod-65-w-Ball-Haed-Carrying-Case-for-Canon-Nikon-DSLR-SLR/250922962955?_trksid=p2047675.c1000 11.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC .FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D201401070900 50%26meid%3D7208576960661328753%26p id%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107090050% 26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D19086560 7533)
The maximum weight it can hold is 4 kilos, so it should be fine, as the Vixen is under 3 kilos.

[omegacrux]

I have owned one of those scopes
They are really good value they have a thread on them so your t-piece can screw straight on
Long enough that there's no CA
My only gripe was the grease on the rack and pinion sticky s@%t
Gso make a 10/1 2in focuser straight fit
I liked it , only sold it to buy an ed80

David

[cometcatcher]

Once you add weight of camera and telescope, it would be near the max for that tripod. I don't want to put you off, but I reckon the tripod would struggle with it.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, David. I agree. It seems to be good value for the money.

Kevin - the scope is 2.8 kilos and the camera (body only) about half a kilo, so it should be fine I hope. It is probably better if the tripod is not all the way out though.
However I had also looked at this http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-black-diamond-bd1021-ota-refractor-telescope.html. They don't mention the weight, but I found out on another site it is about 3.5 kilos. With the camera it would indeed be a problem...

[el_draco]

The scope is good but, on a tripod, the effects of any vibration will be magnified ALOT. If you are only interested in lunar photography, you can do good stuff through a small Dob, probably have better stability, and a lot more options. Of course, there are downsides as well and you can read innumerable threads on the topic of "what makes a good scope"

I owned a Black Diamond 120. Nice scope, but same issue. Long OTA equals lots of movement unless the mount is VERY sturdy
M2cW

[Steffen]

The weight isn't primarily the issue, you can probably put 10kg on that tripod and it won't collapse. A telescope mount/tripod's main job is to hold the scope rock-steady otherwise you won't see much at the eyepiece among all the shaking and vibrations.

Also, the ball head will have to pivot the load above itself so there won't ever be a stable position for the scope. If you loosen the clamp the scope will flop to one side, if you tighten it the scope will slowly creep. This is a recipe for frustration. You want an isostatic mount, meaning you can loosen it to the point where it is easily moved around, and the scope will stay right where you point it (assuming it's reasonably well balanced).

I think the scope you've chosen will be much happier on a tripod and mount like this one, from the same site: http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-033A3

If you phone Steve he might even make you a package price :thumbsup:

Cheers
Steffen.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks for the new replies! :thumbsup:
I already have a small dob and have taken nice photos of the moon, but I now wanted more details and larger craters...

I am using the Nikon tripod with the small refractor somebody gave me for the solar eclipse. I still have it because they haven't picked it up yet. It is probably half the weight of the Vixen (and less than half its length), but I see what Steffen is saying because occasionally I did notice the problems he mentions. They can be fixed (at least I could fix them with the small Celestron), but it is frustrating if you are just about to take a nice shot and notice the scope is not stable.

I will think about it a bit longer. I wanted to buy it after winter anyway as it is starting to be chilly at night here and I wanted to enjoy it for hours... ;)

I could try my tripod and if it doesn't work I could buy the other one, but then if I buy them separately they won't give me any discount for sure...
I could also sit while viewing (it is more comfortable anyway :)) and keep the tripod short(er) I guess in order to increase stability?

[mental4astro]

Have you tried using a barlow with the dob for your photos? Surprisingly, the stock standard 1.25" 2X barlow GSO makes is pretty good.

Not knowing what dob you have (if I've read it, sorry I can't remember what it is), it most likely will have more aperture than this Vixen refractor, and the resulting f/ratio in the dob will be a little faster. If you have a barlow (2" if you have one), you will get a handle on what it is like to deal with a long focal length without expense. You are used to the workings of your dob, so the learning curve will be shorter too.

I hate to say this, but that tripod you have will not be able to deal with that Vixen scope, and forget the camera. A ball head is not made to take such and extended/long item, and the moments of inertia will overwhelm it. As Steffen said, you will need to overtighten it all the time, which will shorten its life, and will only be a source of frustration. "Isostatic" systems are what you need. These are ready made, like the Vixen tripod Steffen linked to, or you can make an isostatic jig for a standard photo tripod like I made for an 80mm refractor - see pics below. When the tube is balanced in alt, I leave the clamps open when I'm using the rig, and the scope stays put. The second lot of pics shows the same sort of isostatic jig I made for an AZ3 mount with an 100mm refractor. The pics show if nothing else, how an isostatic situation works - like the Vixen Porta mount, the altitude pivot point is in line with the centre of gravity of the scope loaded with stuff. This way there is no excessive force being placed on the altitude bearing as it is a balance situation. Though I still think that an f/11.4 80mm refractor is too much for a photo tripod.

I have a 2" 2X ED GSO barlow you can borrow for the exercise. I don't use it much - haven't in over a year.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, Alex. That looks interesting. Would a carpenter be able to do that for me?
Yes, I used a Barlow for a few photos, but I don't really like the photos... They are not 100% rubbish, but I think they could be better with a refractor because refractors are better for moon and planets, particularly considering I can use prime focus. I tried with my dob, but it needs an extension tube, and then it is too much weight and it loses balance, so I lose my target. The attached photos have been taken with a Barlow in afocal mode. I don't really like them, but I don't know how much they can improve in afocal mode with a small dob...

[OzStarGazer]

Oh, I forgot to say... it's a Skywatcher Heritage 130p.

[mental4astro]

No carpenter needed - if you have a saw and a drill, that's all you need. If you are not confident with a saw, your local 'bunnings' type hardware store could have a cutting service. Many timber yards do too. Or ask a mate over, ask him to bring a saw and his drill, and offer him a beer or two for 10min work. All you would need is a few bolts, washers and wingnuts. For me DIY needs to be easy, :)

Yes, your dobbie is really only suited to afocal photography. It is a fine instrument, but not for loading a camera onto it.

There is one other option you might like to consider before you splash out on a new scope:

Adding a webcam to your telescope (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-431-0-0-1-0.html)

This little webcam won't test your dobbie weight wise. But it will allow to attach a camera straight onto it. Tracking isn't necessary either - the software that is linked to in the article will correct for drift. Adding a barlow is no problem either, :thumbsup:

You have a computer, and if you don't have a webcam as noted in the article, they cost bugger all, and a mate could have one lying about doing nothing you could get for nix. I made one of these little webcams too, and are blooming brilliant! Used it with my dobs too. The pics below a just single frames, no stacking or other post processing. The webcam drivers will allow you to vary exposure too which is necessary to bring up Jupiter's moons. These were all taken with my 17.5" push-pull dob - no tracking here. The pics were taken a few years back, you can see this as Saturn's rings are very shallow here.

On eBay, you can also find nose pieces that attach to the webcam and fit into a 1.25" focuser, (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=telescope+webcam&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=1.25%22+webcam+adapter&_sacat=0) :thumbsup:

Webcams today are a bit of a forgotten tool. They are still very powerful and for some people provide all the astro photos they need.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, I live close To Bunnings, so I could ask them. :) (I don't have a saw or a drill... :()
Oh yes, I was thinking of a webcam too. I was waiting to see more reviews of the new Celestron 3 MP webcam.
There was a thread started by Ian where I mentioned some options I was considering. The cheap Chinese digital eyepiece has very good reviews on astronomy boards (some say it is better than the Toucam!) and is definitely an option, although it only has a resolution of 1.3 MP, so I wouldn't be able to enlarge the images too much. I wanted to see big craters... :)
A webcam also works with a refractor of course, so it is a good investment anyway.

[OzStarGazer]

Maybe this is an option too, as it comes with a mount...
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/Sky-Watcher-SW909/1825/productview.aspx
It's even cheaper at Ozscopes... However it is only for beginners... :(

[Regulus]

This was taken on David's (Omegacrux) Vixen 80 like the one ur looking at. It isn't perfect but that was down to the seeing and the lack of fine tuning in a basic Rack&Pinion focuser. The GSO 2 speed is a great addition to this scope.
No blue or reds visible on the moon so CA is well controlled. It's a really nice scope and you can't complain about the price.
Trev

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks. May I ask which mount or tripod you used?

[Renato1]

I agree entirely. I've been using the Bintel equivalent to that mount, and can't imagine being without it.

It's far superior to the AZ3 Mount.
Regards,
Renato

[omegacrux]

That was on a SkyView alt-az . Thanks Trevor i knew I had a pic somewhere
Sorry I'm not a fan of the az3 .
Vixen porta waaaay better , SkyView's are good , they both have better fine tune controls and more stable

David

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, David.

[OzStarGazer]

I still have time because as I said I want to buy it after winter, but I also tried to have a look at Andrews (unfortunately not easy to navigate when you don't know exactly what you want), and I found this which is cheap, although the aperture is small (however this is not so important for moon viewing). I doubt it is really BD because its definition is SW and not BD, but it is a good price... I think there is some confusion about what BD really is, as we already discussed in another thread...

***Super-low price!!***
Skywatcher Black Diamond
70 x 900 AZ3...$199
Yes, A$199!!
In stock!
(SW709)
70mm refractor on the strong AZ3
alt-azimuth mount with tripod.


Or


Skywatcher Black Diamond
90 x 900 AZ3...A$349
Plenty in stock!
Shipment just arrived!

High performance 90mm refractor on the AZ3 alt-azimuth mount/tripod!

[cometcatcher]

Skywatcher is the brand, Black Diamond is just the paint scheme. For instance I have a Skywatcher Black Diamond ED100.

[omegacrux]

You could also put up a wanted ad in Icetrade
The Vixen a80mf on a vixen porta is probably a better combo costs a bit more but worth it
Like a lot of us say the mount is critical !
Get a solid mount first .
Otherwise you will be upgrading later

David

[OzStarGazer]

Yes, I could put up an ad after winter... :)

PS: Re BD, I seem to remember that somebody (Julian?) said that BDs are very expensive? Yes, I just checked and it was Julian:
But my point is that the cheapest "legitimate" price for a genuine 80 mm Sky-Watcher Black Diamond that I can confirm is around $1,000 (for just the tube, focuser, diagonal and 1 x eyepiece - no tripod or mount). This makes me think that what is being offered is not a Black Diamond, so it also makes me wonder what else is incorrect in the ad. (E.g. maybe it's not even a genuine Sky-Watcher?)
On the other hand, it might well be a genuine Sky-Watcher SW80 (but not a Black Diamond), and it may well suit you just fine.

[omegacrux]

That $1000 would be for the ed80 which is apochromatic , which means it has no chromatic abborations ie no false colour , eg a lot of cheaper scopes when looking at the moon will give a halo of blue around same with Jupiter I find it too annoying

David

[cometcatcher]

Black Diamond is just a colour, nothing more. The old Skywatcher scopes used to be blue. They made some gold ones too. These days you can get both APO and achro in BD colours. Same goes for the old blue OTA's. You can't tell what the glass is by the colour scheme - except maybe for the gold ED80's. I can't remember, but I think the goldies are only APO's? Not sure on that last one.

[OzStarGazer]

Oh, I see. Yes, I have seen photos of blue SW on some sites (I think also astroshop). Maybe they just haven't updated the photos. It is possible that there is some confusion because the colours have been changed and now most SW seem to be BD while some remember that that colour used to be for the higher range in the past.

[OzStarGazer]

Does anybody here know what brand this is?
http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-024A

I was just curious to know, but I don't think it is good enough for an adult, even a beginner, and the photo of the moon on the background is probably just an "ad photo"... A bit misleading if one doesn't realize...

[julianh72]

You won't get that view with a 70 mm "department store" telescope! A few billion dollars and an Apollo space mission are necessary to get pictures that good! (Even the Hasselblad cameras that the astronauts took to the Moon were worth thousands!)

[OzStarGazer]

Exactly. The whole description is misleading... I feel sorry for the kids who think they will really see what is in the description!

[OzStarGazer]

Sorry I am such a pain today... I am sick and have fever and cannot do my work but cannot rest in bed either... So I am browsing the Internet and thinking about my future scope...

I have found these pics taken through the SW909 (which is pretty cheap and includes a mount!) and think they are not bad at all.
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8541085667/albums/moon-om-d-em-5-thru-skywatcher-sw909-telescope-on-az3-mount/slideshow?start=3
Not even the second one with a bit of blue (CA) is bad in my opinion...

That's all for the moment... ;)

[Regulus]

The mount was an EQ5 convert to Alt-Az. The exposure time for this was short and tracking not needed
Camera was a Canon eos 600d
The Sky Watcher 90x900 would be good too but more prone to Chromatic Aberration than the Vixen 80. Celestron do a achromat 90x1000 too that would be good for Luna and Planetary viewing too with minimal CA and that comes with an adequate beginners Alt-Az mount
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/refractor-telescope-celestron-astromaster-90az.html

[omegacrux]

I stand corrected , I thought that was a pic I email'ed Trevor
Sorry Trevor

David

[Regulus]

Not a problem David - ya seen one luna photo, ya seen em all, eh?
:lol:

[OzStarGazer]

Thank you! It looks like a very good choice and is even lighter than the SW in spite of being longer. (Maybe it's the mount that's lighter, but it's better anyway.) :)

PS: I think I will buy it in September (if I decide to go with it), so I will have it for the next Blood Moon. I have missed the first one due to angry clouds and rain gods.... :(

[OzStarGazer]

By the way, if the Celestron mount/tripod is a bit shaky I could use vibration suppression pads I guess? Seben seems to have the best price.