Which telescope?

[Misplaced]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum but not new to astronomy I have been interested in it since about the age of 10 and learnt most of the constellations that you could see from the UK. Anyway, I am no living in Canberra, Australia and trying to learn the constellations you can see hear.....seems funny to see Orion on his head ;)

I could really do with some advice on which telescope to get with view to maybe delving into Astrophotography as I have a Nikon DLSR. Searching the web i have found the following telescopes and would like honest and objective opinions: -

Meade LX80 6" f10 SCT with a Ex3 - Deluxe Mount - $1,199 from Bintel
Bintel f4 8" Reflector Skywatcher EQ5 mount - $999 from Bintel
Bintel f5 8" Reflector Skywatcher EQ5 mount - $999 from Bintel

My top budget would be $1,300 and I do realise that I would need to purchase a T-ring and T-ring adaptor for the astrophotography.

I was also considering buying a Orion EQ3 Dual axis drive and would like your thoughts on whether this would be a good investment.

My experience with telescopes is limited as I could only afford a 4" refractor when younger and i no longer have that.

The reports i seem to be coming across for the Meade LX80 do not seem promising, though :(

Has anyone bought telescopes from Andrews Communications? If so, what was their service like? The service from Bintel seems to have good reports but they are more expensive than Andrews Communications :(

Apologies for such a lengthy post!

Mis

[brian nordstrom]

:welcome: Craig, the three scopes you mention are all good scopes .
Have you used an EQ mount before ? , if so if it was me it would be the 200mm f5 , a great all round scope especially with a drive attached.
Like you said the Meade is a bit of an unknown , probably a great scope and easier to set up and find objects .
I have dealt with both Andrews and Bintel and both are very good with their return policies so you don't have to worry there.

Good luck with your choice and please let us know what you choose .

Brian.

[Misplaced]

Hi Brian - Thanks for the quick response and NO I haven't used an EQ mount before.

I keep arguing with myself as well over whether to just get http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/Meade-Lightbridge-Deluxe-12--Dobsonian/74/productview.aspx

But that would then limit me if I decided to go for Astrophotgraphy:sadeyes:

I did forget to mention that I would probably go to Mount Stromlo to do some of my observing and so ease of portability would have to be a consideration.

Does anyone know how easy a the above Dobsonian is to port?

Mis

[rustigsmed]

Hi Craig and welcome,

As far as a telescope goes i would recommend the f5 newt, you can get away visually without a coma corrector and some cropping on photos will take care of the rest, the f4 you will need one definitely.

However, I will suggest you stretch the budget and get a HEQ5 rather than the EQ5. it is a much sturdier mount and if you want to image you really need the HEQ5. visually the EQ5 will be ok. Maybe look for a second hand model?

Cheers,

Russell

[MattT]

Hi Craig,
I use an EQ3 with dual axis drives with a 4" ED f9 refractor on it. Wouldn't put bigger than the 4" on it though, it is very portable. Of the scopes you mentioned the 8" f5 on the EQ5 is the best, add dual drives and you should be happy. There is an EQ5 in the telescopes and mounts adds now for a steal of a price.
Andrews v Bintel :shrug: much of a muchness had great service from both.
Matt

[pluto]

I agree with Russell, if you think you'll end up doing astrophotography get the HEQ5. I started with an EQ5 and whilst I learned a lot and got some nice images I was always fighting the mount. I've had an EQ6 for a while now (similar mechanics to HEQ5) and I wish I'd got it sooner.

[Misplaced]

Thanks for all the quick replies.

Basically what you are all saying is if I can afford to get this

http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/Bintel-BT200-f/5-HEQ5-Pro-GOTO/1006/productview.aspx

I should be okay for good general viewing of the Planets, Moon, Nebula and it should be good for Astrophotography?

Just need to check out Andrews Comunications now for the same scope and tripod and then see if I can get the T-ring and adaptor :sadeyes:

Did you find that you could get a deal with either placed on the T-Ting and adaptor?

Mis

EDIT: - Just checked Andrews and they have this one which is better or are they basically the same?

BD 200 x 1000P with HEQ5PRO (white)heavy duty "Go-To" mount and V3.0 "Go-To" hand controller

***New low price***

$1699 AUD
Black Diamond model!
In stock!

[raymo]

Many Newts are not suitable for AP, as they will not come to prime focus.
The Black Diamond Newts do, but if you decide to go with the Bintel
offering, make sure that it does come to prime focus.
raymo

[rustigsmed]

Hi Craig,

Yep thats what I was suggesting.

I wouldn't rule out a second hand option if the budget is tight - well its something to consider anyhow - be sure to have a look in the classified section. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9
For example in queensland there is a HEQ5 and refractor package for $1000 (although it is a hike), in NSW there is a EQ6 for $1000.

Raymo raises a good point re: reaching focus with an eyepiece AND dslr. worth checking with the sellers.

Cheers,

Rusty

[Misplaced]

Well as they are both the same price I will probably go with the Black Diamond Newtonian. Can you or anyone confirm that the mount with the Black Diamond is suitable for the scope, please?

[raymo]

The HEQ5 mount is eminently suitable for an 8" Newt, especially for
the black diamond, as they are from the same manufacturer. If you go with that one, still check that it comes to prime focus, just in case there has been any change in construction.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Okay just been reading a few posts on the forum and saw the article about Dobsonians being okay for Astrophotography - what about this one?

Genuine Skywatcher
COMPUTERISED
Black Diamond Flex-tube

10" "Go-To" Dobsonian

$1699 AUD
In stock!

Features Crayford 2"/1.25" focuser

Any advice more than welcome ;)

Mis

[Marios]

Hi Mate

The Go to Dob is purely for visual maybe some moon photography at most.
You have been given good advise, if you want to do photography get the EQ mount.

[seeker372011]

Yes if it is astrophotography you are keen on get the EQ mount

One thing no one seems to have mentioned is that for long exposure astro imaging.. Especially at the 1000 mm focal length you are considering.. You will need to auto guide to get any decent exposure

This means guide scope guide camera possibly the GPUSB box a laptop to control everything and some software.. Guiding And camera control software

This will be additional costs that you must consider if you want to do much more than planetary or widefield with your camera piggybacked onto your telescope

Does your Nikon take video? That would be useful for planetary work

Can I suggest that before you pull the trigger you visit your local astronomy club and see how imagers are set up and the complete set of bits and pieces you need.. If you have not already done so
You will come to a much more informed decision .. And certainly worth the wait
I know once you have made the decision to buy a telescope the urge to act immediately is overwhelming but do more than desk research
If at all possible

[Misplaced]

Thanks for the reply.

I have no idea what a GPUSB box is?? Can you explain, please? The mount I am considering has a 'G0 to' function which on the face of it to me would mean that when the scope is aligned properly it will go to an object when requested - have i understood this part correctly? Would it not be able to track that object as well?

My Nikon is able to take video - can you please expand on why this would be useful for taking images of the planets? Or point me in the direction of an 'idiots guide' to astrophotography?

thanks

Mis

[Marios]

Not all go to are equal you have to factor in the mount AZ vs EQ.
The both will go to an object and track it, however only the EQ will turn
Your scope with earths rotation this will keep the image being photographed
In one place without star swirls. AZ type will not compensate hence only used for visual or very shot video or photography. Usually under a minute or so before star trails become appaeent.

[Den]

Hi Craig ,

Sent PM

[pluto]

A GPUSB box is a device that lets you connect your mount to a computer. It's not the only way to do it and, while it's the nicest way to control your mount, it's not actually necessary. You can use a HEQ5 Pro GoTo mount fine without connecting it to a computer at all.

If you want to take exposures longer than about 90 seconds you'll need an autoguiding setup. In a basic form this consists of a small telescope attached to your main scope with a small camera. You connect the camera and your mount to a computer and use some guiding software, like PHD, to track a star and issue corrections to your mount if the star starts to move.

If it was me I would get your head around getting your gear setup, collimating, drift aligning, and taking 1 minute exposures before worrying about autoguiding and running the mount from a computer.
You can get some great images with a DSLR with exposures around a minute, just check out some of the great stuff in the astrophotography section here on IIS.

:D

[rustigsmed]

Hi Craig,

With a HEQ5 and the f5 newt, you will be able to get exposures around 30 secs. Longer if you have really good polar alignment and may reach 1 minute.

A DSLR usually doesn't allow computer control of the shutter for longer than 30seconds unless you have a GPUSB http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/products_gp.htm

But to go longer than that one minute exposure you will need to have an autoguider - which is another camera locked onto a star that detects if its moving off target and 'corrects' the mount. there are a number of ways to achieve this the most common way would be a package like this http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/Autoguiders/Orion-Mini-Autoguider-Package/403/productview.aspx (camera mounted to small telescope mounted on your telescope).

You can get these down the track - they aren't essential right now. As you are able to get going on photography with exposures under 30 seconds. here are my photos from a goto dob with around 20 second exposures https://www.flickr.com/photos/80336656@N07/

Planetary 'photos' are done mostly by taking a video of the planet for a couple of minutes and using software to remove blurry frames and stack into a single image.

Cheers

Rusty

[Misplaced]

That seems a sensible way to go to me :)



Again great advice - and my DSLR takes video so maybe able to get some good images once I have become aquainted with my scope and camera better:D;)

[SkyWatch]

Hi and welcome to Oz!
Personally I would look at the heavier mounts (EQ5) with a bit more aperture for general viewing, although I wonder how well the EQ5 would handle an 8" OTA for photography. (You don't want to go any heavier than 50% of the rated capacity of a mount if you want to image with it, and I think the EQ5 is a bit light.) You would certainly need to get a drive if you want to image- but you will need to make sure you can run it from a computer for guiding. If you are going to spend a couple of hundred more for a drive anyway, can you stretch your budget and go for the "go-to" version at Andrews?
In terms of the actual viewing experience: the 8" f5 would probably be the best all-rounder. f4 is very fast, and cheaper eyepieces may struggle to give you a good image away from the centre of the field.
The 6" SCT is very forgiving of eyepiece quality because of its long FL, but gives a much narrower FOV. It is a tried and true OTA though and should give you good images- my concern is the light mount.
Regarding Andrews: they have always done the right thing by me, and are very good with their service.
Good luck!

- Dean

[Misplaced]

Thanks for the welcome Dean.

I am looking very favourbly on the following scope after the advice I have received on here. It is from Andrews and from what others have said they are pretty good. I am just awaiting an answer from them on the Prime Focus and if that turns out ok I will then get into some negotiations with them.......well will try;)

Do you reckon the mount with this scope is adeqaute? others seem to think so - do you agree? I know a larger mount would be ideal but most reckon the HEQ5Pro will be fine.


BD 200 x 1000P with HEQ5PRO (white)heavy duty "Go-To" mount and V3.0 "Go-To" hand controller

***New low price***

$1699 AUD
Black Diamond model!
In stock

[raymo]

Naryan, I purposely haven't mentioned guiding; so many newbies are encouraged to buy all sorts of expensive gear, and run before they can walk. Give him a chance to learn his way around his new mount, and get some unguided pics under his belt, then he can decide where he wants to
go from there.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Here, here......lol

Baby steps as they say :)

The 'Boss' has okay'd the spend on the Black Diamond 8' with the HEQ5Pro :D - just waiting for Andrews to reply to my email re prime Focus :shrug:

Thanks for the help guys I will no doubt be asking alot more questions today, tomorrow and into the future.

Mis

[Renato1]

Hi Craig,
Welcome, I am sure you are having as much fun learning our constellations as I had learning yours nine years back - I just chuckle when I see Orion and Leo the right way up over there.

First things first. Astrophotography isn't easy (can be darn frustrating actually), and as far as I am concerned wastes heaps of valuable time when you could otherwise be doing something useful - like looking through a telescope.

Does your Nikon DSLR have Live View off the sensor, with the ability to magnify the image? If not, you will struggle trying to get focus, even with a magnifying eyepiece. But if it does, you won't have a problem.

Quite frankly - now that you know my bias towards visual astronomy - my suggestion is that you give consideration to buying say a cheap second hand 8 or 10" dob off Ebay for around $300 to $400 (they show up all the time), muck around with it for several years viewing all our celestial show pieces, and then give consideration to getting something better or suited to astrophotography - you'll probably recoup most of your money if you put your telescope back on Ebay.

Regards,
Renato

[Misplaced]

Not too sure what you mean here? It has a Live View facility where you can view the image live before you take the picture but this can be switched off using the LV button.

Is that what you are referring to?

Cheers,

Mis

PS - I enjoy a challenge ;)

[Renato1]

Yes, that's the Live View. I'm not familiar with Nikon, because I use Sony which has a fast LV (which is hopeless with stars), and a slower sensor LV which is good with stars. I assume that you can you magnify the LV image say eightfold to enable manual focusing?

Regards,
Renato

[Marios]

Some must see videos before you buy..

Astrophotography P2: Choosing & Using Telescope Mounts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQB6UnrTEEM&list=UUx_N3KiUvb4M2-NyKRugXmw


Astrophotography P3: Guiding Your Telescope

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW8NyT3r2LU&list=UUx_N3KiUvb4M2-NyKRugXmw

[SkyWatch]

I have no doubt that this is a nice telescope, and the HEQ5Pro is a very good mount: a significant step up from the EQ5. It will last you for many years!

Visually this will be a very good setup, once you get used to the idiosyncrasies of using an equatorial mount, (and twisting the focuser into the best viewing position!). For imaging, the OTA + camera + guider will test the mount's ability, as the combined weight will be well over 1/2 its rated capability of 14kg: the OTA alone is over 8kg. (Most APers will tell you that it is best not to go over 1/2 to ensure best stability for long exposure images)

However, it will still be capable of giving you some lovely images.

As a number of people have intimated, there is a steep learning curve for using telescopes and particularly imaging, with lots of trial and error along the way, but if you are willing to keep at it you will have a lot of fun and get some really good results. (Anyway, where's the fun if everything is too easy?!)

All the best,

Dean

[raymo]

I don't agree with Dean's opinion regarding max. load for imaging. By his
reckoning even an NEQ6 would barely be man enough to carry an 8" Newt and it's necessary imaging accessories. My HEQ5 happily carries my
8" Newt plus electric focuser, DSLR, and finder; a total of 10.2kg, which is
approx. 75%, which has been the accepted approx. max for the 50+ years that I 've been imaging. I sometimes replace my finder with my 80mm achro, and it carries that o.k. too, a total of about 12.3kg.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Still no reply from Andrews Communications re Prime Focus:mad2:

[raymo]

Try a phone call.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Difficult from work and I don't usually get home until after they have closed :(

Mis

[Misplaced]

Okay Andrews has just got back to me with this reply: -

We have had some customers experience problems reaching focus with the Skywatcher 200x1000P OTA.

For an f/5 imaging OTA, I recommend the Guan Sheng GS-630 which is optimised for imaging. We sell this OTA for $429.

Does anyone have any opinions on the Guan Sheng (I have never heard of them):P

The one I fancy from that range is this: -

Guan Sheng GS-630
8" f/5 imaging Newtonian on Skywatcher HEQ5PRO "Go-To" equatorial mount with tripod

***Super low price!***

$1599 AUD
In stock!
Why pay A$1699 elsewhere?

Absolutely outstanding quality and value 200mm x 1,000mm parabolic mirror Newtonian reflector on the
HEQ5PRO extra heavy duty equatorial mount with adjustable tubular stainless steel tripod legs.
Photo shows a mount
similar to HEQ5PRO.

Crayford style microfocuser with 10:1 fine focusing!

Your advice and opinions would be most welcome...again.

Mis

[raymo]

The GS would be fine, but the only people that I have ever heard of having trouble with reaching prime focus with the SW Newts have not understood how the adaptors work. Your choice.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Thanks raymo.

To sum up there isn't much difference in mirror quality or build quality between the two?

What is the Crayford is the Crayford style microfocuser?

Does anyone own or have owned a Guan Sheng one here and if so how have they found them?

The bonus is that they are $100 cheaper :)

cheers,

Mis

[astro744]

See the source at http://www.gs-telescope.com/content.asp?id=139

If you cannot reach focus with a DSLR using the micro focuser, Art No.: M-CRF230- 10:1 Micro Edge 2" Crayford Style Focuser then you may need the low profile version, Art No.: M-MLP230- 10:1 Micro Photographic 2" Crayford Style Focuser.

When using the low profile version you will likely have to use a 35mm extension tube, see http://www.gs-telescope.com/content.asp?id=137 for visual use.

The standard micro focuser may allow both visual and photographic, it depends on focuser draw tube travel. Other factors come into play too such as how much edge illumination there is for both visual and photographic and this is determined by the height of the focal plane and size of the secondary. Low profile focusers are the best solution to full 35mm (36 x 24mm) frame astrophotography. Most DSLR have a smaller chip and if you are slightly higher up the draw tube and reach focus then you still may get full illumination because of the smaller chip.

Ask your supplier if the standard micro focuser reaches focus for both visual and DSLR. If so then you wont need to change to low profile but at least you know that you can.

[raymo]

There is nothing to choose between them. They are both budget scopes
that do a great job for the price. As with all mass produced scopes, the
mirror quality varies a little from one to the next, but they average out
pretty good. A Crayford style focuser doesn't have direct drive like a rack
and pinion one. It is driven by a roller which presses against the focuser's tube. The pressure is adjustable to allow for varying loads that the focuser might be asked to carry when the focuser is above the horizontal position. Both types have their followers. Both types can have a micro
focussing control fitted.
raymo

[rustigsmed]

i have a skywatcher and a GSO and in my honest opinion the Skywatcher is built more solidly. The spider vanes seems to warp less, the collimation holds better, the springs are sturdier under the primary, the finder scope holder also broke very easily on my GSO. these are little things but it adds up to less frustration at the scope.


cheers

[Misplaced]

Do you have any problems with the Prime Focus on the Skywatcher?

I still fancy the Skywatcher to be honest and when I get to Astrophotography I a sure that I will be able to get great advice from on here:)

[raymo]

All three of my SW newts reach prime focus easily when the correct adaptor is used.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Right decision is made the it's the Skywatcher on the HEQ5Pro with Goto.

Now then as I have a Nikon D5000 DSLR I know I need a T-Ring for the NIKON but what else do I require?

[raymo]

A remote cable or wireless shutter release is essential, in order to stop vibration when operating the shutter. An intervalometer is better, as it will take multiple exposures for you. If your Nikon will take a cable version, you can get an intervalometer on ebay for about $15. If your
Nikon has a Live View function, you can focus with it. If it doesn't, you can focus with a Bahtinov mask. [ about $39 ], or make one yourself.
That will get you started; other things can follow in due course.
Download Stellarium, if you don't already have it. It's a free
planetarium program; very good.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Thanks Raymo!

Just one thing am I right in thinking I need a T-adaptor as well as the T-ring? My camera does have Live View and I shall now investigate if it will take an intervalometer.

I really appreciate all your help and advice Raymond....thank you!

Mis

[pluto]

Some Nikon DSLRs have an intervalometer built in, you might be lucky :)

[Steffen]

No need, your camera has a built-in intervalometer :thumbsup:

Cheers
Steffen.

[Misplaced]

So I just need the remote wire/wireless shutter then?

[Steffen]

The intervalometer lets you specify a start time, so you can just kick it off and walk away. Remote shutter releases are for when you want to take a shot right then without introducing vibrations at you hit the shutter button.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Misplaced]

Thanks Steffens.....I may get one anyway as they aren't too expensive��

Stellarium now downloaded to iPad and MacBook.....just to order scope, mount, T-ring, T-ring adaptor, wired shutter remote......is there anything else?

[raymo]

I don't know anything about late model Nikons, but I only need a T-ring
for my Canon. The T-ring screws directly onto the focuser after you remove the barrel that accepts the 1.25" eyepieces.
raymo

[Misplaced]

Can anyone with a Nikon DSLR D5000 advise, please?

I am waiting for Andrews to get back to me as I have also posed the question to them:)

Thanks

Mis