Budget Autoguiding - Does it exist?

[glend]

So here is the setup: a new NEQ6, which is now performing well for vsual use. I want to begin basic DSLR imaging with my refractors (and yes I know it's a reach with my f12 so I will start with my f6) , and have a Canon 450d, with T-thread and Canon adaptor, and a remote control/intervalometer. At this time I hope to avoid having to use my laptop outside to 'control' anything (so no EQMOD, etc).

Is autoguiding a necessity when starting out? Or can I just concentrate on improving the tracking accuracy of the mount.

Being retired I don't have alot of cash to throw at the sort of solution that the 'Pro's' on IIS have put together, the NEQ6 was pretty much it for my budget for this year. So is there a budget autoguiding solution that will meet basic needs for at least a year of learning curve? Can Autoguiders like SynGuide be a solution or is it just a toy? It would be great to get some basic autoguiding direct into the mount without having that laptop outside. I'd like to be able to go to the dark site without the laptop as well.

Opinions? Advice?

Thanks

[pluto]

With a good polar alignment I used to get consistent 60 second unguided exposures with my old EQ5 + 5DmkII + ED80 so I should think you could get at least this with your scope/camera on an EQ6. 60 seconds was enough for reasonable images of the brighter objects with my 5DmkII.
I looked into the Synguider a couple of years ago and it sounded just ok but I didn't move to autoguiding until I got a CCD and by that stage I had to have my laptop with me anyway.

Astronomy Shed did a review of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIkLUOipCSc

[traveller]

Hi Glen,
Agree that good polar alignment can get you 60-90 secs on your DSLR.
I also highly recommend Backyard EOS for Canons, makes focusing and drift alignment much easier (about $50 for a license).
There are stand alone guiders such as Orion Synguider, but you need to spend $2-300 for one of those second hand.
Bo

[Astro_Bot]

That's going to be really hard. I've never been able to go beyond ~30 sec exposures unguided.

I wouldn't recommend the Synguider - I know someone with one and they soon replaced it with an Orion SSAG and PHD.

You can pick up a QHY5 (which is identical to the SSAG) second hand for around $200 and PHD is free. If you can put that together with your finderscope to make a finder-guider, which can be done for the cost of an adapter ring (available for some finderscopes), then you could have PHD guiding up and running for around $250.

Also, using a laptop with Backyard EOS gives you more control and visibility of your Canon DSLR than an intervalometer, IMHO.

[Terry B]

Just give it a go and see what you get without guiding.
Try 30sec then 60sec exposures. Watch each frame as they are taken and discard the obviously trailed exposures. You may throw out 50% of your frames but that is OK.
Be realistic about what you want to image. What do you want to do with the final images?
Maybe don't take pretty pic images but try your hand at searching for supernovas, novas etc. These images don't matter as much if they trail. :)

[cometcatcher]

With good PA my HEQ5 pro will do 60 seconds unguided with a 100mm F9 refractor.

Or perhaps a second hand laptop if you can get one cheap enough.

If you are good at making stuff, there's manual guiding with dual refractors where you do the guiding. I made guidescope brackets out of toilet seat bolts and some wood. I made a guiding eyepiece out of an old binocular eyepiece, some film and a red LED. But then I'm a duct tape engineer. ;)

[MrB]

The Synguide (and Celestron Nexguide, same thing) do work and there are a few IIS members using them happily.
I have a similar device, the LVI smartguider, which isn't as sensitive as other guiders but with a fast guidscope isn't a big issue.
It does take a while to get these standalone guiders setup/calibrated but it doesn't take much longer than a QHY5 with PHD on a laptop, a setup that I also use so can compare.

[raymo]

I don't remember the precise figures, but one evening I got my HEQ5
down to a PA of just a few arc seconds, and managed a sub of 105 seconds with no sign of star elongation. Being as I can go no longer than about 80-90 secs due to LP, I haven't bothered with guiding, just doing more subs. 8" f/5 scope.
It is now 5 weeks since the weather allowed me to get the scope out, and not much hope for at least the next week or two, so it's pretty much
academic at the moment.
raymo

[alistairsam]

hi,

There is an unguided DSO Imaging section in the UK forum below and some of them are really long unguided subs albeit with expensive mounts.
however, there are a few taken with HEQ5pro's and NEQ6's with between 30 sec and 3 min unguided subs.
So its definitely possible.

its all to do with Polar alignment, load balance, accuracy of your worm and gear, and the focal length.

Since you don't want to use a laptop, before you spend on a guiding setup, I would suggest you spend atleast two nights perfecting your polar alignment and try to leave the mount and scope covered up without setting up every night.
The more time you spend with PA, the better your tracking will be.

you could use an illuminated reticule to drift align and try to achieve 10 to 15mins without drift.

Else, the synguider is the only cheap alternative to guiding without a laptop.
Also, if you do setup guiding, try and keep the image scale of the guide cam and scope as close to the main camera and scope. you could always use a barlow for the guidescam/scope.
That way, errors would be more apparent.

This is the forum section

http://www.progressiveastroimaging.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=5327

This was 57 x 2min unguided with an EQ6 and RC10, so long focal length where guiding errors are normally very apparent
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e278/astrogeordie/astro/m33_rc_40d_121s_27av29me_l2_800.jpg

this was 2 min unguided subs
http://www.progressiveastroimaging.com/download/file.php?id=4307&mode=view

Cheers
Alistair

[pin3appl3]

Dont be afraid to give some old school guiding a go with just the illuminated recticle (if you have one!). You should be able to pick one up pretty cheap particularly second hand.

Thats how I first started, just get a bright guide star in the centre and keep it there while you image your object. Its tedious and can be a little frustrating but you will get longer subs (past 90 secs) and it also gives you a little taste of how they used to do it back in the film days! :)


Darc

[glend]

Thanks for those responses, I will give it ago next week. What about off-axis guiding, how does that work? I have seen offaxis guiders that attach to Canons. What goes in that little hole?

[Merlin66]

That's where a guide camera/ guide eyepiece would fit...
99% of all current guide systems involve the use of a computer.
I like the suggestion of a guide eyepiece and the MarkI eyeball.
Worked well, albeit frustrating at times in the "good ol' days"

(If you could find an old SBIG ST-4 guider that would certainly do the job - all self contained and guaranteed to work. I've gone through four of them in the past thirty years. Still have the Instruction manual!)

[seeker372011]

You can try guiding manually you know? Some of us started that
way, but you need maybe a webcam not too expensive, and a guide scope..got an old Tasco sitting around somewhere?

Otherwise why not concentrate on widefields?
Stick the camera on top of your telescope , use a wide angle lens and you will be producing stunning images that will impress your friends no end

Just a suggestion

But the necessary condition...get polar alignment spot on

Good luck