NEQ6 Control?

[glend]

While not a newbie to astronomy I certainly am to my new NEQ6 and am finding using it very frustrating because nothing about it seems to be intuitive.

I have approached the learning curve from the point of view of establishing a base of visual use control of the mount and then moving on to imaging control. The problem is I can't even get the darn thing to track an object visually.

I know the NEQ6 is properly aligned to true south and level, and that I have the right latitude set (not using the inaccurate gauge supplied, but by the inclinometer I attach to it). I have entered the correct GPS location for my backyard. The polar scope seems to be generally useless but I don't worry about it because I figure two or three star alignment will get me close enough for visual use. The issue is, yes I can reach an object in field of view range, but the tracking is never right and needs constant nudging, and those control buttons (RA and DEC) pretty much do the opposite of the intuitive (or what my Alt Az background would like). I miss a Sync to Target function which eliminates any small location drift once an object is found. I assume that PAE is the Synscan equivalent but certainly more complicated.

I have got Sky Safari Pro running on an Android tablet connected via wifi (Nexus-S) to the Synscan hand controller, so movement after alignment is all done on the tablet if I can, but Rate changes seem to still require going back to the handset.

I need some help in working out what I am doing wrong in trying to get this mount to track an object?

Sorry for taking so long with background info - so what am I doing wrong in setting up this mount, and why can't I get it to track accurately?

[peter_4059]

Is the tracking rate set to sidereal?

[Meru]

Hi Glen,

+1 for Peter's comment, and also sounds like a classic case of poor Polar Alignment :) Have you come straight from an alt-az mount? I do apologise if you already know everything I am about to say, not sure about your experience level with an Eq mount. Though you may be pointing it in the right direction that is definitely not sufficient to ensure you can track. Even with correct three star alignment it still wont track. Have you checked this alignment using the drift method? You can do this either visually or with a camera. Google has plenty on the matter.

FYI when I use my NEQ6, whether it be visual or CCD, I've found that even a eighth of a turn's adjustment on either the latitude or azimuth adjustment screws is the difference between not tracking properly and tracking correctly. So definitely take your time and it may take several nights to fully get it right and understand whats going on. It used to take me over an hours worth of adjustment to barely get tracking for 30secs continuously. Thats because I didnt really know what I was doing. Now it takes me 10 minutes to get 2 minutes worth of good unguided tracking :) So practice practice practice!

[glend]

I have a smaller Goto mount, an iOptron and I have no problems with that using the same setup routine. In fact it is much simpler, just point the arrow to true south, and level the mount and it takes over from there; it goes and gets the GPS location and is easy to align. The iOptron also seems to know by the object selected whether it is Sideral, Lunar, solar, etc tracking.

That might be the problem, I assumed that the NEQ6 would default the tracking to the object type the way the iOptron does. I will check that, it seems crazy that it doesn't cross reference that. I certainly hope I don't need to change the tracking each time I move from say a planet to a cluster etc.

Maybe I should have stuck with an iOptron mount like the iEQ45, which I did consider.

[Meru]

Hi Glen,

Not sure if the Neq6 does change its tracking rate based on the object. However I've had no issues viewing different objects. But regardless of tracking rates, it shouldn't drift out of view within a few seconds. There are many many people who use the NEQ6 for visual without any issues so it must be a setting or polar alignment issue. Is your current iOptran an alt-az mount? If so then yes its set up will be much easier as it's an alt-az mount. EQ mounts must have good polar alignments to work, alt-az mounts just need a level surface and be pointing roughly south. So any EQ mount requires a different approach to set up due to the way the work. If you bought an iEQ45 you would have also had the same problems.

Try doing good polar alignments and then see how you go. I found marking the position of the legs with a marker or gluing washers an easy way to set up in the right spot every time

[killswitch]

Sounds like the Polar Alignment is off if it cant track. Your Az might be off, since you used an inclinometer for Alt.

Polar alignment will determine how well it will track. Star Alignment is for GoTo accuracy.

Also check the tracking rate. I know on the AZ-EQ6 it will automatically switch to Lunar rate if you look at the moon but it wont switch back to Sidereal afterwards.

[Merlin66]

Glen,
the only different tracking rates are solar/moon/ sidereal...the actual differences (for visual) are probably not even noticeable.

I regularly use the HEQ5/ NEQ6 with minimal polar alignment and can easily do visual for an extended period...
There must be some other factor involved.

[madwayne]

Hi Glen

Sorry to hear of your hassles.

Do you have an illuminated reticle? If you do test your polar alignment with a drift align, be interesting to read of your polar alignment accuracy off a drift. As others have said if your Polar alignment is out your goto will not be very accurate at all.

With my goto dob, an Orion with Synscan, it has PAE. Slew to your object, hit escape once then hold escape down for a couple of seconds. Now put your object in the centre of the eyepiece. Illuminated reticle works best as you can get exactly to centre. Then hit enter. I tend to use a bright named star, centre that and then goto your object, usually that close it is in the field of my 6mm Delos. If you are doing pull down and reset type operation please do remember to clear your PAE after each session as they do remember previous sessions of PAE.

Good luck with it and I hope my ramblings are of benefit.

Wayne

[glend]

It is setup correctly, I have followed the manual exactly. The only tangible difference between an AltAz setup and an EQ is the latitude to point at SCP. While I hate the polar scope I could see Octans through it last night, slightly to the left of the reticle marks - so I did not worry to much about it not being accurate enough for visual use, so I did not crank the mount around. It was not out by much and as I said I can locate the object in the FOV so goto is reasonably accurate, it just drifts away without me chasing it. I will check the default tracking when I can.

I did look at the moon during the occulation of saturn so maybe it switched to lunar and then not defaulted back to sideral for last night.

[Merlin66]

Glen,
Just a thought...
on the HEQ/NEQ mounts you have to select "sidereal" rate or it doesn't automatically track.....

[Astro_Bot]

For the EQ6/NEQ6, if you select a target from the handset database, SynScan will also automatically select tracking (sidereal most of the time, lunar for moon). In fact, even if you manually slew to a target, SynScan will automatically track at the sidereal rate. You only need to manually select a tracking rate for solar.

If you slew to a target and SynScan doesn't track, there's something wrong.

(This is after star alignment. Prior to that, it may not track - I haven't tested it, but might do that shortly).

I can't speak for other mounts.

[Astro_Bot]

Just did a test on my NEQ6 Pro with v3.27 firmware. Here are the results.

From turn-on and initial set-up:

(1) 1, 2 or 3 Star alignment > manually slew to target > Sidereal tracking is automatic

(2) No Star alignment > manually slew to target > no tracking

(3) At any time > select object from SynScan database and slew > Sidereal tracking is automatic (except for the Moon, where tracking is lunar).

Also, sidereal tracking is automatic during Star alignment, but I guess that's just a special case of "select object from SynScan database and slew".

For this and other tests of things no-one wanted to know in the first place, stay tuned! :)

[glend]

Thank you for that test report. Certainly might explain why Mars was my major hassle, and -

Since I was only using the hand controller for the alignment, and then using the Sky Safari Pro/ tablet from that point, nothing was directly selected from the hand controller (but Sky Safari commands travel into the hand controller). I am wondering if there is a bug in Sky Safari Pro where the tracking is not addressed at the time of "Goto" of an object. Come to think of it I have not actually used the hand controller to select any object, other than to do the alignment. Astro_Devices advised me that I would have to use the hand controller to do the alignment and then use the Sky Safari Pro app (connected via the Nexus-S wifi which is plugged directly into the RJ port on the hand controller). I need to try again using only the hand controller.

[Meru]

Hi Glen,

Although the physical and software set up may be similar between the alt-az and eq mounts, there's a fundamental difference in the way they track. You must have polar alignment with the EQ. Even if you point it perfectly south using a compass and use the state of the art inclinometer it will still give poor tracking. Alignment under the stars is the only way. And as Ken said, it would be barely noticeable the difference in tracking rates.

Have a shot and let us know the results

[Merlin66]

I suppose #2 applies to my set-up..
I don't use the handcontroller - just start from a parked position, use CdC/ EQmod and GOTO to target.....
Tracking doesn't commence until a rate is selected...

[killswitch]

v3.27 is a pretty outdated firmware, perhaps you should update it.

v3.35 will come with a Polar Align feature that will help you adjust the mount.

[Astro_Bot]

Since I'm the only one who mentioned v3.27, I guess you mean me. :)

I tried v3.35 extensively and had issues and didn't like the PA feature, so reverted to v3.27. But the OP should give it a go if he hasn't already - he can revert to v3.27 easily enough. BTW, I wouldn't call it outdated - them stars, they don't move about much!

I'm pretty sure the tracking/non-tracking characteristic didn't change from v3.27 to v3.35 - I don't recall that aspect being any different.

[Merlin66]

I'm one of the many satisfied customers still sticking with V3.27...
It just works, and does everything I need.

[raymo]

A number of people reported issues with 3.35. If 3.27 does everything you need, why would you change.
raymo

[Merlin66]

I think it was the V3.34 that caused most of the "new" problems, but having said that, I agree with Raymo...V3.27 is rock solid. No issues, no drama.

[deanm]

When I first got a GoTo mount, I was hair-rippingly frustrated at hopeless tracking. It was just WRONG!

Until I read that one of the most common mistakes is getting the USA-non-USA date format (DD/MM/YY versus MM/DD/YY) wrong when setting up.

Worked for me & my hair (what's left of it) is largely intact...!

Dean

[glend]

Thanks everyone, I think I have it sorted out now. My main problem was the tracking setup and now I know I have to check it the mount is performing better.

I also rechecked all of my backyard setup and true south reference marks (on the ground and the fence). I realised that in setting up on the lawn I was probably getting some compaction and perhaps a tilt off level, so I have put down three large pavers (on compacted base and level) to sit the tripod on. I already had a level large format paver base for the dob so it was just expanded for the tripod.

I am preparing three 'travelling' base plates for when I take the mount to my dark site - 3/4 inch ply squares with a centre hole.

[glend]

I have downloaded the controller firmware update 3.35, mine has 3.27. I wanted to install this latest release because it has a simple polar alignment routine in it.

My problem is I don't have an RS232 coms port on my laptop. I tried to use my Nexus-S which is a wifi -RS232 connection and is used to run the controller commands from my Android tablet via wifi (the tablet is not being used for the firmware upgrade just the laptop) . The laptop connects to the Nexus-S and I get a good wifi link to it. I downloaded TCP2COM and Com2TCP to the laptop in an effort to create a tunnel from my laptop to the handcontroller. It seems to connect in one direction, but not the other, and I can't get the Loader to see the HC version number.

ANyone have any advice on how to upgrade the HC without an RS232 physical port on your laptop?

[Merlin66]

Glen,
I think most of us use a bi-directional Serial>USB adaptor.
I've been using the Keyspan adaptor (HS18?) for many years. Works 100%
No issues, no drama.

[glend]

Thanks Merlin I will look for a USB to Serial adaptor cable.

Also, any known bugs re southern hemisphere alignment with V3.35?

[Merlin66]

I don't use that feature and have stayed with the V3.27, which works very well for me (and EQmod)

[killswitch]

I used a $5 usb to serial adapter from ebay

[Merlin66]

Edison,
Sounds like you were lucky (you may want to post a link), unfortunately many of the "eBay" specials are not fully bi-directional and don't work.
Caution.

[glend]

Update: I have sourced a USB-RS232 cable and got the Synscan V3.35 upgrade done in time for the trip to the Bretti dark site last week. It was a very useful upgrade allowing me to see the polar alignment error and to correct for that. Also the latest version upgrade of Skysafari Pro includes the bigger slew control buttons and that is a very good improvement.

I am now moving onto getting ST4 guiding working and for the hardware have ordered an Orion 50mm guidescope (because it is lightweight and will mount on the top of the Moonlight focuser body easily without need for a new mounting location) and a ZWO ASI130 mono camera with ST4 port. I have installed PHD on my dedicated small laptop (which is now for NEQ6 control only).

I watched Jakob running PHD with the Orion guidescope last week and it looks like a great solution.

I will stick with the DSLR for image capture for the time being, but the ZWO may become the path to CCD in the future.

The steps after that will be to integrate: PHD, Backyard EOS (already installed), and Astrotorilla (also installed). Big learning curve.