PixInsight workshop in Australia

[RickS]

Folks,

Vicent Peris from the PixInsight Development Team is interested in offering one of his workshops in Australia. Current thinking is that he would do the workshop in Sydney in early February next year. It would be a two day event (14/15 hours total) and the cost would be approximately 250€ (currently about $368 AUD).

He'd need to get around 25 people along to make the trip pay for itself and he would also need some local help with the logistics. Hence this post to gauge the level of interest from the IIS community and see if there is anybody in Sydney willing to volunteer to assist.

Here's some information on a workshop he is doing in the USA in June: https://pixinsight.com/workshops/cfa-2014/ You'll note it is somewhat cheaper than the proposed AU one. That's sadly due to the tyranny of distance.

Please post in this thread if you're interested in coming, helping or both. Any other constructive feedback would be appreciated. I think it's a great opportunity to learn from an expert and I will be there with bells on :thumbsup:

Thanks,
Rick.

[pvelez]

Rick

count me in - I need all the help I can get!

Pete

[Octane]

I'm in for a trip down to Sydney. :)

H

[niharika]

Count me in as well

[DJT]

Count me in Rick.

What sort of logistics support is he looking for? Happy to help

[RobC]

Rick,

Count me in . I also need all the help I can get.

Rob

[alocky]

I'd definitely be interested in attending, and would also be willing to help out in whatever way I could.
Cheers,
Andrew.

[bert]

I'm interested.

[RickS]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I've asked Vicent what sort of help he needs. I expect it will be stuff like arranging the venue, audio-visual stuff, catering, etc.

Cheers,
Rick.

[gregbradley]

I'm interested as well.

Greg.

[Rod771]

Sounds great Rick! I'm in :)

[Geoff45]

Wouldn't dream of missing it!
Geoff

[Greg Priestley]

Yes I'm keen.

[DavidTrap]

Like Flynn!

DT

[Ryderscope]

What a great idea. I'm am in for sure.

Rodney w.

[MarkA]

I'm interested as well.
Mark

[stevous67]

I'd consider flying up for this kind of opportunity.

Steve

[RickS]

Thanks, everyone. It looks like there is a good level of interest so Vicent is keen.

Here's the deal with local assistance:



If anybody is willing to volunteer PM me and I'll put you in touch with V.

Cheers,
Rick.

[Andy01]

Yep, keen as... Maybe he could do Melbourne as well?

[LightningNZ]

Sydney's just down the road for me. Count me in.
-Cam

[uwahl]

The only thing that would keep me away is if it clashed with my grandaughter's wedding.
Photometry and narrow band astrophotography are areas I am taking up this year and Pixinsight is a program I will be acquiring. I would be keen to know if routines such as background neutralisation and curves transformation modify the background data or just the way its presented on the output device (screen or printer).:question:

[RickS]

The only operation that modifies the screen appearance of an image and not the underlying data is a screen stretch (ScreenTransferFunction). The other processes modify an in-memory copy of an image. Hope that answers your question?

[pfitzgerald]

Sounds like a great idea.

If Melbourne is a possibility I could probably get the school I teach at to come on board to provide the venue. Data projectors and internet access are no problem and we work in a cross platform environment.

We are very close to public transport - the train station is a two minute walk and there are buses that stop at the school. Also cafes etc for food are only a few minutes walk. I'd have to check on prices for accommodation in the area but it is available.

Timewise it would have to be during the school holidays if you wanted it during the day. I'd love to come to Sydney for it but depending upon the dates it could be problematic.

Paul

[Geoff45]

As Rick said. But don't worry about losing your original data. There are multiple ways of avoiding this. Also, you can preview the effect of most processes before making the real change.

[uwahl]

Thanks Rick, Geoff. That does answer my question. I hope the seminar goes ahead.

[White Rabbit]

Count me in, and in terms of logistics I could provide the Audio Visual for it at a heavily reduced rate (its what I do), with in reason of course. I wouldn't be looking to make money just cover the costs.

I wouldn't think you would need more than a screen a data projector a pa system and a lapel mic, pc audio connection and a blue tooth mouse.

let me know if you need any help in that respect.

Thanks
Sandy

[White Rabbit]

Come to think of it I might even be able to get a reduced rate on the venue as well. Contact me off line and we can discuss the requirements.

[RickS]

Thanks, Sandy. Will PM you.

[grantboxer]

I would definitely be interested as well.
Grant Boxer, Perth WA.

[DavidTrap]

Any idea on dates Rick?? I've been invited to a wedding in Melbourne in February - Murphy will make certain the dates clash…

DT

[RickS]

Thanks, Grant.



Nothing more definite than early Feb at this stage, David.

Cheers,
Rick.

[Mighty_oz]

I'm interested, need to brush up on my skills before then :)
Marcus.

[ashcb1]

I am interested as well will fly down to Sydney.

[RickS]

Thanks, guys.

[DavidTrap]

Ta Rick - hopefully it all works out.

Assuming he's planning a weekend event??

DT

[ReaPerMan]

I'm interested too, Looks like a few Perth people would make the pilgrimage. :thumbsup:

Paul

[RickS]

Thanks, Paul. It would be good to meet some of the WA folks.



Vicent seems keen so I think it is likely to go ahead. Yes, it would be a weekend event.

[GOTO]

I'm in too :)

[RickS]

Thanks, Geoff.

[White Rabbit]

Hi Rick

I emailed Vince with some questions on his requirements and he responded but I never got any responce to my reply. I followed up last week with another email and still haven't heard back.

If you are in contact with Vince can you ask him if he got my emails?

Thanks
Sandy

[stevous67]

Has this idea died?

Steve

[Geoff45]

Maybe not. At the end of this thread on the PI forum
http://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=6974.15 Vicent Peris states that they are close to announcing some workshops for later this year and next year.

[uwahl]

Keeping my fingers crossed that this is a go. Will definitely be a starter.

[Octane]

Well, one in New York was announced this morning.

H

[RickS]

I pinged Vicent a few weeks ago and he said he was busy preparing for the Harvard-Smithsonian workshop and would be more available once it was over. I'll ping him again and get an update.

Cheers,
Rick.

[RickS]

Yes, it's all still go. Vicent has some time to work on it now. If anybody has good connections for suitable venues and A/V hire in Sydney please let me know by PM.

Cheers,
Rick.

[DavidTrap]

Any news on adages Rick? Wondering if it will clash with a wedding I've been invited to on 14th Feb??

DT

[RickS]

Probably the weekend before that, David, but details are still in flux.

Cheers,
Rick.

[DavidTrap]

Fingers crossed!

[stevous67]

Still interested...

Steve :P

[RickS]

Making progress on the arrangements with help from White Rabbit.

[kimrichards]

Hi,
Any update on this workshop?
Kim

[RickS]

It's still bubbling along in the background. Vicent hasn't been able to devote a lot of time to planning it yet.

Cheers,
Rick.

[DavidTrap]

Just got my wedding invite Rick - it's on Feb 6th now. Fingers crossed the events don't clash...
DT

[RickS]

No probs, David :thumbsup:

[loc46south]

I'm interested as well -

[RickS]

Thanks, that's great... Hopefully we'll be able to lock down a date and let everybody know once Vicent has time to work on it.

[kimrichards]

Hi,

I am trying to tie down my work schedule for next year and would like to avoid a clash with this workshop. Do you think it will go ahead and if so any idea on dates, however rough?

Thanks

Kim

[RickS]

Last I heard from Vicent he was talking about May but there's still no firm plan...

Cheers,
Rick.

[RobF]

Wow, sounds like the ultimate PI workshop.
It'd be a long shot for me to attend, but will watch how things work out.
Congrats on the idea and getting this far with Vincent.

[speach]

Would be very interested. The only thing that will stop me is if I'm scheduled for surgery in Feb.

[stevous67]

I'm still keen.

Steve

[RickS]

I'll post if/when there's any news.

Cheers,
Rick.

[gregbradley]

Why don't you do one Rick? You seem to know a lot about PI and have been using it successfully for some time.

Some times guys who do talks about software have images that don't show any expertise at all. Yours do - that's your licence.

Greg.

[Geoff45]

Now there's the beginning of a good idea. Why not get a group of Pi users together to give presentations and have discussions/workshops. With PI being as vast as it is I'm sure most of us have found useful things that other users are unaware of or haven't explored.
Geoff

[pvelez]

Hey Rick, is there any news?

Very keen to do this - I keep receiving invites to workshops but sadly my Spanish is not good enough for me to head to Valencia and Tucson is a bit of a stretch

Pete

[RickS]

Hi Pete. No, I haven't heard any more from Vicent.



Sorry I missed your post, Greg. I have been talking about doing a local (Brisbane) workshop for a while. I should get off my butt and organise it. I wasn't thinking of anything grand... just a quick intro to the basics and a run through of a simple workflow. The boardroom at work has a projector and room for a smallish group. I know there is enough interest that I'd have to do it a couple of times (or find a bigger venue.)

Anything longer or better than an impromptu few hours is probably out of the question for me. I have put together and delivered training courses in IT products before and I am under no illusions about how much work it is. Maybe when I retire :)



That's a great idea, Geoff. We've had a few small, informal meetings of Brisbane based PI users. Something a little more structured could work well for a larger group.

Cheers,
Rick.

[Spookyer]

Rick, I am in if you are able to arrange something.

Brett:thumbsup:

[pvelez]

Rick

I'd fly up from Sydney for this

Sounds a great idea

Pete

[alocky]

I'd definitely make the trip across from WA for a PI symposium in Brisbane. Hell of a thing to organise though. I'm happy to help as much as possible from over here.
Cheers,
Andrew.

[speach]

Yep I'd bring our caravan up from Melbourne.

[RickS]

I'd be happy to participate in a PI summit just about anywhere in Oz if somebody else wants to organise it :D I know that if it is left to me it won't happen. Between my very full-on "day" job and the occasional imaging fix I really don't have the time and energy.

I will, however, pursue the idea of a local "introduction to PI" workshop. All that really needs is a date, a venue and a couple of hours preparation.

Cheers,
Rick.

[glend]

Too late for me, I have un-installed it as it was just too complicated in my opinion. Nothing intuitive about it. I'll go back to Photoshop and tools.

[RickS]

There's a lot of Photoshop that isn't intuitive either. It's just that once upon a time it was the only option and now we're used to it. If it was that easy to use you wouldn't see rows of 4 inch thick books at Dymocks.

IMO, PI suits folks with a scientific or programming background. It's a hardcore tool for geeks :) If you're of a gentler, more artistic bent then it probably isn't for you.

Cheers,
Rick.

[glend]

I am a tertiary trained programmer and made my living in my youth writing Assembler and Cobol code on old IBM 4341s back when punch card decks were the input. Times change, and for me the idea of struggling along with PI is 'hair shirt' stuff for the 'fans'. Yes I know Photoshop and there are no shortage of online tutorials and tools that make learning it easy not so PI. I have no doubt that it will fill a niche for some people but IMHO it will never be a mainstream Astro processing application.

[RickS]

You're welcome to be an exception to my general observation :)

I've written a lot of assembler too (albeit not with the IBM capital "A".) Perhaps you need to have experienced "C" system programming to have the appropriate level of masochism to enjoy and appreciate PI.

Cheers,
Rick.

[Slawomir]

I used to write assembler on prehistoric Atari, where you needed several lines of code just to divide two numbers...

As for the software for astrophotography, I have fallen in love with PI since I first opened it...have not touched PS since...

[codemonkey]

I'm also a tertiary trained programmer, but have had little experience with asm besides some uni work with m68k and some tinkering with x86. Maybe it's because I've spent most of my career in web applications and OO that I appreciate PI ;-)

Jokes aside, I definitely hear what you're saying Glen. I actually refused to use PI at first because the UX is terrible. In the end I spent more time with it and came to the conclusion that (a) I didn't have the time or knowledge to write anything better myself and (b) its power is worth more than the bad UX detracts. I wouldn't use anything else now.

[RickS]

Lee, do you mean UX in general or just the GUI? I can understand that people don't like to learn what is effectively a new windowing system, but I can also appreciate that using a toolkit like Qt is the only sensible approach for building a complex cross platform GUI.

Quite a few of the Qt developers used to be based in Brisbane. Unfortunately, they got downsized after Nokia acquired Trolltech :mad2:

Cheers,
Rick.

[RobC]

I retired two years ago but worked as a software developer with a major American graphics company. Since retiring I have come up to speed with QT. I was so impressed with the way, the PixInSight gui works that I suggested to my previous employers that they should review its gui methodology for consideration in the development of their intelligent modeling and engineering applications.

QT is a cross platform development environment and probably the most serious contender to the Microsoft offerings. Another popular Astro program written in QT is "Stellarium". Totally different gui to PixInSight.

Rob

[codemonkey]

Mostly the GUI; not because of how it looks as such, but because of UX concerns. In my opinion, if you have to explain something to a user you've already lost, and I don't think there's much in the PI UI that's intuitive.

Take for instance the icons in the screenshot. Being a software developer, I like to think I know a bit about computers and I need the tooltips to tell what these things do. Again, I don't think there's anything intuitive about PI.

My other concerns are a bit more contentious and you might argue that PixInsight simply isn't meant to do this. My take on things are that most users don't care at all about how things are done, they just want them done. They don't want to read details about a myriad of algorithms (and they'll probably forget most of it as soon as they've read it anyway) to do what they consider to be basic tasks. They just want it to work so they can do what they need to go and get on with their lives. People don't have much spare time and the more they have to think about a UI, the less time they have for the things that are really important to them. I feel it's the responsibility of UX designers and application developers to abstract those details.

The flip side to that is by exposing all this detail you have as much input/control as possible, and you might argue that this is PI's niche.

[RickS]

I agree that those icons are somewhat arbitrary. I don't know what you could pick that would be an intuitive icon for "make a process image" but you could probably come up with something better for global apply or dynamic preview.

I think a statement that there's nothing intuitive about PI is rather too strong. Perhaps some poetic licence there :) Most of the GUI is typical drag and drop, menus, scroll bars, etc. They are a little different from the native Windows or Mac versions but hardly difficult to pick up.

Anyway, I think we can agree that the UI is a bit funky. That's partly the price to be paid for cross platform support.



I'm happy with robust algorithms, often with references to the original academic papers they came from, with all the parameters visible and tweakable. I agree that's a niche and I think it's fine that PI doesn't appeal to everyone. There are other packages that are simpler and easier to pick up. CCDStack is a good example. I found it easy to learn and got reasonable results from it. I put more effort into learning PI but I get correspondingly better results. Not everybody wants to make that investment and that's cool...

Cheers,
Rick.

[RickS]

Oh, and being able to write scripts is great if you're a proficient programmer although I wish they'd finish the Python bindings so I don't have to use JavaScript.

[codemonkey]

I'm not sure what I'd pick to represent that either, but maybe an icon's not the best choice at all for such a thing.



Ah yes, I'd fully agree with you there; there's a lot of "standard" controls used and that really does make it more intuitive than I give it credit for. I guess I have a more nuanced perspective.



Spot on.



And that's the thing, isn't it? How much do you really want to know, and is that complexity worth it to you? For some, yes, for others, no.

I don't want all the things I've said to be taken as PI bashing by the way. I think it's a great tool and it's the only one I use for image processing. I was just explaining my initial opposition to it, and I can definitely understand why some people stick to that.



haha. Sadly JS is all the rage these days and my 9-5 is almost pure JS. Not really a fan, but I just concentrate on the architectural side of things and try to forget about it.

I think I remember a while ago you posting a script to reduce/eliminate magenta halos from narrowband, which I'll probably have to dig up soon because I hope to start doing my first narrowband stuff soon!

[RickS]

It's a script for creating masks that match a hue range. I use it quite a lot in my processing now, for RGB as well. I had some feedback from Juan and a few more ideas of my own that I should implement one of these days...

Cheers,
Rick.

[speach]

That's is a shame, only been using it for about 6 months, and must admit that it's hard going, but there are a lot of very good tutorials around. Now I'm getting a reasonable picture from it wouldn't I use anything else.
:D:D:D:D

[gregbradley]

On that point what are the best tutorials out there for PI?

I have not seen many of them but the few I have are extremely poor.
More interested in talking about the theory rather than the various simple steps you need to take to process the images like Adam Block or Tony Hallas videos do.

Someone who can communicate.

Greg.

[RickS]

The original tutorials I used to learn were Harry's: http://www.harrysastroshed.com/
They are basic but I found them enough to get started.

Warren Keller has a set of IP4AP tutorials for sale: http://www.ip4ap.com/pixinsight.htm
The first 5 videos from part 1 are free to watch. By the time these came out I was already fairly proficient so I didn't find them that helpful but they would be fine for someone new to PI.

There's a bunch of useful stuff here, including videos and processing examples: http://pixinsight.com.ar/

Rogelio has a few interesting articles on his site: http://www.deepskycolors.com/tutorials.html

Cheers,
Rick.

[Slawomir]

Thank you Rick for the links.

I have also found these quite useful when I was just starting using PI and needed clear descriptions of how to utilise PI in processing: http://lightvortexastronomy.blogspot.com.a u/p/tutorials.html

[RickS]

Thanks for the addition, Slawomir. There are probably several other sites that I missed. The PI site itself has some good tutorials as well although they tend to be more technical and for the advanced user.

There's also a fairly decent tutorial on deconvolution in PI here: http://mike-wiles.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/pixinsight-deconvolution.html

Cheers,
Rick.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Rick and Slawomir. I have watched the first of Harry's tutorials and its quite good. A touch out of date now as PI has been updated and some of the controls seem to be a bit different.

Greg.

[RickS]

The rapid development of PI is a blessing and a curse :lol:

[netwolf]

I found the PI interface good for me, I have coding knowledge so guess that helps. But I also like how the tool mechanics actually let you see the science behind it. Yes for many this is not of interest and there are other excellent point and click programs out there for that. I guess that is the grey boundary between Art and Science. Understanding the concepts is important and fun to me, for others it maybe to get the most pleasing picture. Initially when I started I just wanted results, but as I got more into this hobby I found it more fun to also understand the science/mechanics behind it. I guess that is why I like PI.

[RickS]

I'm doing an introductory PI workshop on 11 July in Brisbane. Here's the blurb:



If anybody from IIS is interested, send me a PM. Not sure how many positions will be left but if there's enough interest I'll try to do another one a bit later in the year.

Cheers,
Rick.

[RickS]

The workshop is now full... I have offered to do one at NACAA in Sydney next Easter and I'll do another one in Brisbane later this year if there is sufficient demand.

Cheers,
Rick.

[DavidTrap]

That didn't take long!

DT

[RickS]

No, it seems very popular :)

[Andy01]

I'm sure you'll find takers in Melbourne if have time to come down, I have a great venue for you as well :)

[RickS]

Perhaps for a holiday later in the year, Andy.