First attempt at binoviewing

[JJDOBBER79]

Hi all, I finally bought the andrews binoviewer and a couple superviews. I had a first attempt at it tonight. It achieves focus by simply using a 2x Barlow which surprised me. The views of the moon are unbelievable. Very close ups of crater impact zones that I have never seen with a single EP. Didn't really observe anything else with them. They take a bit of fiddling around with the individual .EP focusers. I can't actually seem to focus on a star so it is pinpoint. Is this usual for a binoviewer or did I not get the focusing spot on?. Also, the way they stick out of the focuser, it would be beneficial to use a diagonal. It would just be a lot more comfortable for me. If I do this, obviously I wil need counterweights which are on their way. Is it too much glass in the chain? I already have a Barlow, the bino prisms and EP's. would adding a diagonal change the image quality. Also, do they compensate so that I will not lose the ability to focus?

[Renato1]

You should be able to get a single star to focus. One thing you can try if moving the eyepieces up and down doesn't achieve it, is turning the eyepieces around within each holder, and adjusting the distance between eyepieces. At the end of the day, the binoviewer has to be collimated exactly like binoculars - when you alternately open and close each eye, the image shouldn't be jumping around, else you'll get a headache.

Not sure about using the star diagonal. If you put the Barlow into the diagonal the binoviewer won't come to focus. If you put the diagonal into the Barlow, the magnification will be a lot higher, but should work. Maybe, if your diagonal has threads, and if your Barlow unscrews at the bottom and has the same thread, then you can screw the bottom Barlow lens into the diagonal - and that may work, or may not.
Regards,
Renato

[glend]

I had to use a Televue In-travel adaptor to achieve focus.

[JJDOBBER79]

intravel doesnt seem to be a problem, It seems to come to focus around the middle of the travel so plenty each way. I read that to focus the EP's you close the left eye and turn the right focuser until sharp and vice versa. I tried this and it was getting better but it was hard without counterweights as I had to keep holding the scope up to keep the star in view. maybe an eye patch might help. A diagonal might not be a good idea. My focuser is already crying out for help. Maybe focusing on a terrestrial target during the day would be easier. Thanks Renato, I will try turning the EP's in the holder. It looks like I am going to a dark site on the weekend and good weather so I will have plenty of time to work it out.

[MattT]

Jas here is what I do with focusing.
Focus using my dominant eye, left in my case, with the focuser knob. When thats sharp shut left eye and focus right eye using the helical focus on the bino's, not the focuser. For me the left helical is all the way in and the right ends up most of the way out somewhere around 8mm difference. You set up might/will be totally different :)
Matt

[Renato1]

No problem. Actually, that was in the instructions of some binoviewer or other or mine, on the internet. But in practice, I've only ever had to do it when I was using two zoom eyepieces.
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79]

Hey guys, just an update on the binoviewing. I'm still having the same problem. I took the scope away for the weekend and had plenty of time to test. The best image I can get looks like I've turned the focuser until a star is a pinpoint, and then turned it a quarter turn too much. As I mentioned before, Intravel doesn't seem to be a factor, I have tried focusing the individual ep's and I have tried turning them in their holders. The next thing going through my head is attempting to collimate the unit. Any other suggestions from binoviewers? It's not the gso ep's coz I put my tak le 24 in and tried to focus. Same issue.

[JJDOBBER79]

Hey, don't know if this means anything,but I just decided to put my laser collimator in the ep holders of the binoviewer. Both ep focusers were all the way in to keep it constant. Here's what I got. First image is left, second is right.

[JJDOBBER79]

Sorry,don't know what happened there. Here's the other image

[JJDOBBER79]

Just to clarify, I perfectly collimated the primary and the secondary before I put the collimator in the binoviewer

[Renato1]

Let's see - you can't get either eyepiece to focus? As you focus in one direction the out of focus discs get smaller and smaller, but never hit focus. As you focus in the other direction, the discs just get bigger. If so, the unit can't reach focus.

But if each eyepiece does reach focus at some time, the unit does reach focus - it's just a matter of getting your left eyepiece right by focusing with the focuser, then lifting the other one out of the holder to reach focus and lock it in. Or vice versa.
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79]

I haven't yet reached focus Renato.as you say, the rings get smaller until almost focused and then start getting larger.

[Renato1]

So, you're rotating the focuser in one direction only, the discs get smaller, and smaller, and suddenly start getting bigger while still rotating in the same direction? Without achieving focus?

That has me beat. That hasn't happened with either of my binoviewers. And it wouldn't be a collimation issue.

I await with interest the experiences of other binoviewer owners.
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79]

I was just reading a post on cloudy nights where someone couldnt get a sharp image. the reply was that 90% of binoviewer focus issues occur due to the IPD being wrong. So, trying to focus the individual ep's may not do anything if this distance is wrong. Tonight I will open it right up and try and focus using the individual ep focusers and slowly close this distance, trying to focus at many different positions. Hopefully, I find the sweet spot. If not, Im out of ideas

[Satchmo]

Perhaps this particular example is just optical junk.

[JJDOBBER79]

perhaps:sadeyes:

[Renato1]

Or perhaps you need a longer Barlow.
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79]

I have a 3x barlow. I cant even get close with that. The travel just isnt there.

2 more things to try tonight. Maybe I need to bring the EP's a couple of mm out of their holders, or maybe only one of them. And I will try experimenting further with the IPD as in the previous post. I will post the results tomorrow.

[Renato1]

I didn't mean a higher power Barlow - I meant a physically longer Barlow - to get it physically closer to the secondary mirror. Years ago they used to make them a lot longer to get good images, but with better glass, they've been making them shorter.
Regards,
Renato

[JJDOBBER79]

well thats definately something to consider. I will see how I fair tonight.

[JJDOBBER79]

Hi all,
Just thought I would provide an update on the Binoviewing. To recap. I bought a cheap Andrews binoviewer ($99). And I have been trying to make it work in my 12" lightbridge for months. I, obviously searched many forums on what equipment is needed to binoview with my particular scope and I found nothing.
After trying many different options, (thanks to MattT for some gear on loan from him) I have found a way to binoview successfully. A couple of things that I would like to mention first.
1.) I have read on CN that one cannot do DSO Binoviewing with a cheap bino. Not true. Tonight, I had the best view of eta carina I have ever had, (before the moon came up) and the best view of Saturn I have ever had.
2.) this whole setup, including the binoviewer and eyepieces cost about $400. So, it doesn't have to be expensive.
3.) I am increasingly impressed with the quality of Chinese optics. Simply awesome for the price.

So, here's all the gear one needs to binoview with a 12" LB. I'm sure there maybe other combos but I didn't find them.
1.) Andrews binoviewer
2.) pair of gso superview 20mm
3.) pair of gso superview 40mm.
4.) a multimag oca from siebert optics.
The multi mag is genius in case anyone is unfamiliar with it. It's basically 2 extension tubes and 2 lenses. Depending on what order you screw them together in you will get 1.25x, 2x, or 3.5x.
So, with my eps I get 32, 20, 16, 10, 6. This is pretty much all that one needs.
The only complaint is with my filters rather than the oca. My lumicon o111 is only threaded on one side so it won't screw in. I should be able to get a cheap filter, take the glass out and piggy back the 0111. Thanks to everyone who helped me with this. It was worth it. I can't wait for the new moon and the 0111. I don't see myself going back to single ep viewing now. :thumbsup:

[cometcatcher]

What are DSO's like with it? Some reports on CN find them a bit dark?

The muktimag sounds interesting too as that's a good combination to use for deep sky and planets.

[JJDOBBER79]

Hi Cometcatcher,
Last night was the first I have used the bino for DSO at the right magnification. Previously, the only way I could get it to focus was with the 20mm EP's and a 2x barlow which I understand gives more than double because of some reason that I dont understand. Last night I viewed eta carina from my home in the suburbs which is not ideal and it was as bright as any other time I have seen it from there. When I was using the higher magnification from a dark site last week, the same target was very bright even with the o111 although I could only get a fraction of it in the FOV. I did notice last night that the target was the biggest/widest/ I had ever seen it. A few people have said that binoviewing gives a more emmersive almost 3d view so maybe thats got something to do with it. Saturn felt that way also, mars was just mars. I have a super dark site near here so I will be taking this setup there for the upcoming new moon and, from what I have seen so far, I am preparing to be blown away by whatever I point the scope at. Im very happy. :D

[MattT]

So a few months in Jas and how is it?
Bright DSO's in WO bino's are sensational is all I can say, Globs especially are so much better than mono.
Matt

[Starlite]

:thumbsup:
Jas, what brand of telescope and bino do you have and have you got them sorted yet? :) cheers John. Sorry, I did not read all the posts, I see you are very happy with your set up....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[doug mc]

I too recently bought possibly the last of the cheap binos from Andrews. Checking back and forth mono vs bino on luna detail leaves me satisfied that bino is definitely better. The unit I have has no obvious problems. I use 20mm GSO plossls, 12.5 Stirling plossls and a pair of 9mm Meade 5000 plossls. They give around 114x, 182x and 253x in my C8. The William optics 1.6x barlow nose piece works just fine in these units. By placing the barlow in front of the diagonal increased the power to close to 2x. It also places the back focus even closer than a standard setup for viewing eliminating the problem of aperture reduction. With this setup I can access a wide range of magnifications ecsept lowest power. For that one can go back to 2inch mono. At 62 my eyes are not what they used to be,but I can attest that bino viewing is much more relaxing way to observe, with improvements in definition over mono for medium to high power views on most objects. I can't wait for Jupiter's return.