Whales a bit safer

[el_draco]

Stunned to hear a court actually made a just decision. Short species up north no longer permitted to murder sentient beings.

Having had the privilege of looking a whale in the eye, all I can say is

BLOODY BEAUTY MATE !!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thum bsup::thumbsup:

[Larryp]

A great decision :thumbsup:

[raymo]

Rom's remark about looking a whale in the eye reminded me of a time
many years ago when I was on my brother in law's 30ft yacht looking
at one of the large U.S. aircraft carriers moored off of Freo. A whale and
her calf came up alongside with the mother actually resting up against
our hull and her calf resting up against her other side. They stayed there
for a couple of minutes, and all of us were able to look into her eye from a distance of about 1.5 metres. One of the most memorable experiences
of my life.
raymo

[astroron]

Beauty mate,at last the decision is made :) it took a long time but the wait is worth it in the end:D
This quote from the Japanese defence of whaling submission is in my opinion,shows what a sham their case is.
Quote)
Japan had argued it has complied with the moratorium despite its 2,000-year tradition of whale hunting, leaving coastal communities in "anguish" because they can no longer practice their ancestral traditions

The Antarctic whaling is done over 3000kms from Japan.
"Coastal communities" :question::question::question:
It will be interesting to see if Japan leaves the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling treaty, which it is at liberty to do so,and so can continue to do whaling.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[jenchris]

Japan only started eating whales recently.
They do a rather nasty cull of dolphins in one of the bays in Honshu I think it is - they get into the water and beat them to death; the water turns red with the blood. Quite awful.

[el_draco]

I believe the answer to that would be a few dozen 100mm warning shots below the waterline.... Not likely, but I can dream. ;)

I believe the P.C. response is automatic international sanctions.:shrug:

Just heard they are going to abide by the decision.... RIPPA!

[ZeroID]

Yes !!!!!

[johnnyt123]

Scientific research...pppffffttttt!!!..... What is there that they have learned and advanced the scientific world from the murder and consumption of whales!!!?!?

It's about time this barbaric practice is terminated. !!!

[noeyedeer]

some island off Norway still do whale kulls on it's beaches. they drive the pod into a fjord and massacre them with spears and knives along the shore.

it's a shame but they liken this to us eating beef, chickens etc. and they have been doing this forever so I don't know... I think it's wrong. they could just produce synthetic whale meat .. like spam lol

hopefully they can put a ban on shark finning. it's just as barbaric, and it's wasteful, throwing a finless shark back into the water to sink and drown.

matt

[astroron]

I think Japan are happy it is over and out of the way,the verdict gives them an out to close down an industry that was costing a lot in both prestige and monetary.
This helps them to save face and get out of a very costly exercise.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[AG Hybrid]

Good news indeed. But ummm. What does this mean?

[astroron]

Japanese people are generaly thought of as being short in stature, is what I think being inferred here.;)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[AG Hybrid]

Well. I'm not convinced that's exactly what he meant.

If he was literally calling them short however, when went there I found they were on average quite tall.

[astroron]

Hopefully he will enlighten you when he sees your message. :)
I would love to hear what you think he meant,then :question:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Shano592]

I still maintain that the Sea Shepherd needs to have a big swivel-mounted (cue Dr Evil) "Laser", so they can cut just enough of a hole in the whaler's hull, that it has to make for port.

Big laser needed, I know, but still ... someone must have a spare CNC machine and some old refractor glass that they no longer need!

:lol::lol::lol:

[rcheshire]

Having lived and worked in Japan I can verify that they come, as we do, in all shapes and sizes. The older generation is typically shorter, I am led to believe, due to malnutrition - post war.

[tlgerdes]

Let's hope the Japanese Government doesn't say, sorry April Fools joke.

[el_draco]

I'll leave it to your imagination. Suffice to say I am a student of history and, as a result, I occasionally have views that are socio-politically unacceptable; and solutions to problems that, whilst highly effective, do not sit well in the public arena. :P As a consequence, I generally keep them to myself and let the P.C. rant while I watch history grind inexorably in circles ....

Consider it a slip of an overcrowded mind :rolleyes: :D

Rom

[Ric]

I was just reading about this.

Wonderful news indeed. :thumbsup:

[noeyedeer]

who's going to protect the whales in the north?! it's a one sided deal. yeah Australia is happy and the whale watching boats and tourism etc .. but the whales still are not happy, they're still hunted.

should we put up dolphin proof nets because some dude got wacked by a dolphin and hurt himself in the sea .. did we hunt down that violent dolphin. I bet if it were a shark we would've ..

don't talk about whaling when we kill more sharks for tourism. on a global scale over 100,000,000 sharks are killed per year

domestic cats and dogs are number one killers of native animals .. etc .. where do we draw the line for the rights for animals? sorry but it's something I pay (donate) money for and feel strongly about.

matt

[el_draco]

Totally agree Matt, but its a one sided deal only because individuals allow it to be. You have to approach the protection of wildlife and country from a variety of perspectives, preferably backed by Science and economics. That's why I said "a bit safer". How many of us are prepared to do more and what can one person do?

Well, here is my two cents worth:
- I try not to buy Japanese, sorry Takahashi. Second hand maybe, not new.
- Sea Shepperd gets $ on a regular basis.
- I am prepared to speak out to protect habitat, despite the morons in power down here.
- I bought and protect a 35 acre habitat remnant.
- I rehabilitate native wildlife and have dispatched many ferals.
- I've planted 20,000+ trees.
- I recycle and conserve where I can.
- I avoid planes like the plague.
- I try to live "smaller"
- I talk to anyone who is interested.
- I take rubbish away from places I visit, simple but effective.
- I set a personal example for my own children
etc etc

Of course, never enough; its a work in progress but I like to see the land change over time, for the better, and attitudes are changing but don't wait for government; they're owned by big business.

oh no, controversy.

;)

Want to do something astro orientated? Look at this thread http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=119032
Flame the owner of the sign and protest your head off.

[noeyedeer]

people like you Rom are few and far between. if I could I would do more for animals, afterall they're silent victims without a voice.

I wasn't sledging this outcome, but more can be done worldwide .. afterall, species are being extinct on a ever increasing scale and one day humanity will be listed.

I commend you for your efforts, and with reflection to the government .. the liberals don't care about animal welfare or habitat loss .. or anything to do with environment.

sad but true

matt

[el_draco]

It actually applies to all sides of politics at various times, usually when they get to line their own pockets... alas, even the Greens. Plenty you can do at home. Kill the grass, dispose of the lawnmower and plant native ground covers, make soaks and partially bury pipes for habitat holes. Grow some of your own food and support farmers markets etc etc.

I'm no saint by any measure but I work at it. ;-) I just got sick of seeing crap everywhere I went. In the last 30 years, I have seen just 1 pristine beach. Damn that's sad.

Rom

[Varangian]

This is a traditional practice using traditional methods and implements and was first supposedly done during a previous Ice Age when terrestrial food resources 'dried up'. There are archaeological data to support this. This is completely different to getting in a boat and travelling for thousands of kms shooting Whales with WMDs.

[el_draco]

Totally agree with this. I don't like to see whales die but this is a complicated situation and a sustainable practice. Probably more importantly, it an "arms length" process; the hunter stands as much chance of dying as the whale. Slightly different than a fragmentation grenade launch by a *&%$CG from a mega-thousand ton mobile slaughterhouse.

I wont add further to this thread. I spent my morning planting some more trees, I guess actions speak more than any number of thousand words.... Black cockatoo's are around and my new, largely barren, garden is starting to attract birds, bandicoots, possums, wooblies and a host of invertebrates, amphibians and other stuff I have not even found yet.... Beats the buzz of a lawn mower any day of the week. :thumbsup:

Cheers folks

Rom

[noeyedeer]

they travel far enough in their non traditional motor boats to coax the pod into the fjord. I'm sure centuries (eons) ago the whales mistakingly found their way.

traditional or not it's no excuse in this day and age. if they didn't rely on modern technology, like png head hunters, I would say fair game.

the sea Shepard seems to think it needs to end as well.
this is for Norway, www.seashepherd.org/whales/norway.html
I will find the one for that island ...and sorry Norway, it's the Danish...
www.seashepherd.org/whales/danish-faeroe-islands.html

I will have to agree to disagree sorry.

matt

[Varangian]

So I guess Aboriginal people using shotguns to hunt kangaroos and emus in the outback is out too:( unfortunately the use of spear throwers is a lost art and people in the community have to eat.

We'll agree to disagree then.

[noeyedeer]

farmers hunt kangaroos too. we all know with white settlement kangaroo numbers have increased because of forest degredation ... there's more grazing land ... they're at pest levels because of us .. lol

i don't see any whale on the pest list

geez .. and I'm sure a lot of aboriginal tribes still hunt with spears. even goannas that are endangered because if toads .. etc
matt

we are the only country to eat their national animal emblem

[Varangian]

It's great that whales are protected but I'm more concerned about pollutants identified in whale meat more than the Faroe Island community killing 600 pilot whales a year. The pilot is not endangered and that's where my problem with Japan lies - hunting endangered animals like the humpback. The other difference between Japanese whaling and the Faroes is the Japanese whaling is commercialized and Faroe Island whaling is organized by the community and all whale meat is distributed across the community. I'm a realist and would ultimately like to see the Faroe Islands halve their annual intake (which given the amount of mercury in these pilots is now starting to happen) , but if the Sea Shepard had their way there would be no pilots for the Faroese and is that right? I wonder what the Sea Shepard make of Aboriginal people hunting their traditional food with shotguns.

[Varangian]

Ok now I know you position - it's about population densities rather than macabre practices. What's your issue with Pilots then, there are now estimated to be over 1,000,000 of them (at least).

[noeyedeer]

I don't agree with it either if they use shotguns .. specially if it's within protected areas .. they should be hunted traditionally.

I'm not trying to say one side is better or not.. when tradition is involved it should be traditionally

maybe the sea Shepard needs to be amphibious....

matt

[noeyedeer]

pilots .. as in airplane ones? ask mh 340 ....

[jenchris]

There's a million foxes in Victoria as well - but they eat quolls as well as bunnies. We shoudl be culling the dickens out of them

[noeyedeer]

wow 1 million pilot whales compared to 7billion people .. hmm ....

[noeyedeer]

if they're a pest so be it a d an introduced species ... no one cares about toads either in qld ...

matt

[noeyedeer]

myxamotosis was to kill bunnies lol ...

[noeyedeer]

I'm going to bite my tongue. sad thread that so many people are so uninformed with our technology ... seems it's worth more then animals .. pest or not ... they need humane methods of death.

matt

[Varangian]

Sorry I'm not trying to be a smart &$@ but it's bloody hard trying to hunt kangaroos with spears - but everything else iz done traditionally (often stone tools to cut the meat, the meat is distributed to old elders first etc.) I imagine it would be bloody hard trying to feed 3000 Faroese as well using canoes to round up the pod. Anyway nuff from me, my issue is whether the species is endangered and I think that as humpback whales are still in this category that Japan should not be allowed to take their quota of 50 per year.

[Varangian]

But there's not 7 billion people eating them...hunting them.:rolleyes: you must eat lettuce. What about Tuna do you eat them - pest right?

[noeyedeer]

I disagree with their so called tradition. no I hate tuna ... and ir I did eat eat it wouldn't be from long line "traditions". sorry I'm not a vegan, I like protein ..

speaking of tuna they will be endangered soon .. yellowfin especially because it's so prized

matt

[noeyedeer]

I will be dead before the world eats itself .. it's sad that in 2000 odd years it has become to this ... in. 15 billion year period

sorry
matt

[Varangian]

Yes they will - blue fin has dropped by 96%. Gummy shark numbers are incredibly low too for all you flake eaters!

[noeyedeer]

flake is just not gummy shark. but still a harmless shark hunted indiscriminately for food .. least it didn't get it's fins chopped off for soup a d left to drown ..

[noeyedeer]

I'm glad there is passion for animals .. even though we may disagree .. it's still good to see

night

matt

edit .. humaninty has raped all the resources .. I said earlier .. we are on the extinction list ..

[el_draco]

News this morning suggests Japs are going to defy the international Court of Justice and return to the Southern oceans next year...

It is historical fact that this culture has an unfortunate habit of saying one thing and doing another. Strange considering they profess to be honourable. They seriously lack in both honour and the ability to tell the truth. I suspect our "leaders" will now roll over and say ok....

Gawd :mad2:

[Stardrifter_WA]

Not really a surprise, they will probably withdraw from the 1986 moratorium on whaling and the 1946 treaty, which means that they can go back to doing whatever they want. Injunctions on Sea Shepherd is the first step.

Maybe we should place our own sanctions, and not buy Vixen and Takahashi telescopes, or any other Japanese products, any more. Oh, I can just hear the howls of protests from Vix and Tak fans now. Not goin' to happen!

Everyone needs Japan, so sanctions on Japan are probably not going to happen, if they don't abide by the rules, something Japan seem to flirt anyway.

Japan actually has the upper hand in all this. Simply don't play by the rules....nothin' will happen.

[el_draco]

I already stopped buying Jap. and already boycott Jap stuff. I guess it comes down to whats more important in the end, the rights of other species to survive and International law or being P.C. and having name tag bragging rights on a telescope. Have to think up some new ways to hit back... :mad2::mad2:

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi Rom,

If you are boycotting Japanese products, are you actually writing to those manufacturers to advise them that you will not buy Japanese products until Japan stops whaling? If not, what is the point of the boycott, if they don't know about it.

If we all meant it and all wrote to the manufacturers, they may put pressure on their government. People, collectively, do have power, but just lack the will to exercise it. I know I do, I like the Canon L series lens, and won't stop buying them, for example.

If all the people in Australia, and other countries, stopped buying Japanese products, until they stop whaling, it would happen quickly.

Street protest may highlight a problem, but are not the answer, particularly if the Jap government doesn't give a toss.

Hurt them, where it will hurt them the most, in the hip pocket. Unfortunately, I know it is more complex than this, in that, if we stop buying Jap products, they won't need our iron ore, etc. etc. etc. This would result in flow on affects.

If a protest of this nature was actually launched, I would join in and stop buying their products, but, on my own, my voice doesn't amount to much, and therefore, the only person I actually hurt is me, by not having the product that I want.

Maybe the answer is make one month a year, "don't buy Japanese month", and promote that.

I admire your conviction Rom.

Cheers Pete

[jenchris]

Well when the Spanish boats went up to fish in the North sea with nets that were too fine, they used to confiscate the boats and imprison the skipper and send the crew home.
That worked quite well

[el_draco]

Actually, YES, I do write to Jap companies and tell them why I wont buy from them and boy, has that cost them a packet already!! I have written to Manufacturers, Jap Pollies, Jap Newspapers and toasted the odd Jap nationalist online as well. I have eyed off a TOA 150 several times over the last few years, was in a position to buy one new and wrote to the manufacturer and told them why they didn't get a sale. Considering the state of their economy, it wouldn't take much to get them thinking.

Single voices don't make much noise generally but someone has to start... Yes? Okay, I'm one, why don't you become number 2?

As I have said before in this thread, you are wasting your time waiting for politicians to grow balls. They wont so you have to act yourself. Is a Canon lens a replacement for an extinct species? I think not.

In Tassie, people power writing to companies all over the world, doing street protests and fighting for the environment, killed off Gunns and forced the logging industry to the negotiating table. It took 30 years but last year we HAD consensus and a deal was all but signed. What stopped it? Moronic ideology driven Fwit politicians at both levels of govt. Oh well, if required, we will take them down as well and in the meantime... gawd help any bast*rd that goes near the protected forests.

Gotta start somewhere mate. :thumbsup:

have at'em

Rom

[Stardrifter_WA]

Good on ROM, as I said previously, I admire your conviction.

I too have written to Jap manufacturers, but not over this issue.

Unfortaunately, as far as DSLR's go, there isn't much available that isn't Japanese. Leica and the like, would be way out of my price range.

Cheers Pete

[Amaranthus]

Just read a brilliant article on the Trout River whale - be prepared to chuckle more than once!
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/nick-ryan-if-trout-rivers-rotting-blue-whale-explodes-theyll-be-a-blubbering-mess/story-fni6unxq-1226904199063