Store warranty

[OzStarGazer]

Hello,

Do you think it is convenient to buy from a non-authorized Celestron seller who only offers a 3-month warranty if the price is better?

Thanks for your opinion!

[glend]

How much better justifies the buy? It comes down to your knowledge of the product and the level of risk your comfortable with. If you know scopes and can spot problems then maybe, if your totally green then buy from someone who will support. You have to ask where did this item come from and into their possession.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks for the reply. Well, they sell MANY Celestron items and have good reviews, they are just not an authorized seller (this may also be the reason why their prices are lower? - a little bit like Andrews, although it is not Andrews)
Unfortunately I don't know much about small refractors, but I wouldn't use that scope much anyway, so if I treat it carefully.... Only for the sun and occasional travelling...

[cfranks]

If it is an Overseas seller (especially Indonesia) I would advise you don't touch it. Also, aren't Australian commercial sellers obliged to give 1 year warranty?

[OzStarGazer]

It is an Australian seller. That's why I found it attractive. I mean, to send something back from here to overseas is a nightmare and practically impossible for something heavy because it would cost a fortune.
I don't know if Aussie sellers are obliged to give a 1-year warranty, but I would be interested to know for sure...

[OzStarGazer]

OK, I just read that A warranty is a voluntary promise offered by the person or business who sold the product or service to you. Once you buy the product or service, the promise becomes a right that can be enforced under the ACL.
Warranties are separate from your automatic consumer guarantees (http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees). The consumer guarantees which apply regardless of any warranties suppliers sell or give to you, apply for a reasonable time depending on the nature of the goods or services. This means consumer guarantees may continue to apply after the time period for the warranty has expired.

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

Agreed. When you read the uniform consumer rights law, you see that the customer has this right, and the retailer cannot exclude it, even if you sign a sales agreement for something less (you cannot sign away your rights at law).

Also the retailer cannot refer you to the manufacturer if you don't want to take that path. Sometimes it is advantageous to do so, but the first recourse is with whoever you paid the money to.

Sometimes a retailer will say it is a minor fault, so they are not obliged to do something. Not true, they always are, in this reasonable period. A MAJOR fault is something which would if known cause a buyer to turn away from purchasing. That covers most.

A reasonable time for astro gear to last would definitely be one year at least, I reckon more.

Of course all that is in a reasonable world. Sometimes a great deal of coercion is required before a retailer will face reality.

Cheers

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, yes, I agree too.
By the way, what are the major faults that can occur in a small refractor?

[cometcatcher]

Overall construction quality can sometimes be "cheap" plasticy, mount wobbly. The focuser will probably be plastic and have slop. The lens may or may not be much chop. The eyepieces that come with it are almost certainly rubbish.

But... which Celestron are you referring to?

[OzStarGazer]

I haven't quite made up my mind yet... I was thinking of either the Powerseeker or the Travel Scope (both 70mm). However for an airplane the Powerseeker is a bit too long and heavy and they would want to have it in the cabin anyway because you can't keep objects of that shape (I mean so long) on a plane. Of course it is longer so the magnification is higher, but I don't need a new scope. I only wanted it for travelling, maybe walking (even here - terrestrial viewing), and for the sun, so maybe the Travel Scope is better? I already have a 2X and even a 3X Barlow anyway, so they would help with magnification.

[cometcatcher]

For a travel scope, what about something like this ---> http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-042D

Or this ---> http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-042G

[Derek Klepp]

No

[OzStarGazer]

They look nice, thanks!

Edit: Oh, here http://www.ozhut.com.au/skywatcher-80mm-refractor-altaz-telescope.html it says that the 80mm one weighs 9 kilos... I guess it is the sturdy tripod that weighs so much? Unfortunately that would be too much for me to carry around... :(

[Regulus]

Myastro also sell the Vixen 80mm refractor OTA for $245 and this is an excellent scope. No obvious Chromatic Aberration even on the moon. Highly recommend it.
Find a cheap suitable mount and it would be an excellent scope.

[raymo]

I have the SW80. The ad is wrong; it weighs 5.5kg complete with a
6x30mm finder, as stated in the ad, but shown in the ad with a red
dot finder. The tripod is amazing for the money, rock solid.
The optics are also amazing for the money[especially as I got mine
for $199 from the now defunct B.T.O.W.] The one shortcoming with
mine is the focuser has some flop, but I slightly nip the focuser lock
screw which takes care of that. CA is very slight indeed.
raymo

[Screwdriverone]

Am I the only one who is concerned about the mention of the OP wanting to use a refractor to look at the sun but no mention of a suitable filter???

I certainly hope OzStarGazer has a suitable Mylar (Baader) film or something similar in mind that is safe to use on the sun before they burn a hole right through the back of their head!

Also, on the original topic, the question was never answered as to how much cheaper the non-authorised dealer scope was?

I would steer clear of any scope that was cheap, simply because 1) It is probably crap, 2) the others suggested are much better than the 70mm powerseeker and 3) it is probably crap.....

Also, if you are thinking of walking with it, then what is wrong with a decent set of binoculars? Light, convenient and a tripod for them would easily fit in a backpack without all the hassle of a tube and the extra weight?

IMO you get what you pay for, a decent Skywatcher 80mm or the excellent Vixen that Trevor mentioned would easily fit in a padded camera backpack and would no doubt last longer and get used more than a cheap as chips scope.

Just my opinions, :D

Cheers

Chris

[OzStarGazer]

Yes, I intended to buy a solar filter of course. I can't use a filter with my scope because it is a collapsible dob... :( (It is a Skywatcher 130p.) That's one of the reasons why I wanted a small refractor. For travelling and the sun. But my main normal scope would remain the Skywatcher 130p of course. I am quite happy with it.
Thanks for the suggestions!!! I will think about it. But... I am actually a girl (not clear from my user name... :lol:) and even 5.5 kilos is a bit much for me for walking around... :( I was thinking of something under 2 kilos... The last time I travelled I had to struggle to put my main backpack (about 25 kilos) on the airport trolley... :sadeyes:
PS: I also live near the Botanic Gardens for example and I like to go up the hill to have a wonderful view and I think it would be nice with a telescope, but it should be really light...

[cometcatcher]

One of these on a camera tripod? http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-045F

The only thing lighter that's worth buying are binoculars.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, that looks very nice! :) I do have a good tripod, so I wouldn't even have to buy one...

Edit: How do I find objects with it? I guess I need an additional finderscope?

[julianh72]

9 kg must be for the whole kit including tripod and mount. I have a 90 mm / 500 mm short tube refractor, and the telescope weighs about 2.5 kg including diagonal, eyepiece and finderscope. A typical 80 mm / 400 mm short tube should come in at around 2 kg.(plus the weight of a lightweight tripod).

[OzStarGazer]

Yes, it must be the whole kit. My dob is about 6.5 kilos, but apart from the fact that it is not light, it is cumbersome. But I am still going to the beach for the lunar eclipse with it!

[OzStarGazer]

Is the Black Diamond SW the same as the StarTravel SW but without the accessories?
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-ota.html
They really look very similar. I would just need the finderscope and the diagonal.
Thanks!

[cometcatcher]

Looks the same to me.

I'll be going to the beach for the lunar eclipse with my short 80mm refractor.

[julianh72]

You want to be VERY careful about the specifications of what you are buying if you are shopping on-line - particularly from an "unauthorised" reseller.

Like many reputable telescope makers, Sky-Watcher makes several series of telescopes, from "beginner" to "professional". I believe the "Black Diamond" name applies to their top of their product line, so expect to pay more for a genuine BD. (For $150, I very much doubt that what they are selling is actually a genuine Sky-Watcher "Black Diamond"!)

E.g. Bintel have 80 mm Sky-Watcher refractors from $349 (SW80 with tripod and mount; 80 mm / 400 mm / f5; 1.5 kg for the OTA - which might be a good choice for your needs?) to $1,099 (Black Diamond ED80 OTA only, no tripod or mount; 80 mm / 600 mm / f7.5; 2.5 kg for the OTA).

http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/34/catmenu.aspx

[raymo]

9 Kilos is just wrong!!!!!!!!! Mine weighs 5.5 including the 6x30
finderscope and the tripod with tray.
If you get the same as mine you get a finderscope, diagonal, and tripod.
You could use your camera tripod when travelling, and the supplied
tripod with it's slow motions when at home. Mine came with a 45degree
diagonal, which makes viewing near the zenith awkward, so you'd need to get a 90DEgree one. The tripod really is very good; super stable.
raymo
Sorry, I just weighed it again, and it is actually 5.7kg.

[OzStarGazer]

But it's only the tube... No eyepieces or anything else...

[OzStarGazer]

About the weight... The problem when flying is also that usually in economy the maximum weight of carry-on baggage is 7 kilos... So if I have 5.5 kilos only for the scope it will be difficult not to go over their limit. It depends on the staff. Some are nice and don't care, but if you find a fussy person you might have to pay a lot...

[cometcatcher]

I just weighed my Kson ED80 F5.5 scope and it's only 1.5 Kg without eyepieces or diagonal. But it seems the store where I bought it and Kson in general have vanished from the western market.

[julianh72]

But my point is that the cheapest "legitimate" price for a genuine 80 mm Sky-Watcher Black Diamond that I can confirm is around $1,000 (for just the tube, focuser, diagonal and 1 x eyepiece - no tripod or mount). This makes me think that what is being offered is not a Black Diamond, so it also makes me wonder what else is incorrect in the ad. (E.g. maybe it's not even a genuine Sky-Watcher?)

On the other hand, it might well be a genuine Sky-Watcher SW80 (but not a Black Diamond), and it may well suit you just fine.

[raymo]

The SW80 is a Skywatcher product. It is not a $1000 scope, it is a budget 80mm achro that does a great job for the price. It did a great job on the horsehead for me.
raymo

[OzStarGazer]

You are probably right, it is not a BD. That must be why I didn't find it anywhere else this morning... It is probably the body of the SW StarTravel (I posted a link this morning, although it had accessories too). I wonder why the SW StarTravel is hardly sold here. But it also looks very similar to the SW80. It could also be the SW80. Anyway, it is not urgent... And one day I would like to have a really big one.

[OzStarGazer]

Thanks, I will have a look.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi OzStarGazer,

Let me be clear for a second, Black Diamond IS a colour scheme, NOT an indication of Extra Low Dispersion Glass or Apochromat lenses....

A BD monikered scope is just that, with the Black Diamond paint job.

IF is has ED 80 or is called SWED80, then it will be from $629-$1099 depending on the accessories and supplier, trust me, I have researched this extensively.

Bintel DOES have a $629 Black Diamond ED80 refractor for $629 new, BUT, it has a single speed crayford focuser and NOT the 10:1 micro-focuser version, nor, does is come with a case, diagonal or eyepieces.

The $629 is the "basic" scope, which does have rings and a finderscope and can be found here (http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/Sky-Watcher-SWED-80-Refractor/983/productview.aspx)

The Vixen and SW80 mentioned previously are Achromatic scopes with no ED glass, but as mentioned, perform pretty well for a reasonably priced Achro refractor, so this would be a great place to start if $629 is too much.

However, if a high quality small ED refractor is what you want, then expect to pay around this amount for a basic 66-80mm scope new, or less if you are prepared to wait on Ice Trade for one that pops up at a bargain price, (price depends on the brand and quality and condition, of course)

Cheers

Chris

[Screwdriverone]

Further to this, there is a ZS66 limited edition ED on Ice Trade for $500, go get it if you can afford it :)
a Great grab and go and wide angle photo ED66 scope

Chris

[OzStarGazer]

Thank you for the explanation!! I am still thinking about it. Unfortunately I don't travel that much (although next year I want to go to Uluru), so "here" it would mostly be for the sun (with a filter) and terrestrial observing... The night sky in Uluru must be magnificent though, and I would like to have a proper view of it too of course, but it is an almost unique event.
Unfortunately I don't think I can use a tripod on my balcony... :( I tried yesterday evening with my camera tripod and I could hardly move myself and there were birds flying around and screaming... What if they tip it over? That's why my dob is ideal for the balcony.
Still thinking... But great advice in this thread; I have a much better idea of what is good and what is not and about reflectors now, thanks!
And I will also keep an eye on the ads...
PS: Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "portable refractors", but I can't change it myself...