best place in Australia for great seeing

[icytailmark]

hi guys i am trying to research the best places in Australia for great seeing. I want to find a the perfect spot for imaging Mars in 2018. Any suggestions will be very welcome.

[AG Hybrid]

2018!!!! Seeing is situational at the best of times. Higher altitude and away from the ocean breeze is probably your best bet. Somewhere in the Blue Mountains most likely.

[glend]

Bretti Reserve, about 30kms northwest of Gloucester off the Thunderbolt Way.

Bretti is a regular dark site used by the people around the Central Coast and Newcastls mainly, but all are welcome. There are no major town or cities to cast skyglow, its easy to get to, and its a free camp spot.
Check out the Star Parties forum thread for the latest Bretti gathering at the new moon weekend at the end of this month - just over a week away. It would be a good chance to check it out.

[AstralTraveller]

The Gammon Ranges (northern section of the Flinders Ranges) can be very good but the best skies I have seen are all in the west. A night I spent near Leonora is pretty memorable but anywhere on the Yilgarn Block would be good, say Mt Magnet to Meekathara. The few nights I spent at the ASWA camp at Dryandra, about 300km sw of Perth, was also pretty amazing (Horse Head seen in an 8" newt) but I don't know how consistent the weather is; I suspect the winter could be pretty filthy. They have a new spot out west of Perth which I think could be very good but I haven't been there. Closer to home, I've seen great skies in the Vic high country (Mt Buffalo and Falls Creek come to mind) but I suspect that would be summer only.

[bratislav]

Stay away from big thermal gradients. World's best seeing sites often involve small islands in the middle of the ocean/sea, where temperatures are very stable. Places like Mauna Kea, Canary Islands and Crete (Greece). One such place in Oz, with reported exceptional seeing (*) is Exmouth in WA. Not quite an island, but surrounded by a warm, stable Indian ocean.
All suggested places in previous posts would be good for deep sky, but rather poor choice for planetary observation/imaging.

(*) reported by Anthony Wesley, so not hearsay

[Rob_K]

Yep, stay away from mountain areas, as Bratislav said, too many thermal gradients and disturbed airflow (although extensive plateau areas in Kosciusko NP could be productive). I regularly observe at Mt Buffalo and while the transparency is excellent the seeing is usually only fair, occasionally good. Think flat areas for inland. Good luck!

Cheers -

[icytailmark]

would fraser island,kangaroo island or phillip island have good seeing?

[JJDOBBER79]

I would head to the kimberley. Cant go far wrong there. Unless you forget your water.

[glend]

Low islands like Fraser, Kangaroo, etc are a terrible choice as you have high humidity, and usually coast weathet is far less stable than interior high country - which has less atmo to look through as well. Why 2018? Mars is in opposition in two weeks, why not now?

[icytailmark]

because in 2018 Mars will be at its closest for the rest of our lives.

[AG Hybrid]

Welp... When we figure out a consensus on where the best seeing is. Lets all make a star party of it and head there for this event.

[Astro_Bot]

How about where the professionals go? Coonabarabran (SSO) or even Canberra (Mt Stromlo) - since it's planetary phots you're after, a little light pollution is neither here nor there.

[gary]

Unfortunately there is no location within the continent of Australia where a combination
of clear skies and good seeing make it an astronomer's haven.

For example, I've observed from Exmouth over a few nights in the 1990's and on
those particular nights it would have to rate amongst the worse seeing I have ever
experienced anywhere. Having said that, it rated consistently with the expectation
of trying to observe from a very hot sea level location with a continually prevailing
sea breeze.

There is a certain amount of luck in being at the right place at the right time.

Andrew Murrell and I still wax lyrical about a night of observing with the 20" near Glendambo,
600km north of Adelaide, on the night immediately following the 2002 total solar eclipse.
New Moons don't get much newer and the transparency and seeing that night
were incredible.

But if we were there next new Moon or every New Moon period for the next five years
we might never experience a night of seeing quite as good.

Likewise I remember when we were at Wiruna on a New Moon weekend, probably
around the late 90's and there was a close opposition of Mars. It was one of those
rare magic nights of seeing and you would throw 500x and then 800x using the 20" onto
Mars and it just kept on giving. The detail that night around features such
a the ice caps was jawdropping and I have never seen Mars as good, even at closer
oppositions. There was a lot of luck on that night.

For most major astronomical events we are usually happy if we can find somewhere
in the state that has a high probability of being cloud free.

If it were me and someone asked "where should we go?" I would look at the
weather forecast for Mt Kaputar near Narrabri and try our luck there. In the
past it has provided some of the best nights of seeing we have experienced in
Australia. From the top you can even make out the white domes of Sidings
Springs and the Compact Array, where radioastronomers want good seeing
at millimeter wavelengths and are trying their luck there, is only a stone's
throw away.

However, my single piece of advice is to keep your plans fluid. Nobody can tell
you in 2014 what the best place to observe from will be in 2018. The place with
the statistically best seeing might be raining on the night. With long range
weather forecasting being so much better these days, you will have a better sense
of where you should drive or jump on a plane either a few weeks before, a week
before or ideally the day before. And then still keep your finger's crossed. :)

Nearly every major astronomical event where I have thought "I will head to X to
try and observe it" I have got to X, found the weather there lousy and had to make a
decision to try my luck at Y and sometimes having got to Y had to drive onto Z. :)

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Mt Kuring-Gai NSW

[Astro_Bot]

I know it's only 4 years away .... but what the heck. :)

Closest approach is at 0751 UT on July 31, 2018. Opposition is on July 27, 2018.

There's not too much of a trade-off between seasonal variation in elevation vs. time-of-night around July-August 2018, but each observer should still figure out what's best for their viewing location with regard to local conditions.

Apparent Diameter shrinks either side of the 27-31 July period fairly quickly, losing roughly around 15% within 30 days either side, so mid-July to mid-August is the period to aim for - it will be a maximum of 24.3" during this apparition.

Declination at the peak period will be approximately -25.8 deg (South), meaning bloody good viewing from the Southern Hemisphere.

For example (according to Stellarium, so take this with a pinch of salt), from Brisbane (27.5 deg South):

On 27 July, during Opposition, Mars will rise to a maximum elevation of 88.1 deg at 23:59, but the moon (99.9%) is only 7 degrees away at the same time.
On July 31, during closest approach, Mars will rise to a maximum of 88.4 deg above the Northern horizon at 23:39. There's still a moon (93%) in the sky around then, but it's about 45 deg away at that time.
On August 4, Mars will rise to a maximum of 88.7 deg, at 23:18 with moonrise (60%) occuring around half an hour later (23:52).

[bratislav]

I will have just one more say here.
All GOOD planetary imagers consistently have best "luck" from tropical/subtropical locations surrounded by large water mass (or near it). Florida Keys, Barbados, Jamaica, Phillipines (Cebu), southern Japan, Central Africa (Cotonou).
Have a good read of chapter 1 in Dragesco's book High Resolution Astrophotography. A lot has changed since (modern cameras, great softwares like AviStack, Registax, Autostakkert etc), but basics as far as thermals outside, near (observatory) and inside the telescope remain the same as ever.
Of course, you might get rotten seeing conditions even from places renowned for great seeing, like Pic Du Midi and Cerro Paranal, but your chances are still the best there.
Good luck (to us all).

[Camelopardalis]

And for those of us bad/unlucky planetary wannabes without a monster travel budget, we'll have to find somewhere on the Australian continent :P

[gary]

Hi Dunk,

In NSW, your best chance would probably still be Mt Kaputar.

It's over 1500m (5000)' and despite it being at a latitude of 30.2° S, on occasion it is
cool and crisp enough that it snows. Remarkable for a location near Narrabri and it
would probably be one of the most northerly locations on the continent that gets
snow. Snow gums abound up there.

What's more you can drive to the top and it is free of light pollution.

When they were looking for locations for the Anglo Australian Telescope, one
of the places they checked was Mt Kaputar before moving onto Sidings Springs where
they spent considerable time testing the seeing. Logistically Siding Springs was
an easier location to work at than Mt Kaputar. Anyone who has ever driven up the
narrow winding road to Mt Kaputar, which has had some improvements made in
recent years, will appreciate one of the reasons why. They also wanted to
site the AAO close to a major service center and Coona is more readily accessible
from Sidings Springs than Narrabri is from Mt Kaputar.

Mt Kaputar is unusual in NSW because it is so high, so remote and doesn't
have the characteristics of those long stretches of "mucky" turbulent mountain weather
you get in extended mountain ranges such as the Snowy or the Blue Mountains.

It is an isolated volcanic plug.

It is subject to the same sort of weather you get in the surrounding plains
and when bad weather does take place it is usually typified by those build-ups of
thunder-storms in the afternoon or evenings which then clear later in the night.
From the sweeping vistas Mt Kaputar provides, it is quite a spectacle watching
dramatic lightning storms roll over Sidings Springs and the Warrumbungles in
the distance.

Over the past couple of decades, observing groups from the Sydney clubs
and some of the Queensland clubs have had outings there and it is usually
one of those locations experienced observers look back on and typically express
having had good luck with.

I plan on getting up there again in a couple of weeks time.

[bratislav]

I'd start to investigate places with similar conditions. Again, Exmouth, sites near Darwin, Broom etc. Another well known place is Arkaroola in SA (Flinders Ranges), it was in fact investigated as part of site search for AAO, and found to have superior seeing to Siding Spring. Which is not that difficult really, SS/AAO site is nowhere near current top sites seeing wise. I've been to both sites but not with a planetary scope so can't really comment either way.

In any case anyone should plan an extended campaign, you can't plan to be at your 'dream' site for couple of days and hope to have exceptional seeing.

BTW, tropical sites have another advantage - planets are right at Zenith, which helps big time.

[Pinwheel]

There is only one best place...In Orbit around Mars if you can get there!:rofl::thumbsup::rofl:

[icytailmark]

or we could hack into hubble :lol:

[PeterM]

Inbetween Mcdonalds and Hungry Jacks just opposite the famous Surfers Paradise sign in surfers mall - rates very high. No joke saw Jupiter and Saturn here many times through 14 and 16 inch when we used to astro busk. Very laminer airflow. Massive light pollution well thats anothef issue...

[SurferSmyth]

Lake Ballard, Menzies, Western Australia ?

if you live in perth id say that's up there with some of the best spots, especial in winter. iv seen some insane photos (non edits)

:stargaze:

[clive milne]

Drawing from the experience of the dozen or so nights I have stayed up in the central wheatbelt near Koorda (300km North East of Perth) the seeing has been good to excellent more often than not... I expect that is due to the location being far enough north to avoid the jet stream. The transparency and sky brightness are as good as any location I have ever seen in Australia.
Without long term data to rely on it would be a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it gave Arkaroola a run for its money.