F1 Melbourne P1 Fri 14 March 2014 11:00 AEDT ONE HD

[gary]

ONE HD begins coverage of Practice Session 1 (P1) starting at 11:00 AEDT on Friday 14 March 2014.

Coverage of P2 begins at 16:00.

It promises to be one of the more telling practice sessions in many years.

[Exfso]

Yep, methinks it is going to be one very interesting season. Poor Renault seem to have fallen well behind. Don't know why, they had all the specifications at the same time the other Engine manufacturers were advised. Unless of course there is a degree of "sandbaging" going on. Time will tell for sure. Apparently Red Bull would be happy just with a finish on Sunday, been a long time since their predictions have been that dire.

[JB80]

Looking forward to this season quite a bit.

I'll probably be following 3 drivers mostly, young Danny of course, Kimi has me following a Ferrari for the first time in a long time and Groesjean at Lotus. In fact I hope Lotus do a bit better this year.

[goober]

I may take an early lunch and wander down to hear the new power units.

[gary]

A link to the "Transforming Formula One: 2014 Rules Explained" video that
featured on ONE this morning and produced by Red Bull.

Daniel Ricciardo and Sebastian Vettel explain the changes between the
2013 and 2014 cars.

3 minutes 27 seconds. Fabulous computer graphics -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFHmYFlbFn8

[gary]

Hamilton stopped on track in the Mercedes doing the very first installation lap
within the first 7 minutes of P1! Smoke coming from the car.

Perhaps the complexity of the new power units and the rules on limited testing
are plaguing even the favorites.

[AndrewJ]

Anyone know if there is a CD or dvd with real engine sounds on it.
I can play it in parallel with the TV, as the current engine noise just doesnt give the right "feeling" anymore.

Andrew

[CapturingTheNight]

I have heard better engine noises coming from tractors. Hope the racing is at least exciting.

[AstroJunk]

I've been to a couple of European GP's and have to say that much of the drama of the race weekend was provided by the monumental sound of the cars. The whole thing now looks more like F3 to me.

The racing better be VERY good to make up for the dull cars!

[The Mekon]

Yes, F1 appear to have nobbled themselves a bit here. In the past I used to attend Top Fuel drag racing. I always said that it was "a total assault on the senses" - you could see the speed and flames, hear the incredible sound, smell the fumes and even feel the ground shake as they took off. F1 now only has the first of these left - will not be too much of a spectacle soon.

[astroron]

Maybe as Alan Jones said,now that you can hear the tyres sqeall and see the brakes smoking etc, in the next few months we may forget all about the engine noise, just like we have in the past when they changed engines.
If the races are close we will care less about the engine noise and be happy to see the cars race a lot closer.
One thing that will be of interest is the fuel load,only 100 kg of fuel allowed.:question:
Should make for an interesting start to the season. :)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[gary]

Fantastic result by Daniel Ricciardo!!!

Great qualifying session.

[Astro_Bot]

That was interesting! Great to see Danny do well, but I'm glad Mercedes is in P1.

As mentioned above, the sounds are so different, it doesn't sound like F1 anymore. The rear area is aptly dubbed "the paddock" because there are an awful lot of tractors. ;)

Oh, and Vettel's gesture after his last qualifying lap may well indicate he's in "dummy spitting" mode already, and it's only the first race of the season!

[Barrykgerdes]

Australia has a new hero! Can he drive wet or dry!
Go Daniel

Barry

[Astro_Bot]

Listening to Mark Webber in the wrap-up, he seems happier than at anytime in his F1 career. His new role(s) is/are obviously agreeing with him. :thumbsup:

[astroron]

The dinosaurs are gone, so now we have to get with the new tecnology,like everything new, we will get used to the sound. :)
If the qualifying is as exciting as this all year round I won't complain about the engine noise.
One concern to me is the fuel
I love the twichy cars and the off course driving.
I look forward to an amazing race tomorrow.
Cheers :thumbsup:

[gary]

He was really relaxed and enjoying himself in the wrap-up and the
commentary and insight he provided was fun to listen to. :thumbsup:

[MrB]

First chance I've had to watch the F1, have to say I love the new sound.
They sound like real engines now with a note rather than a bunch of mosquitos.
I'm also a huge fan of turbo whine :D
But hey, each to their own. I look forward to the day they are 100% electric. OH boy will there be some whining then, literally and figuratively!

[gregbradley]

Different views. I was surprised by the engine sound. The cars look noticeably slower and sound like hotted up Mini Minors.

Greg.

[AstroJunk]

The cars are so slow and quiet, the pit crews are ###chatting### to the drivers!

They might as well Bluetooth their mobiles so they can catch up with their mates whilst they coast around saving fuel...

[ianB]

I hate the new changes to F1, and the sound of those engines are terrible, bring back F1 1990's style.

[The_bluester]

The sound is certainly not what it was, but then I said the same thing when the V10 engines made way for the just dropped V8 ones. I think it will be gotten used to. The technological side of it I certainly see more appeal in. They are finally developing things again which could have real world application (Like taking power off the turbo electrically to regulate boost instead of a wastegate, with the ability to feed it back in again to spool them up and cut lag)

It has just popped up that Ricciardo is under investigation for pipping the maximum allowed fuel flow rate (By a margin which has not been disclosed) If they strip the podium off him the stewards probably want to get to Tulla quick smart and out of AU. And it could easily be a decision which could impact attendances next year. Who knows how much the flow rate was allegedly pipped by, but you would have to imagine it was small as it was supposedly consistent, suggesting that the team reckoned they were in the right of it throughout the race. The FIA have an independent flow rate sensor on the cars to the one/s the teams use.

[Larryp]

Just heard on the late news that Ricciardo has been disqualified, and Red Bull are appealing the decision.

[gary]

That's terrible news.

[AstroJunk]

As Ron has already alluded to, fuel management hampered last years racing and will destroy this years. Sorry Ricciardo, dark forces are contriving to demolish F1, but at least you had your time on the podium!

The demise of F1 was further underlined by the brilliant race events earlier in the day, no wonder Webber was looking happy...

[AndrewJ]

Its going a bit too far in many areas.
Ie just give em 100Kg of fuel and DRS and then let em use it whenever they want. Up to them if they finish or crash or allow someone to overtake.
All this fiddling on the edges, resulting in a disqualification like this
will just detract from what already ended up another boring game of
follow the leader.
The first few laps were OK, but after that, meh, same old same old.
Gimme the celebrity "race" or V8s any day :D

Andrew

[gary]

Story here -
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26601418

[The_bluester]

The fuel flow limit is not something I see as the technological aspect of the sport, though I can see why they have done it, to limit outright power, the bowfins I a sure will win some of it back. One obvious result was that while the safety car was out, the were running so lean that many cars were backfiring and crackling from unstable combustion.

Regards Ricciardo, wonder if the stewards announced that from the departure lounge at tulla. Going to be interesting where that goes, sounds very much as though they are prepared to consider their own sensor the definitive item (even though they supplied a replacement due to problems, which failed) and render a car uncompetitive if required to prove a point.

I agree with red bulls approach in one way, they might get the result to stand if they can now prove the sensor was faulty but if they meekly complied then took the FIA to task after the race, getting swamped for lack of power in the mean time, they can not prove where they would otherwise have finished. A better risk for them to be arguing against disqualification than getting a couple of points and thinking it should have been a podium.

Also better IMO if the flow sensors are suspect for them to be challenged now and with a high profile case than for gripes against them to become background noise over weeks and months and for them to perhaps influence the championship outcome.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Paul


Its technology "imposed on the participants" that by not working ( or being disputed in its implementation ), has affected the race result.
Give em 100kg of fuel and let em go at it.

If they blow up their engine etc, thats their problem.
If they run out of fuel early, thats their problem.
Even with the flow limiter, so many cars were losing it due to too much torque that it wasnt funny, so restricting power is not really viable as a reason.
If they really want to do that, use smaller engines again.

Andrew

[The_bluester]

The tech that I am talking about as useful and a step forward is the energy recovery off the turbo. What a useful thing for road cars to be able to harvest power off the turbine to store for use in a hybrid drive setup, or to spool up the turbo quickly.

I do miss the sound but it was at least interesting to hear all sorts of other noises that have been drowned out by exhaust noise for the last couple of decades. And yes, the cars getting all squirmy through over doing the grip with torque was more interesting to watch than in past years.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Paul

Fully agree that the teams developing these new technologies is great,
and many spinoffs may come out of it.
The engineering/design aspects are amazing, but it can all be checked off and approved pre racing.
Its just when silly/petty regulations based on technology gone overboard
( ie my meter is better than your meter )
can affect the result, i reckon some of it is just not reqd.
Let em race using whatever they have.
First across the line wins:D

Andrew

[The_bluester]

Unfortunately they will loose a lot of people over it and it is just silly. All you have to do is look at facebook and you can see that loads of people can not distinguish the difference between 100kg of fuel for the race distance which will take nearly two hours to complete and a fuel flow limit of 100kg/h.

I can see why they have the fuel flow limit, despite what you and I would love to see, they don't want to see 1400HP banzai engines in quali or for overtaking in race and max fuel flow is a pretty rigid way of achieving that, but it remains to be seen if they can get the meters working well enough to lay down a limit and enforce it rigidly, they were talking about absolute zero tolerance before the race with the penalty for using 100.1kg/h being the same as 120kg/h. Assuming that FIA delegates oversee the race fuel quantity filled (And they should) then it should be pretty easy to confirm or blow away the DQ.

"You started with 110kg of fuel as confirmed by our delegate, by our fuel flow metering you exceeded the max flow of 100kg/h on numerous occasions. By our fuel flow records you should have used 98kg of fuel in total leaving 12kg at race end however post race scrutineering reveals that you had 14kg of fuel remaining, due to this discrepancy no action will be taken"

[Exfso]

Andrew, I agree 100% They have had their fuel quota cut to 100kg for the race, how they handle that should be up the the team, not the administrators, who are obviously losing the plot well and truly. With fuel management there are always debits and credits with mixtures and flow. If they are allowed only 100kg for a race, surely the teams should be the ones that control all the settings to give the best mixtures and flows to give the best power etc and still finish the distance on the allowable fuel without damaging the engines. Talk about over regulation:mad2:

[AndrewJ]

Gday Paul


Why not:D
If the team wants to also risk going to the back for the start,
thats their choice during qualifying.
As to overtaking during the race, maybe if they werent limited,
the DRS wouldnt be such the fait accompli it is now for enabling
the person behind to overtake.
I said it before, i reckon DRS also should be allowed to be used
whenever a driver wants to.
Maybe limit it to 20 times per race, but again, at the drivers choice.
Make for much more interesting and random setups to overtake
or even catch up a bit if in the open by yourself.

Andrew

[Barrykgerdes]

It is an unusual rule.

If it is that important the fuel flow regulator must automatically limit the flow. The poor driver has enough to contend with when "putting his foot down" in a difficult maneuver without having to watch the fuel flow that he apparently does have control over.

Most of the race just looked like a procession of the qualifying order waiting for the leaders to break down or crash to give someone else a chance.

Maybe all the cars should be prepared by a set of mechanics so that they perform identically and then draw lots to see who drives which car.

Barry

[The_bluester]

Strangely enough, from trackside it was actually a good and entertaining race through the midfield. Better than a whole lot of recent ones anyway, and with Bottas doing his thing as well it made for good watching. We were in the Waite stand so plenty of hip wriggling action, particularly later in the race as they tried to tame the torque as the tyres aged.

That is one change I really did like actually, I have disliked the tyres intensely for the last couple of seasons. Apart from anything else, how can it do anything but promote a procession when there is a thick carpet of marbles off line so no one is prepared to go there to try to find a way past the next car.

[sheeny]

I think the rule changes are a step in the right direction but didn't go far enough.:P

The exhaust note does sound like a couple of Moto3 bikes strapped together:lol:, but that aside, at least the drivers have to drive again... nice to have enough torque to scare 'em I say.;)

If they were serious, they would've bypassed this petrol hybrid business and gone straight to hydrogen fuel cell... but what would we do for an exhaust note then?:eyepop:

I think they compromised, because no-one would be interested in an F1 formula without an IC engine. No doubt they'll develop the hybrid system, but IMHO that's not where the future is, and the hydrogen fuel cell technology will languish while we mess about with this stuff.

(I did like the harsh scream of the old engines though;)).

Al.

[Larryp]

It seems very unfair to penalise Red Bull when the FIA's fuel sensor is not working accurately, they replace it and the new one also doesn't work properly, and the FIA tells them to put the original one back in and allow an offset for it.
Hardly Red Bull's fault!

[AndrewJ]

Gday Sheeny

Sue of course :question:
Heard it on the early news but didnt believe it
Quick Google found this

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/formula-one-no-noise-is-bad-noise-at-australian-grand-prix-20140317-hvjp0.html

First world problem, ie if it affects the "business model" fix it.
Maybe the cars will be forced to use some of the DRS energy
to power loudspeakers that emulate the old sound
whilst keeping the new engines :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
( Just think of the technical spinoffs we would get for the HiFi industry )

Andrew

[sheeny]

It doesn't surprise me, really.

The trouble is F1, is confused about what it is. Go back 30-40 years, and F1 was predominantly development and competition driven. These days they are more driven by entertainment in order to bring in the money for the development.

If F1 was serious about entertainment, they wouldn't mess with this hybrid business and they'd build a newer IC screamer. If they were serious about development, they'd jump hybrids to hydrogen fuel cell. They don't know what they want and end up in no man's land.

The same thing has been happening in MotoGP and the V8s...:sadeyes:

Al.

[gary]

The stewards' decision in full:



Story here -
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/3/15579.html

[gary]

Andrew Benson at BBC F1 reports that "Red Bull will have their appeal against Daniel Ricciardo's disqualification from the Australian Grand Prix heard in Paris on 14 April."

Story here -
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26664721

[astroron]

I think Andrew Benson hits the nail on the head with this article, re engine noise.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26666624
What do you think. :question:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[The_bluester]

I reckon in that write up, the biggest message is this paragraph.

"Last year, the 2.4-litre V8s were producing around 760bhp and using in the region of 150kg of fuel to complete a race distance. This year's turbo hybrids pump out as much as 850bhp and use only 100kg of fuel in a race. That's an increase of efficiency in the region of 35% - for significantly more performance."

Knowing that lap times are up largely due to harder tyres (Which I prefer to the carpet of marbles last year that meant overtaking opportunities were reduced) and reduced aero downforce, which the boffins wil no doubt win back over the bodywork over the next year or two, really shows that despite the noise or lack thereof, the new powerplants are pretty amazing things.

I actually enjoyed the race as the cars were obviously much more of a handful to drive. I have not seen them squirming around under power so much since the first practice session at Melbourne after they re banned traction control.

[gary]

Hi Ron,

I read that article.

The point Benson, yourself and others make with regards the engine sound is a good one.

Last Sunday I quickly became engrossed in the racing duels such as watching Ricciardo
keeping Magnussen at bay. When they changed to the in-car camera views, I found
myself listening to the engine noises more from the aspect of trying to hear if they
were experiencing a problem rather than purely for the aural spectacle.

For example there was that point early on where Lewis retired when the car
was firing only on five cylinders.

From a spectacle point of view, which is what Ecclestone will be concerned with,
I think there are two aspects.

The first is what you experience as a spectator at the track.
The second is what you experience as a member of the global TV audience.

The technical limits of sound reproduction being what they are, there was never any
way that television sets could reproduce that visceral wail of the previous V8's
running at 18,000 RPM. At around 150dB it was equivalent to being
10m from a running jet engine and it was well beyond the threshold of pain.

One had to be trackside to experience that.

The fans turning up at tracks are a hugely important part of F1 and many will miss
that sound. But I think they will still turn up at tracks for the racing spectacle and
over time they will simply reminisce on the sounds of the V8's during that era of the formula.
Just as many who have been following for longer remember how the turbos use
to sound. Now that sound is back.

What was interesting was how different the various engines sounded last weekend.
The Mercedes and Ferraris on the television had more of a turbo whine under
braking than the Renaults.

With those turbos turning at 2000 revs per second and some of their components
operating at 1000C, that is a technical marvel in itself.

Paul gave us that report from trackside and appears to have enjoyed it and reading between
the lines I suspect he and other fans will probably turn up at Melbourne again next
year. :)

Malaysia P1 in 4 days time. I will be at Coonabarabran over the weekend so will
need to program the recorder in Sydney before I head off.