another scope shop closing

[brian nordstrom]

:mad2: , sad news people , I was told the other day that BOTW here in Perth is closing down on Saturday ( 22nd ) there will be a few bargains to be had but that's little consoldence to us here in Perth , a sad day for all :sadeyes: .
Brian.

[Larryp]

Unfortunately there seems to be shops of all different types closing, Brian. A sign of the economic times.:(

[AG Hybrid]

BOTW? Never heard of it? Does it have a website?

[PCH]

Binocular Optical & Telescope World was only open for about 3 half days a week as I understand it. And on the two occassions I've emailed him for information, I haven't had replies.

So I won't miss him much tbh. Although in the interests of fair reporting, I have heard others speak highly of his service.

[SurferSmyth]

I picked up a SkyWatcher 10" Collapsible Dobsonian for $750 yesterday, very pleased. as far as i know he still has about 4 more!

[Brian3.]

Sad to see Perth without a real telescope shop but to be honest my business has gone to Melbourne simply because I was not impressed by the knowledge base or sales attitude of the locals. There is something called a consumer which WA business in many cases fail to service anywhere near the standard required today. Just try some of our service industries compared to the Eastern States and they constantly fall short of what I would define as "service."

[sn1987a]

Needed bigger premises claustrophobic, dark, uncomfortable, far too small, not enough stock and accessories on the shelves. I went in a few times but couldn't find anything to buy. No interest in getting in the sort of gear I did want to buy. I've got a pretty big impulse buy budget but shops have gotta at least make an effort!. It's just quicker, easier and less grief to order online from the US. :sadeyes:

[garin]

BTW it was BTOW (Binocular Telescope & Optical World)
Sadly this store has also been the primary contact of those new to astronomy and our astronomy group (AGWA Astronomy Group of WA) and was how I initally got into astronomy and met up with the people that would help me get the most enjoyment from my hobby.

[issdaol]

Unfortunately small businesses like this often go under because of lack of local support and cash flow problems.

The owner/s have to make choices about what stock to hold which gets very expensive especially if potential buyers are not interested in that brand or model so they end up stuck with stock and less cash.

Also how many people really supported their business by buying from them?? or purchased items from the internet that they could have purchased through them? Nowadays many people buy from an internet supplier because of better pricing (even if the saving is small) allowing them to spread their money around on more things.

As an opposing example places like Bintel are all ready well established, have good dealership agreements and understand their market very well. They also have great support from local community as well as internet trading.

[Oggie]

Unfortunately, stores like Bintel aren't the greatest for Perth residents that wish to purchase large items like telescopes. The freight is a killer.

[DaveR]

Sad news about BTOW, did not go often but it was nice to know it was there if that makes sense.
Can anyone advise what the contact arrangements are for AGWA now that BTOW is no more?

[Marios]

Even Bintel better watch out plenty of online stores in USA that can ship the same items at up to 30% less delivered. I personally prefer to deal with a local store for warranty purposes, however at the end of the day money talks for most people.

[bobson]

Dave,



Seniors Hall in Bassendean will be place where AGWA meetings will be held for now. They are not sure yet which day in a week. Most likely Monday or Wednesday. If you are on email list you will be notified, if not then Facebook is the only way to know until AGWA website is organised.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/124589480922323/

cheers

bob

[David Niven]

Freight indeed is a killer.
And our small Australian demand.
The USA has 15x our population and they are 5x more keen to take up astronomy as a hobby. So overall, their demand is 75x our's.
The other way to look at it, is, our market is tiny, just 1/75 of theirs, so it is hard for our local Retailers, as sales are few to come by. Only those with deep pockets or low overheads will survive and even then, some may eventually quit, as they cannot make a living out of it.

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Typical , some people cant wait to kick a business when its down and out ? can they .
Maybe if a bit of constructive criticism earlier on was given , that might have made a bit of difference in keeping the doors open ? you never know but its all a bit late now as the "horse has bolted" as they say .

And as Garin says these sort of shops are places where us like minded amateur astronomers can meet and greet , get a hands on felling for gear , and that's NOT! available on line .

Brian.

[Marios]

Just another victim of globalisation and a free market, free to pillage the little guy half way around the world. :mad2:

[sn1987a]

Don't taze me bro!

I couldn't agree with you more Brian. I would like nothing more than to spend my money in a local shop and touch all the precious things. What do you do when you go in a few times, tell 'em you'll give them a list of gear you want and if they get it in you'll buy it through them so they can get the money even if it costs more?. What do you do when you send in a work colleague to buy a scope through them and he comes back saying he wouldn't bother going back?. I've been in business myself, I've failed, I could see they were struggling but what do you do?.

[raymo]

I would like to add some detail to The B.T.O.W. story, so that people
don't come to wrong conclusions about Keith and the company. I hope
my memory is accurate, and that Keith will forgive any small errors I
may make.
York Optical had a Perth branch which they closed some 20+ yrs.
ago. Keith, and if I remember rightly, another employee, took over
the task of supplying astro gear. They had a good size shop, well stocked
with some 25-30 scopes up to 11" SCTs and 6" refs and Maks. All seemed to be going o.k. They were burgled and lost a lot of stock. The
insurance co. demanded that they bar the shop windows, which as I
recall, the local authorities vetoed on the grounds that it would lower the tone of the area. Too risky to operate without insurance, so moved to the only place he could find. I continued to buy from him until the end, and always got great service. The shop was open 4 1/2 days per week as Keith had another business, astro not being enough to consistently
supply a living I presume. Camera shops in and around Perth began to
sell scopes, along with Geographic shops, which ate into his income.
When he was bought out by a competitor a while back, I think it
signalled the end was nigh. I am guessing that he was severely
constrained in what he ordered or stocked by the new owners.
I want to stress that I did not know him socially, only as a long
time customer. He was very knowledgeable and helpful; gave free
lessons to all scope buyers. I will miss being able to call him with
my latest problem or purchasing need. Good luck Keith.
raymo

[Pinwheel]

As a few of you know I just took delivery of a 12" Bintel dob. I can tell you all I searched the web extensively before buying & at no time did B T O W come up in my search results. I doubt if it did I'd have bought from Perth but my point is I never heard of them to consider an impulse purchase.:question: I would like to add 100% of my purchases are on line due to my rural location.

[Sarge]

Sad to hear BTOW is closing. I purchased my NEQ6 from Keith about 2 years ago. Service and advice were first class. The only downer was not in the sale, but the freight. Independent freight company from Perth to Melb, price was fair - but it took 3 WEEKS!

Clear skies

Rod
:D:D

[raymo]

B.T.O.W. certainly had a website with products and prices, and
advertised in S and T for several years, and was listed as a dealer
in the blanket Skywatcher adverts. He stopped when he found that
he got almost no interstate sales due to freight costs. Just good money
down the drain.
raymo

[mr bruess]

Sad to hear BTOW is closing.
Australia has got a small population compared to a market like the US.
Astronomy is also taught in Schools there unlike Australia.
That's why all astronomy textbooks are American.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Hear , Hear .
I moved from Darwin at the end of last year and went to meet Keith and see the shop BOTW , and personally I was very impressed with Keith and the shop , small yes but well stocked with good gear .

I spent 3 hours the first time there talking scopes , bikes and other things with Keith and in that time he sold 2 eyepieces , replaced a spotting scope ( no questions asked ) and sold an 8 inch collapsable Dob and the time Keith took to ensure the buyer and his son were OK before leaving was great to see , he even offered to come around to the new 8 inch owners place to help in setting it up :thumbsup: , 4 happy customers in 3 hours .

Its a sad day for Perth , sorry to say :mad2: .

Brian.

[astroron]

I first met Keith when he had the shop in Mt Lawley I think it was?
Not being from Perth, Iam not sure now. :confused2:
I found him a great guy to talk too,He had to relocate as has been said here because of Council and Insurance pressure.

Moving out to Malaga was maybe a bit of a bum move,being so far out:question:
Ron from Sirius optics in Brisbane Keith and I had a good chat on the phone one time when I visited him at Malaga, fun time.:)
I have called into see him very time I have been in Perth over the last few years, I will miss not calling in when I am there in the future.
He was a careing guy and I wish him well in what ever he does in the future:)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[brian nordstrom]

Thanks Ron , I found Keith to be a very friendly guy , big in stature and heart , knowlegable and helpful , I to wish him all the best for the future as well ,,, whatever life throws at him .
( Hope its astro stuff ,,, not bikes :lol: .)
Brian.

[astroron]

Cheers Brian:thumbsup:

[saturn]

I too am sad to hear this news. Bought a skywatcher heritage 130 from BTow a year ago to use as a grab&go when visiting my sister in Perth. Good price too.

Even sadder that the closure is just a few weeks before Astrofest at Curtin uni. Keith and BTOW had a good presence at last years'.

[bobson]

Gerry Gibbs Camera House in Cannington bought BTOW some time ago. They decided to close business down.

bob

[brian nordstrom]

:mad2: Buisness as usual ?
Hope they pay dearly for this descision , I personally wont shop there .
Brian.

[Chris85]

From what I hear there's some dodgy things going on at old Gerry's. He owes Tasco $100k+, yet there wouldn't be 40k worth of stock in BTOW's warehouse... :shrug:

Either way it's a sad day. I bought 3 of my last 4 telescopes from Keith, never had a problem with his service. One time he convinced me to buy a cheaper, smaller telescope because he could see I was an Astro noob, which to this day I'm thankful for because in hindsight it was the correct decision.

Cheers!
Chris

[brian nordstrom]

:)PM'd
Brian.

[raymo]

I'm so glad to see other people expressing their gratitude to Keith. Yes
Ron, it was Mt Lawley, just along from the top end of Oxford St. Malaga
was the only place where the rent was affordable. Coincidentally, I
brought 3 of my last 4 scopes from him. I bought a used HEQ5 [ not from him] which
didn't have the hand controller update cable. I asked if he could get me one and he sent me one free of charge, and did the same thing when the hand controller cable packed up. That's what I call service.
raymo

[Stardrifter_WA]

Marios, I think you forget that if it wasn't for this "globalisation and free market" we would not have such a great variety of astro gear for that matter, and indeed, any other great gear, and at the prices we do, so I fail to see how they are "pillaging", as you put it, when we, as individuals are getting real value for money. For example, my Williams Optic 110 is such a beautiful scope, that cost under $2,500 (with freight, taxes and an addition free field flattener bonus), that ten years ago, I would never have ever dreamed of being able to afford such aperture in an apochromat, let alone a flourite. In Australia, this scope was another $600, plus freight to WA. The extra $600 I would have to pay, plus the freight to WA, put it out of the range I could afford, or at least justify, so I bought it direct from Williams. Why wouldn't I? After all, they offered a free field flattener bonus that the Australia dealer didn't.

And yes, it is sad that businesses in Australia cannot compete on price and availability, due to our small market. Things are in constant change Marios, and that is the reality that Australian businesses must deal with. Innovation is the key, but that is harder than it seems. However, some companies in Australia are doing that and succeeding. Australia, because of its high standard of living, is an expensive country in which to do business, for many reasons, the 'economy of scale' being the biggest reason; our market is just too small. You cannot have it both ways.

And, it is clear that the Internet and online business is changing the way retail is conducted. In fact, I have bought some amazing stuff that I simply would never have known even existed, if hadn't been for the Internet. Anyway, it is all well and good having bricks and mortar stores, but if those stores cannot compete on price, they must offer much more. I had a major astro store that was a primary supplier, but they simply failed to respect my business, so since I cannot get something of 'added value', price has become my only consideration.

Bottom line, it is a 'global economy' now, as information is much more easily disseminated, negating the need for a bricks and mortar store, to find information and see the product. In fact, I rarely visit any store now, and mostly buy on line. It is certainly more convenient, and I don't have to worry about driving through traffic and pay exorbitant prices for parking, let alone the outrageous parking fines, if you happen to take a bit longer. And the City of Perth is hot on issuing parking fines, and they are constantly installing new technology so that they can issue even more fines. In some places, they have a device embedded in the road that sends a signal to a parking inspector to tell them you have over stayed.

Yes Marios, it is sad to see businesses go, but then, it isn't a right that I have to deal with them, and make them rich. It is a privilege that I do, and if they can't give me something extra, I will make myself better off, by not spending any more than I need to. And that isn't being selfish either, but rather being prudent with my finances, as I am not rich.

Cheers Pete

[badabing82]

It was mt hawthorn scarb beach road where australia fine china is now. The council wouldn't allow them to have either bars OR roller shutters. Typical town of vincent but that's another subject. Shame to see them go!

[astroron]

I was tossing up as to which it was and plumped for Mt Lawley:rolleyes:
I have only been to the old shop at Mt Hawthorne once and that was about 10 years ago I think.:question:
I suppose life just goes on and we just have to grin:D and bare it.:)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[raymo]

Whoops, my mistake, wrong Mount.
raymo

[Varangian]

I believe there are scope shops on the East Coast that freight large items for free and the price points on their products are excellent. I don't work for any of them.

[14cge]

Some may not charge, specially on east coast, but when people find out its WA, freight does come in to it more often than not. Over the years I have bought from all over the world & taken the risk for warranty. I am one of the lucky ones that is happy to play with equipment, but those that aren't mechanically/electrically skilled would like someone local to go to, for even the simplest thing. If something goes wrong, it's very expensive to send back and get back!

[raymo]

Went into a branch of Camera House [the mob that bought out B.T.O.W.]
today to ask about a Skywatcher electric focuser, and the young guy said
" what's that?". Nuff said. On the way out I had a look at the EP stock
and saw the 20mm version of the 2" 80 degree 30mm EP that I bought from Andrews a while back. Mine has a chrome barrel, but theirs has a
silver painted one. Mine was $ 89, theirs is $299. It looked to be from
the same family of EP's . Eastern states retailers here I come,[and the
internet of course].
raymo

[Stardrifter_WA]

It is my understanding that Camera House Cannington is going to stock the items that BTOW stocked. It was CH Cannington that bought out BTOW anyway. When picking up my Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L lens recently from CH Cannington the guy that served me wanted to know if I was interested in 2" eyepieces, as they will be stocking them soon. Given that all my eyepieces are Televue, I said no, of course. But then, I am looking for one good planetary eyepiece though. :D

So, given what I was told, anything Skywatcher/Celestron may be available from CH in Cannington.

To really be involved in selling telescopes, you do need a "bread and butter" line, as there is just too small a market, and margins, for selling telescopes and accessories alone. Although I used to be involved in business in this area, a long time ago now, telescopes was never the main business focus, but only part of a larger optical equipment and science business.

I know I would never open a telescope shop, as it would be a sharp lesson in how to go broke quickly.

Working in retail sucks anyway! Working long hours and weekends isn't my idea of a good work/life balance.

Cheers Pete

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Thanks Peter , I have a job to do near them on Monday and will pop in for a gander at lunch time , my report forth coming .

All I hope is that they play this well and become a force in our hobby here in Perth , but I wont hold my breath until I talk to them and see their set up .:thumbsup: . ( eg. skills and knowledge ) and they are ready to learn .

ps. I hope they are reading this , I will direct them here if not , even show them on my smart phone this site and what an opportunity they have here if played right ...

Brian.

[raymo]

The Midland branch has Flexdobs up to 14" Go To, and refs up to
120mm, a 127mm Mak, a couple of EQ/ Newts, and some 1.25 and 2" EPs.
raymo

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Did these come from BOTW's stock ? or have the always had them ?
Its just I heard a $ value on the stock BOTW were holding and if so its already topped this .
Following with interest here .
Brian.

[raymo]

I don't know if their stock came from B.T.O.W. From memory, the scopes and EPs I saw in the shop totalled around 11 or 12,000 at the ticketed prices.
raymo

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Yes a percentage divvied among the Perth camera houses , thanks mate I will let you know as I said about the Cannington shop next week ( if Peter does not beat me to it ..;) ) .

This smells of theft a little , don't it ? ( like some one had a scope stolen ) and we are all looking out for it .

Brian.

[Stardrifter_WA]

No, the Midland store has always stocked them, but their knowledge on such is limited. They were not part of the CH franchise that owned BTOW, as that is CH Cannington.

Cheers Pete