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kinetic
09-02-2014, 05:14 PM
I did this changeover quite a while back but here is a write up
on it:

The standard GSO secondary spider vane assembly comes with quite chunky vanes, they measure 0.8mm / about 30thou.
This shows in images as quite imposing diffraction spikes.
Made worse because they are not really mounted that symmetrically to the centre hub. See pics 1 and 2.

I decided to change them out to thinner vanes and also turn up a better hub in the lathe. ( an old VCR head)
Firstly I used metal packing strip which I measured at 0.5mm/ ~20 thou thickness.

I then decided to go thinner again, this time using feeler strip guages which can be bought in 300mm lengths, similar to these (http://www.totalfasteners.com.au/search/feeler-strip-gauges-667-series-metric-and-imperial/302028063).
These strips are perfectly straight when under tension and harder than mild steel. My current set are 0.25mm / ~10 thou.
I had to cut the holes for the end screw brackets using a Dremel, - mainly to stop distorting them by conventional drilling, and secondly
because even HSS drill bits won't get through them.

As a set, I clamped them, then drilled them as a matched lengths to get as good as I could to
having the secondary mirror right on the central axis of the OTA.

Attaching them to the hub I used the same method that Dad and I used on the 8" homemade scope.
Wrapped around a pin, which then sat in a machined hole close to the edge of the hub.

Pins were a press fit, the whole process done on a vice.

Lastly is a pic showing how fine the diffraction spikes can get on a night of exceptional seeing.
You can see fine adjustment is still needed to make the vanes diametrically opposed to their opponent, 180 degrees opposite.
This is achieved with packers on the offending vane.

What this whole process enables me to do is image very faint detail very close to bright stars. Look at the detail in NGC 2822
which is normally lost in the glare of Miaplacidus.

I must thank my amazing father for this.
It was his idea to use feeler strip, his idea to use dowel pins, possibly his VCR alum stock, he bought me my lathe......
I love you Dad:thumbsup::love::prey2:

Steve

Mighty_oz
09-02-2014, 06:01 PM
Looks like a nice piece of work there :)

" Attaching them to the hub I used the same method that Dad and I used on the 8" homemade scope.
Wrapped around a pin, which then sat in a machined hole close to the edge of the hub. "

Is there much movement at the pin site ? Just curious that's all.

Mark

kinetic
09-02-2014, 08:28 PM
None Mark. Pins are snug , press fit with the vice, sized to be tight
enough so the loop won't 'unwrap' itself when the vanes are tensioned.

Steve

nebulosity.
10-02-2014, 06:18 PM
Really nice work, great idea of attaching the spider vanes :thumbsup: will keep it in mind for my next secondary build.

Cheers
Jo

SkyViking
11-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Some great work there Steve! Spider vanes really need to be as thin as possible. :thumbsup:
Have you noticed any difference in appearance of the spikes across the frame? Theoretically, as soon as the star is slightly off-axis the vanes would still appear thicker since they'd be viewed from an angle. But I don't know how noticeable the effect is.


That sounds familiar... you'll be switching to guitar strings next! ;)

kinetic
12-02-2014, 11:35 PM
Hi Rolf,

I hadn't really noticed across the frame differences but to be honest I didn't really
look at it.
Now that you point it out, I always image NGC 2822 with the galaxy itself centred in the shot and Miaplacidus down in the bottom right corner.
As you can see the spikes still look reasonably sharp. Food for thought, maybe on a good,
steady night I should do two sets, the second with Mia centre of frame.

I love your secondary dew experiments, just read it!
I was only thinking last week about your guitar string arrangement and thinking to myself
I wonder if Rolf eve thought of using the strings via some insulators as a way of getting power to the secondary! Then I thought, no, I bet heat would be a problem! Funny stuff!

I did try 4 thou feeler but it was too thin even under tension, showed flex when the OTA was moved from zenith to other orientations, 10 thou/0.25mm seems to be the
compromise.

Great to see amateurs sharing ideas , thumbs up!

Steve

Rac
13-02-2014, 05:16 AM
I'm currently using .25mm brass shim that's 30mm tall and see no change in spikes from center to edge of frame if i move the same star around and that's with a 10" f4 mirror.

I have thought about going thinner but i think the secondary would need a counter weight out the front.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5527/12263728536_d885c601c7_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46302893@N02/12263728536/)
IMG_9149 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46302893@N02/12263728536/) by Raymond Collecutt (http://www.flickr.com/people/46302893@N02/), on Flickr

multiweb
13-02-2014, 09:23 AM
Clever mounting Steve. :thumbsup:

@Raymond: terrific pictures on your flickr account. Quite a handy man yourself.

kinetic
16-02-2014, 11:42 PM
Rolf,
FWIW, I seem to get no noticeable difference in diffraction with a set
centred on NGC2822 and Miaplacidus offset, and a second set centred on
Mia.
See attached.

1st image was 150 frames centred on the galaxy.
2nd set is 65 frames centred on Mia.

Oversharpening applied to both images to emphasise the spikes.
Tonight was a good night to test this, seeing is very steady.

Steve

SkyViking
17-02-2014, 11:47 AM
Cheers Steve, that's handy to know. It was purely theoretical, I've never seen the effect documented and your images confirm it to be non-existent or minimal, at least within this FOV. There might still be a difference with a larger chip, but probably nothing much. Thanks for posting the pics.