M46 and the Jewel in the Crown - Wow! I found a second PN in M46!

[strongmanmike]

I have never imaged this cluster with its beautiful little planetary nebula before, at least not directly :question: :)

There are very few images out there that reveal all three shells of this little beauty so I thought I'd give her a crack - the outer most one is incredibly faint.

Still not quuuite in the mega data category I guess but never the less at 11.3hrs this is officially my longest exposure so far with the AG12 :clap: and took 3 nights to gather

The planetary neb NGC 2438 is pretty small, the inner brightest ring is just 1' across! so with some windy conditions at times (thank goodness for the dome) and average seeing the order of
the night, I was happy to be able to reveal some inner details as well as the very faint outer shells :)

Again, no darks, no flats and no gradient or noise removal..more details under the images here:

Full Frame (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/154038154/original) FOV ~ 38' X 30' showing the whole cluster M46

Medium Crop (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/154052677/original) FOV ~ 16' X 13'

Close Up of PN NGC 2438 (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/154038161/original) FOV ~ 7' X 7'

NB: NGC 2438 is not actually within the cluster but is just a chance alignment...looks pretty cool though :)

NEW* Another smaller and much fainter planetary (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/154070429/original) can be found just above or west? of NGC 2438

Apparently this smaller object is in fact a protoplanetary nebula, which also has the names of the Calabash Nebula or the Rotten Egg Nebula

Cheers big ears

Mike

[cometcatcher]

Nice chest of jewels there Mike.

I've played with this cluster and neb with my small refractors with disappointing results.

[marco]

Very nice Mike, in particular the details of NGC2438 that usually I never seen in any amateur image. It seems there is much more Ha there, perhaps an extended halo? :question: I would give it a try with a deep Ha of the area during next full moon..

Clear skies
Marco

[strongmanmike]

Cheers boys :thumbsup: The main ring is quite bright, the second ring (of Ha and OIII) is very faint and the outermost (broken) ring of mostly Ha is extremely faint. The conditions weren't the best, with strong winds on two of the three nights (thank god for my dome!) and less than favourable seeing and even after 6.5hrs of Ha through the 12" at F3.8 the outermost ring was coming along veeeery sloooowly...hence why I eventually gave up and thought, that'll do :P

Mike

[SkyViking]

Great work Mike, this planetary is certainly a gem. And who'd have thought your longest exposure should be of a star cluster, lol :lol:;)

I did a quick shot of this one some months back but that was with the Moon up so didn't reveal the outer shells. Thanks for showing it in all its glory, there are very few deep images of it.:thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

He he, yeah I thought the same thing..who wooda thunk it? :lol:...11.3hrs today...120hrs tomorrow.. LOOK OUT! :D

Cheers mate :thumbsup:

Mike

[Bassnut]

I like the close up Mike, 11 hrs did the trick there, good to see the outer ring. top work.

[RickS]

That's a lovely little gem, Mike! Nice work on such a rare target.

[E_ri_k]

Nice one Mike:thumbsup:That outer shell is very faint. Lovely colours :) So it's been windy for you too hey:P

[strongmanmike]

Cheers amigos, yes the outer ring is very faint Erik. Oh the wind, the wind :windy:...one may recall a year ago I was probably complaining bitterly about the wind...well! no more.....I have a dome :evil: :D :lol:

Mike

[RobF]

I've learned something Mike- never seen those shells. Top stuff.

[gregbradley]

A great shot Mike. You are breaking new ground here with this fast and sensitive setup.

Greg.

[barx1963]

Mike
Thank you so much for a lovely image of one of my favourite visual targets, to see the otherwise invisible outer shells and some of the detail that is only hinted at when at the eyepiece is a real treat.

Malcolm

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Rob, learn sumptin every day huh? :thumbsup:



You know, this scope and camera are quite a formidable pair, I'm really enjoying them. Compared to the days of packing the car and travelling 40km to Kurri with my whole Starfire kit, with setup and pulldown and all the way back again, at the mercy of the dew and wind etc (wind was only a problem here at Wallaroo though) my imaging has really become rather relaxed and effortless, I do very little cussing these days :innocent: :thumbsup:



That's great to hear Mal :thumbsup: funny, I am the other way round, when I am at SPSP each year, which is about the only time I do visual and I am inevitably looking through a 20"+ sized scope, all the objects I look at that I have imaged before blow me away because I have spent hours processing them I can make out so much in the eyepiece, probably more than most can - bit like doing the Hubble or UK Schmidt comparisons I do, I see so much more. :)

[h0ughy]

love the results Mike - if you say its faint then it must be - and i haven't seen that detail before

[strongmanmike]

Cheers David, yes she is faint them shells :)

Mike

[barx1963]

Yeah a good reason for us visual guys to keep on looking at the wonderful stuff you lot on the "dark side" produce. sometimes it helps to know what is there so you can push yourself to see more.

Malcolm

[DavidU]

Fabulous Mike.Love the "no darks, no flats and no gradient or noise removal"
bit !!
Dave

[strongmanmike]

I would really like to do more visual and a decent 12"+ Dob would be nice, something to do while my gear is chugging away :)



Amazing really huh? No catch here, the Starlightxpress is a killer camera, I wish the Sony chips came in 16803 size :sadeyes: although gradients might well start to be more noticeable then..?

Mike

[Dennis]

Mr Sidonio, you have turned what appeared ordinary into something quite extraordinary; very nicely done.:)

Cheers

Dennis

[Stevec35]

Nice work on this one Mike. I've just started collecting data on it myself but at F9 I think I would have to go a lot longer than your shot.

Cheers

Steve

[strongmanmike]

Thanks Dennis nice that you think so :thumbsup:



Hey mate, 14.5" at F9 should help out nicely, particularly if you get lucky with the seeing :prey: I am sure you will produce a(nother) nice image too :)

Mike

[multiweb]

Wow that's pretty tiny at 1'. Great details and colors. :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Yeh small as, was a real test for the new camera and guiding system but both performed very well..I am pretty sure it is seeing limited ie no more resolution to be had without better seeing :)

Of course there is the lovely star cluster as well :)

Mike

[TrevorW]

Nice Mike love the way you've captured the halo pretty isn't it :)

this was my feeble attempt in comparison from a while ago

[LucasB]

You are really getting the most out of your set up. Great work! Looking forward to the next one.:thumbsup:
Lucas

[strongmanmike]

That's alright Trevor...I used much more exposure for mine :thumbsup:



Cheers Lucas, I try to (see next post :D)...would love to be at Las Campanas in Chile (future home of the GMT) where the seeing hovers around 0.5" :eyepop::thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

I noticed a small non de script object just above NGC 2438 in my final image and went back and scrutinised my Ha and OIII and sure enough there it was, unfortunately I had suppressed it in my processing flow as I was too fixated on NGC 2438 :doh: soooo I redid the Ha and OIII combine and was more careful this time..in other words yep, I did a Sidonio :rolleyes: so all image links have now been updated :D

It is very faint and appears to be about 30" X 15" in size and brightest in Ha with hardly anything in OIII and its shape reminds me of a maraca or babies rattle :P.

Apparently this smaller object is in fact a protoplanetary nebula, which also has the names of the Calabash Nebula or the Rotten Egg Nebula, here is a close up of the new little PN :D

Protoplanetary nebula in M46 (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/154070429/original)

Cool...but oh to have better seeing...

Mike
knew I'd find something else in there, just knew it :nerd:

[allan gould]

Nicely done Mike. Keep pushing the envelope and have to agree that a dome gives far more pleasure than most people think of. Makes sitting inside controlling every thing in the dome very easy and relaxed.
Good on you
Allan

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Allan, I tried to find a jet in there somewhere but alas....:P

You are right about the dome...but the 3.5m model would be better :question:

Mike

[marc4darkskies]

Extremely cool Mike! :thumbsup:

And nice to see you have finally seen the light and converted to the joys and myriad photographic opportunities afforded by narrow field imaging! If it wasn't for all those pesky stars I'd say you've become another Fred! :lol:

[strongmanmike]

He he, oh weeeell not much choice when ya native field is only 38' X 30' anyway :lol:

Another Fred huh?..:question: hmmm?...my longest with the AG12 is 11.3hrs :question:...soooo, quadruple that and... I'm him! :thumbsup:

Mike

[rogerg]

wow that planetary image is pretty speccy! :thumbsup: I went through a phase of photographing planetary neb's for a year or so, many years ago, haven't been back for a while ... think I need some more filters for it.

[tilbrook@rbe.ne]

Great work Mike!:thumbsup:

You really do make the most of your setup. First time I've seen NGC 2438 at this resolution on this forum.

Cheers,

Justin.

[Astroman]

That is an awesome image Mike, I love it, my second favorite OC. Will have to see if I can put a few more hours on it with my little setup. I had a quick go, but no real detail in it.

[DJT]

Great image.

Saw Don Goldmans presentation on imaging PN's at AAIC last year and impressed with what you can do when you have a good set up and the right filters. Am now eeking out NB filters one at a time to reduce bank balance impact ;) Got hooked on stellar life cycles over the last year or so and am fascinated with how PN's evolve and based on your point of view how they appear in images. M46 was my first imaged PN a couple of years ago but its clearly not a patch on this.

Did you figure out what the extra object was yet?

[Screwdriverone]

Geez Mike, stop banging on about this proto planetary will ya?!?

It's OLD news, I took a photo of this region in March of last year and it was CLEARLY visible in my shot!!! :P See my attached proof :D

Oh, and while you are at it, do something about your stars dude! They are all roundish and starlike, it won't do, it just won't do at all my friend......

If you ever need any tips on capturing or processing quality data, just let me know. ;)

Cheers

Chris

(in case you missed it, this is a tongue in cheek, sarcastic post....:D)

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Justin, be prepared for a few more now :P ;)



Go for it Andrew, nothing ventured nothing gained :thumbsup:



Yes NB filters do assist, I essentially just did the RGB for the stars and the rest as NB for the rings :) The little object is a protoplanetary or new star which I guess is essentially the opposite to a planetary nebula which is the death of a star. EDIT ok that's wrong, this is a planetary nebula ie a dying star.



Yeah I got it ;)...hey I'm good with humour...I'm just not that funny :lol:....... :help:

Hmmm? speaking of funny, your shot does indeed seem to show a little spot in the basic position of the babies rattle... but in my image there is actually nothing bright in that exact position, so not sure what is going on there :shrug:

Mike

[Screwdriverone]

umm, baby's rattle?? you lost me, can you point it out for me please Mike?

[Screwdriverone]

Hmmm, I see what you mean now, sorry, I scrolled down and found the reference....

Not sure what it is, this was taken in March 2013 and it definitely looks starlike, I havent processed this in anything like CS5 or Startools with any sort of clone brush or anything, so perhaps it is a variable star in the "blob" of the baby's rattle?

I revisited the data I took in March when I realised it was NGC2438 and did a quick and dirty curves on it, so whatever it is, could be as it was captured.......

spooky, maybe it IS a variable star causing the proto planetary you so eloquently captured....

On a side note, geez my stars suck, I really must try harder...:(

Chris

[strongmanmike]

ok, see it now?...a baby rattle! :)

[strongmanmike]

Ah ok you got it...wa wa wa...rattle rattle :question:

[Rigel003]

Fantastic detail in NGC 2438 Mike. Makes it look a bit like the Eskimo. A couple of years ago I found another brighter planetary on the outskirts of the cluster, well outside the field of your shot. Image here (http://www.pbase.com/rigel003/image/140988156/original)
Looks like M46 is planetary central.

[Screwdriverone]

:lol: :rofl: ya spaz! :D

[alpal]

How can anyone be sure that this new object is a planetary nebula?

We need Hubble to confirm it!

[strongmanmike]

Ask and ye shall receive! :prey:

The Calabash Nebula by HST (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap010903.html) aka the Baby's Rattle ;)

[strongmanmike]

Yes I was aware of this but as you say outside teh FOV but I hadn't realised the Calabash Nebula was the faint thing I had picked up (but nearly smudged out :eyepop:)...now I do :thumbsup:

Mike

[alpal]

Wow Mike - you've got all the goodies.

You might like this video which discusses PN's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgdJcghkri4

[strongmanmike]

I started looking and it was quite interesting, will come back and look when I have more time...electric universe huh?

Mike
loves baby rattles :P

[stevous67]

Excellent Mike. Lots of detail visible in such a small object, well done.:thumbsup:

Steve

[strongmanmike]

Hey cheers Steve, yes I was happy with that aspect too. At F3.8 I am working at just 1120mm FL so seeing and guiding are critical to take advantage of the small pixels in the SX camera (image scale: 0.83"/pix) and thus get high resolution results and although I have had better seeing the OAG guiding was very good for this data :thumbsup: Except perhaps in really good seeing (which is very rare across most of OZ) I seem to be able to simulate results of a much longer FL scope and I guess that was the whole reason for going down the Starlightxpress route in the first place :thumbsup:...not that I wouldn't like to upgrade to a slightly larger compound scope in the near future too...and stop just simulating :lol:

Mike

[E_ri_k]

Hey Mike, for NGC 2438, why exposure times were you using, and what camera?
Cheers.
Erik

[strongmanmike]

Hmmm? Ah huh! who didn't read the image credits then huh?? :nerd: All the details are under each image :rolleyes:...oh but not my my actual sub lengths :P...which were 10min for Ha and OIII and 5min for RGB

Mike

[Ross G]

Excellent photo Mike.

What a great capture.. new objects for me.

Your "simulating" looks pretty "real". Would something like a 2x Powermate work in your system?

Ross.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Ross and yes I have thought of that, obviously can't use the Wynn corrector then but since my chip is relatively small the aberrations may be acceptable...?

Mike

[E_ri_k]

Thanks Mike:thumbsup: I must be going blind, or I'm skim reading! Or I just looked at the pretty picture and didn't read the text:P

[strongmanmike]

Yeah, lots of people do that :rolleyes: :lol:

Mike

[David Fitz-Henr]

That's a great capture Mike; stars are all round with good colour and you've captured some faint stuff in the planetaries as well :thumbsup::thumbsup:
I'm not sure about adding a 2x powermate though; at 0.84" per pixel you've probably captured all the detail that the seeing will allow!

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Dave, 12" at F3.8 certainly picks up stuff fast, so 11hrs through her is mega data through say a 4" at F7.5 ...and yes I considered that about the image scale but I guess extreme imaging is...extreme imaging (just ask Fred) :lol:...probably won't be doing it any time soon though :)

Mike