Service, what is it?

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi All :hi:

In some other threads service has been discussed. Personally, I think most companies in Australia do not even know what good or great service is.

I constantly wonder if it is just me expecting too much, but in paying a higher amount for goods in Australia, I want great service. In my view, merely being friendly and selling something to someone isn't great service, but merely being courteous.

So, my question is this "what do you think constitutes good or great service?"

Cheers Pete

[Kunama]

I would think you only need to look at Gary Kopff's contributions in the ArgoNavis thread.
I've just bought a used Argo although had discussed buying new from Gary (SWMBO vetoed purchase of new),
I messaged Gary and he promptly invited me to register for any updates and offered advice should I need it.

[Larryp]

I have recently had some absolutely superb service from Bintel. I am not prepared to go into detail, but it was well above and beyond the norm.

[el_draco]

Bintel is pretty good, usually answer inquires fast and prices are competitive; ATS is always very good. Stateside I have had astounding service from Moonlite, OPT, SB and Starizona. What constitutes great service INMO is a retailer who goes the extra light year to make you feel valued beyond the next sale.

[LewisM]

I have had exemplary service from at least 2 Australian astronomical supply distributers - Steve at MyAstroShop, and Ron, Peter (when he was still there) and Matt at Sirius Optics. Bintel has been pretty decent too.

Tasco has been INCREDIBLY helpful and rapid in response and replacement. It's the main reason I REFUSE to buy a "grey import" - I know Tasco will back up ANY of their warranties without fuss or hassle, unlike what I have heard - anecdotal and otherwise - about the grey imports.

I have only ever bought a little camera gear here in Australia, and that was through Michaels in Melbourne - VERY prompt, courteous and CORRECT sale. Small warranty issue I had INSTANTLY replaced, and I sent the faulty item after receiving the replacement.

Computers - great customer service and NIL hassles with Joyce Mayne. Even went WELL above and beyond with a warranty issue. Haven't had to pay for any service on the laptops in 4 years - all covered, no fuss (and I will only buy Asus - GREAT customer care IMHO, compared to bloody Acer)

Now to bad ones...

Office Works. SHOCKINGLY bad service. Basically have to hunt down a "salesperson" and DRAG him/her to what you want to inquire about. Outright rude and objectionable staff.

Ted's Camera House. May as well be Office Works. Contemptuous, rude, obnoxious. Main reason I shop camera stuff O/S.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi All :hi:

I am not asking who gives good service, as some Australian companies do, although we all may have differing opinions, on individual companies. There are astro stores that I used to support, but no longer. My loyalty wasn't respected, but I won't delve too far into that.

Some companies have given me great service on occasions too, but have managed to disrespect me and when it was pointed out that they have done so, they weren't honest enough with themselves to recognise that they had. "You're not important in the grand scheme of things, we have customers who spend far more that you", type of thing. Not the exact words, but the meaning was clear.

But, what they failed to realise is that if you have a 1000 customers who spend a $1000 each.....well, you do the math, and with this particular store, it wasn't hard to spend a $1,000 in each transaction. As it was, I had spent over $10,000 with this company, and some of that was when things were really bad, as it didn't stop my spending, just meant that I had to save a bit longer. "Don't they want my future business?" This was the question that I asked myself, particularly since I was really p***ed off about it, and still am, despite it happening six months ago. Since then, they have lost about $3 or 4K of business. And it wasn't like I was being difficult or anything, more like I just wasn't one of their "buddies", so I didn't really matter! They have simply forgotten that EVERY customer is the lifeblood of their business. Or, are they doing so well that they can afford to alienate a customer? Unfortunately, many businesses are doing so, and when you consider that I have a high discretionary spend every month, you would think they they would want me to spend it in their stores, but now, I look for the cheapest price, wherever that may be, onshore or offshore, as I simply am not treated with respect, on an ongoing basis.

So, I am not asking for individual examples of good or great service, or bad for that matter, as these examples only reflect a certain point in time, or a certain set of circumstances. Consistently good service is another matter, as I eluded to above.

I am wondering if I am expecting more than I get. Although, to be fair, I only expect what I gave to my customers, when I was a technical sales engineer with a large agricultural company, many years ago, but things appear to be changing in that regard.

So, what I am asking is this, "overall, what do you think represents good service?" Or, to put it another way, "what does a company have to do to retain your loyalty?".

Cheers Pete

[tlgerdes]

Things I find with "most" retailers/companies I buy from.

1) They think being courteous IS good service. That is the start not the end.

2) Their suppliers create too much red tape and not enough training for them to provide good service. Refunds, warranty, service etc.

3) With the plethora of information available, and the lack of staff training, I find most of the time I know more than them. So where do they add value. Certainly not with 2)

4) Price. Everyone wants the bargain/cheapest price. That leads to lowering margins without higher turnover for specialty items in our market, the first thing that gets cut to improve bottom line is wages. This creates a downward spiral.

What do I expect for service? No less than what I would have offered in youth at Dick Smith to our customers back then (80s).
Eg we new what the most common faults were with our products and how to fix them in the store, so we did, without charge to the customer.
Eg we were flexible about warranty, refunds, exchanges wherever we could be.
Eg We had the ability to talk to customers and demonstrate and educate on use before they left the store.
Eg we knew all our products and the appropriate use of one product over another and were able to question and advise our customers, not just sell them the more expensive item saying it costs more therefore it must be better.

[Kunama]

I think a good start would be if the staff knew a little about the products they sell without having to refer to brochures themselves. Even I can read a brochure.

Secondly, if you promise to email or call back with an update, do so at the time you promised, even if only to say "We're still waiting for it".

[Larryp]

For about 35 years of my working life. I had a rep from a dental supply company call on me religiously every 2 weeks. It didn't matter to him if I bought a lot of stock or a small amount of stock-his attitude was that he would prefer to have many small accounts than a few big ones.
This fellow not only knew everything about his own company's products, but he knew all about the opposition's products as well. Whatever I was trying to find, John could tell me where to get it, even referring me to the opposition for things he could not supply-he was an encyclopaedia of knowledge about everything dental. And if he told me he would chase something down for me, he never forgot to try.
He was so good at his job that I bought my supplies from whichever company he worked for at the time.
Over the years, a couple of the companies he worked for closed down or were bought out, but he was never unemployed for any longer than it took for another company to find out.
Unfortunately the kind of service he provided just doesn't exist nowadays
In contrast, the reps, and there were many, from the opposition companies were usually very attractive ex dental nurses, who would cease calling if I did not buy lots from them. They only wanted big accounts.

[GrahamL]

You have pretty much nailed it there Laurie, those who truely represent the company and products they carry are the ones you go to ,I've lost count the times I have approached a rep from a company (not them calling me ) I do business with simple requests to send a sample or a call back with basic information and nothing happens.

The people who call up to say hi and ask how your travelling and what they can do to support you are the ones we remember , the people who when things get all screwed up for whatever reason do there best to make it right .

:)

[Stardrifter_WA]

Yes Laurie, you are starting to get where I am coming from. :)

I had excellent knowledge of my products and solutions and kept abreast of what the competition were doing. I was always honest with my clients and often referred them to my competitor, as their product was better suited to the application. This attitude gained a great deal of trust. I always followed up all sales, to ensure my customer was happy and this is an important part of building customer relationships.

And yes, when I left a position, I was often approached by my competitors to work for them, but I never did so, as I am a man of integrity, and felt that the competitor just wanted me for the information on their competitor.

I was fairly loyal to some companies in Australia because I thought I had a good relationship with the), but through disrespect they have lost my business. And if they think that, because we cannot get it from overseas because of exclusivity agreements, they are wrong, as it is easy to get around that problem, even in regard to warranties. Also, they must be reminded that most store sell goods that are not necessities; that is, we may WANT them, but we don't NEED them, and we are doing THEM a favour by buying them.

Price only becomes relevant when I am getting nothing extra for paying more, so I may as well do what everyone else is doing, chase the best price and to hell with loyalty.

[Larryp]

.

In this case, it wasn't a case of employing him to gain information on the competition. The dental trade industry is quite small, and everybody knows everybody anyway. He is so well known and respected in the dental trade and the dental profession that any employer realises he is an asset to their business.:)

[Stardrifter_WA]

Laurie, that probably wasn't the case for me either, but it is what I felt MAY be the case, as it often is in these circumstances. The company most probably wants your expertise and knowledge, and it is often difficult not to pass some of the knowledge of the competitor. Also, I had signed secrecy agreements too, which also made it hard.

Cheers Pete

[glend]

I have deleted the original post here. Apparently I upset someone.

[Astro_Bot]

It's an interesting and complex question: what constitutes good service?

Here's an example of a level of service that might have looked great to a manager but wasn't good from the customer's perspective:

Back in the day, a menswear shop in Hobart (which has probably ceased to exist now) had many floor staff - I counted 7 of them - who constantly buzzed around the floor. The store had two entrances, front and rear, and was used as a short cut by many. It was impossible to simply walk through the store without being asked multiple times "Can I help you?"

Some days, I actually was in the market for clothing and acted the customer to see what they had and how good the service was. Sadly, as soon as I said I was looking for a suit/shirt/pants/belt/whatever I was immediately taken to the sale racks - perhaps because I was a young man - but I was never asked what style/colour/price range I liked or anything else. When I tried to introduce those subjects, I was smoothly "overruled" and re-shown sale items with typical "hard sell" tactics.

They get marks for enthusiasm, but they never took the time to understand my needs. Consequently, I never actually bought anything from them.

So, 7 floor staff, and not being able to go 15 seconds without being asked "Can I help you" is not necessarily good service.

-------------------------

Obviously, I'm not any kind of authority on the subject, but here's my view of good service:

To me, good service consists of taking the time to understand the customer's needs (including if that need is simply to buy a specific make/model of item rather than solve a problem), product expertise, stock availability and management that matches the advertising (and generally having most items available to show or ship), politeness, patience, a genuine willingness to help (including if the best solution is sold elsewhere) and an accommodating after sale service (such as generously honouring warranties and accepting what the customer claims unless obviously false). There are probably other aspects.

Keep in mind that, if a salesperson is employed anyway, it costs nothing extra for them to listen, be polite and not be pushy.

Most online businesses have an enquiry line - phone, e-mail or instant chat - so I see the same service characteristics needed there. What surprises me is when so much effort is put in place to facilitate rapid response to customer questions, but almost zero effort into the quality of the response. To me, one person who definitely gets back to you (say, the next business day or thereabouts) with a good answer is worth a thousand instant chat operators who are utterly clueless and simply read from a script. And then there are the businesses that don't bother to answer enquiries at all ....

[Stardrifter_WA]

Yes astro, I know what you mean. When I get this I just usually answer, "nahhh, I am beyond help", or "only if you are a psychiatrist" :lol: Most just look at me with blank looks, but I have had a few clever replies, and they are the people with whom I don't mind taking the time to talk to.

In your example, they may have been advise, by management, to push those particular products to get rid of them and weren't interested in you or your actual needs. This is also an area where I am wary when I am getting quotes and get conflicting information. I have to wonder whether they are trying to push a certain product, rather than meeting my actual needs.

There definitely seems to be a lack of interest in you as the customer, and it is all about what is in it for them, and they don't even realise that the two are most definitely intertwined.

[AdrianF]

A certain chain store won't get my custom again. Went in last week to buy my wife a Canon camera for our wedding anniversary on Sunday. They didn't have it in stock but said they could get it overnight for me no problem. Went in again on Wednesday the camera hadn't arrived but should be on the courier later in the afternoon. Later I called to find out if it had arrived no was the answer and they hung up on me. Called in again on Thursday the rep checked the computer no sorry it hasn't arrived so he got on the phone to supplier and was told its on its way. Friday morning called to be told the courier haven't arrived yet and will probably be here around 3pm.
At 2:30 drove to Kingaroy to the store. Courier has been but no camera. Then when rep checked the computer he claims I had not even ordered a camera and none had been ordered even for stock.

Great service

Adrian

[ourkind]

Walking into the Apple Store in Sydney with a cracked iphone (which was not bought directly from Apple but a local phone store) and walking out with a new (or be it refubished) iphone. No charge! That's service!!

[hotspur]

Yes,Adrian-I know that store too in kingaroy:shrug:,never seen anything so hopeless,tried calling them during business hours,re a camera replacement from insurance (I had no choice of store),and they always had answering machine on-call back in business hours! They know nothing about the products they sell,certainly poor service from that store.

There has been some good replies here,Laurrie's hits it on the head well.Good thread.

[Larryp]

Its nice to give a wrap to an organisation often criticised on this site.
I bought a new mobile phone online from Telstra, and wanted to keep my existing Telstra number. The new phone needs a mini sim, so this morning I went to the Telstra shop in Bankstown to get a new sim card.
The shop was busy, but the young man who served me did so in a very polite and unhurried manner.
After creating the new sim, he offered to completely set up the phone for me, and explain its features.
There was no charge, so the shop made no money out of me. He could have bundled me out the door and moved on to a paying customer, but instead spent a good 20 minutes going through the phone's features.
I was impressed!

[Stardrifter_WA]

I agree Laurie, Telstra doesn't often get a good rap. I worked for Telstra for two years, as a corporate tester, in their test centre in Perth. I know from first hand experience that Telstra does try, very hard, to provide good customer service, however, they don't always get it right as their system is very complex, amazingly so. I also worked in a Telstra T Shop, before being snatched for the test centre and I can tell you, I had to deal with very unhappy customers, which was mostly unjustified, but we bent over backwards to help them.

I don't particularly like Testra, as they made my position redundant, but I have to give them more praise than they, of first appearances, deserve. Most people bash Telstra, but having worked on the inside, I think most of it is not deserved. Also, some of the problems come from individuals within the company not providing good service, not the company itself. After all, a company is only as good as the people it hires, and I can say that with a big organisation like Telstra, they do get it wrong.

I had some interesting jobs over the yerars, and I can tell you that working for Telstra as a corporate tester was one of the more interesting jobs I have had.

Cheers Pete

[Larryp]

I've been with Telstra for many years, Peter, and never had a gripe with them. I have had problems arise, but they have always sorted them out.
When my son was a teenager, he downloaded some music from some website, and in doing so, enabled people all over the world to download music on my internet account-I had a monthly bill over $2000.00!
I got on the phone to Telstra to find out why I had this huge bill, and the guy explained what my son had done-and then wiped the bill as a goodwill gesture!
Like I said-no complaints from me!

[AdrianF]

I am on the other end of the stick from you and have nothing but complaints about Telstra.
Been waiting for a house phone for nearly 2 1/2 months. First request was cancelled by Telstra with no reason. Second order again was cancelled by Telstra as there wasn't any infrastructure in place to give me a phone. Order placed by Telstra, to their contractors, to get wires to my front fence. Told by Telstra that I was my responsibility to get wires from front fence into house and into wall socket (since told by Telstra this was wrong) cost $2000 by private contractor who had to lay 75 meters of cable underground as I elected to have underground power and don't have power pole. Telstra contractor laid the cables and connected my cabling to theirs, no dial tone. Advised to call faults who said they would get tech out ASAP that was Nov 23, 1 hour ago still no dial tone. Called Mustaphapoo in Mumbai who told me I must be deaf as my phone was enabled 2 weeks ago at this stage the conversation got very heated and I had to hang up on him. Everytime I call Telstra I get a different person even tho I get a direct number to a case manager and have to go through the entire story again.

Adrian

[Glenhuon]

We had a Dick Smith shop in town quite a number of years ago, the guy that ran it, Dave, was an amateur techy like me. Go in and tell him what you needed, and he would point you in the right direction. One day, walked in, Dave is gone and there's all these young guys in white shirts and ties, who hadn't a clue. Never went back there for years. Recently, went to look for some components, now been taken over by Jaycar. What a change, helpful, know their products, can talk with them and discuss alternatives, they got my custom back. :)
I needed an adaptor for my Optus wireless dongle, wasn't on the shop database, but they sussed out one that looked about right, let me take it home to test it, rang them back to say it works fine. Popped in next day to pay for it, and they added it so they could help the next customer. That is Service :)

[Glenhuon]

Must admit, I'm not a fan of Telstra, most times when I've had a connection job with them it takes forever. But, the last one I did when I had to call the help line I got this Filipino lady and she knew the system, talked me through it, and even admitted it was not as easy as it looks LOL
This lady was not reading off an A4 sheet like many I have spoken with. Telstra should employ more like her.

[Larryp]

Actually their foreign help desk staff are pretty good. They have always sorted the odd internet problem for me-just wish some of them were a bit easier to understand!

[ReaPerMan]

Just had a run in with a Plumber, My 84 y/o mum has a Granny Flat at the back of the house and her bathroom sink has a running tap that's a bit frozen up. I've fixed it as wellas I can but decided to replace it with a tap with a lever system so its easier for her to use. I booked in the plumber for Thursday and was waitng for the parts to come in. When I called him to say they had arrived he told me I was written in his diary for Monday! I have relatives arriving on the weekend and there was no way in hell that I booked it on the Monday, when I told him that he had promised to be here on the Thursday he hung up on me and ignores my calls. I know the tradies have plenty of work but this is just downright rude!

[Stardrifter_WA]

It is hard to agree Bill, as I recently went to Jaycar and asked for a particular item, but the guy serving me was clueless and had to ask another guy about the item. I have no problem with that, as the guy was obliviously new at the store and couldn't be expect to know everything immediately..

However, he asked another guy about it, only to be told that they have never sold anything like that. Funny, I told the other guy, I bought three of them about 4 months ago from Jaycar, to which he stated I must be in error and must have bought it somewhere else. I showed him which shelf they were originally located on, but as always, they keep shifting stuff around.

I then looked in their catalogue and found the item in question. Bit rough having to point out to "expert staff" what products they sell. :sadeyes:

A company is only as good as the people it employs, and most of Jaycar staff are pretty good, just not on this particular day. And yes, I did get what I wanted, but had to wait a few days for it to come in, but that was ok. I was in no rush.

[AdrianF]

In IKEA at Slacks Creek today getting a TV unit. The staff couldn't be more helpful if they tried. I think between Apple Store and IKEA they could show other companies a thing or to about service
IKEA even offered to take my purchases to my car for because that's what they do for seniors

Adrian