$300 Scope for Beginner, Suggestions

[hoxygt]

Hi all,

For many years I have looked at the night sky with bino's and enjoyed the views. I've learnt a few constellations and follow events like comet ISON with interest.

I'm looking to dip my toes in a little further and really don't want to spend more than $300. It seems after much research the Skywatcher Heritage 130 5" tabletop dob looks to fit the bill and has great reviews (for the price) at around $220 - http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-heritage-5-dobsonian-telescope.html

After reading quite a few 'scopes for beginners' articles it seems the best scope is the one you have on you and the little 5" seems very portable. I also travel to country and remote Western Australia and the size of this unit would mean I could take it with me. Something to easily pull out for the kids to show some great moon views or other interesting views would also be great.

Another scope that caught my eye was the Skywatcher Black Diamond
130 x 650P EQ2. Only issue seems to be around the EQ2 mount which I'm reading as being quite a learning curve???

I'm also interested in some additional eyepieces and wondered what people thought of the Celestron Astromaster kit? http://www.ozscopes.com.au/celestron-astromaster-eyepiece-and-filter-kit.html or would perhaps some well chosen Guan Sheng eye pieces from Andrews be a better idea, mind full of the $300 budget. Unfortunately the budget won't really improve as...oh yes I already mentioned the kids ;)

Happy to take suggestions and more than open to ideas, I'm just learning and know very little on this very interesting topic. :)

[Shark Bait]

If you do decide to purchase a SW Heritage 130 (or similar), be sure to test the provided eyepieces before leaving the store. I looked through one recently as the supplied EP's would not allow the owner to achieve focus. If you handheld the EP's just above the focuser you could obtain a focused image.

[CJ]

I bought mine from Ozscopes with no problems and it's quite a neat bit of gear, but the plastic helical focuser is a bit nasty and if you're thinking about possibly attaching a camera in the future, that helical focuser makes it pretty much impossible.

Cheers

[cometcatcher]

MyAstroShop has a 90mm x 900mm Skywatcher refractor on an AZ3 mount for $295. I don't have one myself but from what I read they are a nice entry level scope.

[saturn]

Yeah, I've got a skywatcher 130 heritage flexi dob. Really good for just grabbing and going outside at a moment's notice. Sounds like just what you want for the kids and for just putting in the car and going bush. Relatively small for putting in the car - again, a bonus if you also have to carry camping gear as well as kids, where load space might be at a premium. And it's a complete unit - no need to assemble each time.

Agree with other poster that you might want slightly better eyepieces. Think about aust geo or BTOW (assume you is in Perth) once you check out the suppled EPs. I wasn't totally happy with the supplied EPs, but you might be happy.

One thing about the 130 - there's a loose piece of hard black plastic shaped like a large D in the box (at least, mine was loose). It sticks opposite (or behind, depending on yr frame of reference) the focusser to stop stray light coming directly into the eyepiece. Some reviews I have seen miss this item, which is why I mention it.

[saturn]

one other thing, picking up on another comment re the helical focusser.

I hit the threads of the focusser with WD40 and ran the focusser in and out a few times to coat the threads. Others elsewhere have suggested teflon tape, like plumbers use on tap threads. The focusser is pretty coarse but what do you expect for the price seeing as the optics are OK?

[hoxygt]

If you mean something like this - http://www.ozscopes.com.au/national-geographic-refractor-telescope-90-900-eq3.html?utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc

How would it compare to the 5" dobbie? My limited understanding is that aperture to tube length is 'pushing things a bit' in terms of light collection to magnification ratio? Being a field technician I'm sure I could get my head around the alt/ az mount but it seems this would be a much less portable scope? But then it does seem to come with some handy lenses and filters.

[hoxygt]

Thanks for the replies regarding the focuser. I guess if I was to buy online I wouldn't get the opportunity to test before leaving the shop. Does anyone know of places in Perth that sell scopes and fair prices?

Regarding additional eye pieces and filters, would a moon filter be a worthy investment? 2x Barlow?

[deanm]

Moon filter?

Absolutely, given you intend to view the moon - anything much more illuminated than first or last quarter is (literally) blindingly-bright.

The best I've come across is an infinitely-variable polarising filter like this one:

http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories/Filters/Bintel-Polarising-Filter--1-25--/1596/productview.aspx

Terrific bit of kit!

Dean

[Regulus]

I think Cometcatchers suggestion of the 90x900 refractor is well worth considering.
The 130x650SW refractor is $199 OTA (with tube rings/Vixen Bar/2EPs and finder) from Andrews. U should be able to get a Alt-Az S/H for $100. Definitely the better of the two suggestions because of the extra aperture and the lack of Chromatic Aberration.

[torana68]

don't restrict yourself to new stuff, check Ebay and the classifieds on here. Good things show up from time to time.

[cometcatcher]

The 90mm model at Ozscopes is on an EQ2 mount. They are a pain for grab and go. Alt/Az would be quicker to setup. http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-042E

Both the 130mm and 90mm are good scopes. At f5 the 130mm will give lower power but brighter views making it better for wide field deep sky. The 90mm at f10 would probably have the edge with planets, though the eyepieces it's supplied with are horrible.

Refractors never need collimating but they have some chromatic aberration. It's all a trade somewhere.

[hoxygt]

OK thanks for more food for thought :-)

So regarding the refractors how would say the themoon, Jupiter and Saturn look compared to the 5" dob all other conditions being equal?

Also the 130 by 650 might have less mag but let's in more light - can this be made up for with a Barlow or narrower field of view eye piece?

I have looked second hand but I haven't seen much in my price range and with the brands/ models no longer around it's hard to know if their any good. I do like a warranty too. I will keep my eyes open though!

[cometcatcher]

If it's planets you want, the 90mm refractor may be better. Refractors can be pushed to higher magnifications than reflectors. For deep sky, comets etc the 5" dob would be a little better. It depends what you want to view most.

Both are small scopes and both would be outclassed in every respect by a good 6 inch f8 dob.

[Shark Bait]

Completely agree, but the cost of a new 6" f8 dob is just outside the specified budget and the physical size of the dob sounds like it might be a little too large for the OP's needs.

Can you find an extra $50 to $60? These dobs come with more useable standard eyepieces as well.

2nd hand 6" dobs will come in under the budget limit. :thumbsup:

Can you find the extra space for a 6" dob?

[cometcatcher]

Freight to WA of the 6" f8 would be a killer too unless Santa delivers for free like last year lol.

[hoxygt]

Well the 6" dobs sound like a great starting point but yes - more space/ more dollars and would I still need to buy some eye pieces and filters? Yes I could find the space though - the dobs on the 'newtonian' (did I get that right), would look pretty funky in the lounge besides the speakers and I do have a ute and a wagon so its all doable :)

I'd certainly be on the look out for a second hand 6" but it seems as people progress they hang on to the little 6" for a quick grab scope?

A truss 6" might help with the space issue but I don't seem to see many truss models until 8"+

[SkyWatch]

If you want something portable for your stated budget, then you can't go far wrong with the Skywatcher 130 dob for $220-ish. For that price it looks magic, and is super-portable. You are right in that the EQ mounts take a bit of getting used to- plus the cheaper ones are just that, cheap, and not as stable as the dob- and they are nowhere near as portable or quick to set up. The only thing with the little dob is that the eyepiece height is very low, so you would want to sit it on a nice firm table (or rock if you are out camping!).
Sure it would be nice to get a 6", but the increased aperture won't make much that much difference. If you were going for aperture, you would want to go for an 8" or above to get an appreciable difference in brightness.
In terms of eyepieces, I think you would be better off checking out Andrews (or OzScopes if that is where you buy it) and seeing what than can do for you for a stated budget. I have found Andrews to be knowledgable and accommodating- and you can probably haggle a bit. The Celestron kit you mentioned looks a bit dodgy to me- and even the fact that they have "fully coated", not "fully multi-coated" eyepieces (there is a difference!) raises some doubts. You wont often use the filters either. I think you are better off spending a bit more on better quality eyepieces and not worrying about things like filters just yet.
For planetary viewing: there is absolutely nothing wrong with a well made parabolic reflector, and it will take a fair bit of power. You could probably go to 150x or even 200x with that scope on a good night, and that will give you a lot of detail on Jupiter or Saturn.

Good luck with the choices!

- Dean

[SkyWatch]

PS: Just had a look at Andrews: they have GSO (Guan Sheng) "super-plossl" eyepieces for $29, and SV 68 eyepieces from $39. These are much better quality than a lot of "supplied" eyepieces with beginners scopes. :)
The SV 68 20mm is a great little eyepiece that will give you a very nice wide field view. Couple that with (say) the 4mm and 12mm super-plossl's and you have good quality high, medium and low power views for under $100...
(A few years ago the equivalent would have cost around $400+ !!!)

[hoxygt]

Hi Dean,

Thanks very much for your input. I did wonder about the GSO eyepieces as they seem very cheap but look like quite good quality and it seems Andrews don't really sell rubbish.

I just re-read this old review and feel the Heritage 130 with a couple of eye pieces is the way to go. - http://telescopereviewsuk.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/the-sky-watcher-heritage-130-flextube-dobsonian-telescope/

Regarding the low height I don't think think the 5" Dobbie will be a hassle, I've either got the tray back of a ute, milk crate or a camp table which should serve nicely.

I'm thinking having this tiny scope might be handy in years to come, because I can see the next scope being a lot bigger (8"+) and while no doubt a lot better, it'll be more hassle to lug and from others comments I can imagine the 5" might still come along for the odd spot of casual observing :)

[hoxygt]

Dean would you suggest that range of eye pieces instead of say a GSO barlow?

[SkyWatch]

I suggested those because I hadn't checked what it came with, but I had a bit more of a look and noticed that it has 10mm and 25mm eyepieces: 65x and 26x respectively. I don't know what type of eyepieces come with it though: check if they are plossls, and if so then they should be OK to begin with at least. If you then just got the barlow you would have 130x, 65x, 52x and 26x- which isn't a bad range. I did see that someone had problems with trying to focus with a standard, Meade barlow and suggested getting a "shorty" one- so that is something to check before you buy a barlow.

If you got the barlow and the GSO 4mm plossl, that would give you 162x for nights of good seeing (I don't think you would ever get 324x!), 130x, 65x, 52x and 26x

(For reference, 150x - 200x is usually a good magnification for Jupiter and Saturn. the images aren't huge at those powers, but you can see a lot of detail, particularly with practice. It is not often that you can go over 200x because of atmospheric conditions.)

If your budget is tight, why not just get the barlow and see how you go with the supplied eyepieces. Total cost <$250! Bargain!
Down the track you can upgrade- and if you find that you are getting very sharp images at 130x then you might like to go for a higher power eyepiece (like a 4mm). Christmas is coming up soon!

Because the scope is f5, you will notice that stars get distorted towards the edge of the field, especially with wider-field eyepieces (unless you spend more than the scope on an eyepiece!!!)- but you won't notice it too much with plossl eyepieces.

All the best,

Dean

[hoxygt]

Thanks, the lenses that come with it are not Plossl's and probably mediocre quality but enough to get me started. I'll put the 4mm and Barlow on my Christmas wish list and cross my fingers. I like that the two will then give me a nice range :)