A letter from Grade 7

[Volans]

G'day All,

We had the following letter delivered to the planetarium today. It was printed on letterhead from a school and signed by two grade 7 students.

We are writing a script for a task we have been assigned at school and would like to know a bit more about astronomy. Could you please answer the following questions, sign the bottom as proof that you have given us factual information only and send it back to us. If you have any other things (like a brochure) that you think might help us with the task we would really appreciate it.

Q1. What are stars made of?
Q2. What is the purpose of having the stars?
Q3. What is the purpose of having the sun?
Q4. What is the purpose of having the moon?
Q5. Is it safe to live on the moon?
Q6. What is the temperature like on the moon?
Q7. Would living things survive without the sun, moon or stars?
Q8. We heard the myth about the moon being made out of cheese. What is the moon really made of?
Q9. Is there anything that's edible on the moon?

I have provided the students with factual information only.
Signature:______________
Date:____/_____/______

I was simply stunned when I read the covering note and then became rather annoyed by two things can be inferred from the letter. The first thing is that a teacher has helped them write the letter and this teacher has DARED to imply that we would give out false information to students. The second thing that got me annoyed was that the teacher is condoning students getting their research done by someone else! Added to all of that, questions 2, 3, 4, 7 and 9 are not remotely astronomical in nature.

How would you deal with such a request (don't forget the demand for signing as proof of factual information!)?

Peter.

[mickoking]

Personally, I would answer the questions. Q2 is a tricky one tho :)

[[1ponders]]

If there is a contact number I'd suggest contacting the teacher to find out why the letter was phrased the way it was and the purpose behind the questions.

[xelasnave]

I can see the negative but on the possitive it is an exercise to get them to ask someone who knows.. if kids learn that they are way ahead.
Try not to be too hard on the teacher they receive little coomfort or respect for what they do..they are only people..people who in many cases have not yet left school.. we however expect so much more.
I am always in favour of picking something one can praise and encourage folk.. there is not enough of that style of compassion I recon.
Perhaps alter the disclaimer to qualify that all info is provided in good faith however should be cross checked.
A positive input can produce a positive result I would like to think.
respectfully alex

[RAJAH235]

I agree with Paul, Peter. Contact the teacher concerned & ask him why the "way out" questions. Very strange series of questions indeed!! :shrug:..:D L.
ps. I'd ask to see HIS 'signed & authenticated' teaching certificate/s.. :P

[GrahamL]

The kids wrote these questions themselves i guess.. theres some good in that at least there asking.

So the moon isn't made of cheese then ?...:P

[mickoking]

My answer to question 2;

What is the purpose of having the stars?

The word purpose in the question indicates that stars are there for our benifit, that they serve a function purely for us, mankind. I will leave that debate for the theologians and philosophers. But the stars do serve a very practical purpose in the ways of mankind. With out the stars life wouldn't exist.

Stars are born and like anything else that is born they will die. Stars die in a number of ways usually in violent explosions or gently puffing off celestrial smoke rings. In either case the stars seed the cosmos with the very ingredients that make life possible. Carbon, Oxygen, Iron these elements and many more ensure life is possible and is the reason why we are here to ask questions about the universe.

Boy I'm in ta zone tonight :lol:

[xelasnave]

What is the purpose of having the stars?
Easy they were put there for me to look at:D .
What is the purpose of the Moon:shrug: ..none whatsoever until I get a Lap Top and the LPI working:D .
What is the purpose of the Sun ...I have a Solar Filter:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Universe is larger than we can see (observe) so we must be content with living in "the "Observable Universe" and who ever is the observer (each of us in turn) is therefore at the centre of the Observable Universe and has every right to feel very priveleged as I do...hence my answers:lol: :lol: :lol:
alex

[Argonavis]

well, you could always invite them along to a show ($11 adults $6.50 kids) and tell them they can learn a whole lot more astronomy and they can even get to ask questions at the end!

[xelasnave]

Thats a better idea, kids have field trips for plays, movies beach trips etc what better than an informative (and no doubt humerous Hi Niel:hi: :D ) introduction to the Universe.
And when one pays a price there is a higher appreciation of the service or benefit for most.
alex

[ballaratdragons]

If the teacher did write these questions, you could answer them with the most technical hard-to-understand thesis you can come up with. With a footnote saying: If you cannot understand this, get your teacher to explain it all. :D

[Dujon]

I wouldn't worry too much, Peter. They've probably looked at IIS and come across some of my posts. ;)

[sheeny]

There's some good serious suggestions there Peter (in amongst the banter!:lol: ).

I think perhaps contacting the teacher is good at least to put it all into context. The field trip idea is good if you want to pursue it.

Micko's definitely in the groove with that answer!!!:rofl:

If you are worried about the kids not doing their own reasearch, I suggest you reply with some partial answers and some leads that they can follow up themselves to flesh out the rest. Don't just handit to them all nicely packaged... I love pushing my comfort zone "bubble" and I love encouraging others to do the same - the most rewarding things are those you really have to stretch to achieve!

Best of luck!:thumbsup:

Al.

[ving]

i like this! :D

judging by the phrasing of the letter i'd say the teacher had little to do with the actual questions... look further into what they mean by "wht is the purpose of...".

I can empathise with you on this as i am a librarian, i get this EVERY day :)

[mickoking]

Alex, you are a VERY funny guy :rofl:

[Volans]

Many thanks for your advice.

The boss will be contacting the teacher once school holidays are over and we will find out a bit more on the whys and wherefores of this letter.

I was very tempted, as some suggested, to reply with a terse, high-brow reply (I was even toying with the idea of replying in Latin) but regardless of any odd comments that the teachers may throw in, you have always got to remember the children. I would not give them the answers on a silver platter but I would point them in the right direction.

Peter.

[JimmyH155]

I ,like you, Peter, think this letter is an insult. The teacher obviously read it and posted it. As for the green cheese, that was jokingly said to infants about 50 + years ago. No Grade 7 pupil (we are talking about 11 or 12 years old here) even if he/she was a moron would think that. My wife is a primary school teacher, and what she thinks of the way education is going would send shivers down your spine. This is just an example.
I agree with you, reply in Latin!!

[Shawn]

I have to agree Peter Jimmy, though a reply in latin would probably be mistaken for spelling mistakes, therefor a reply in English would have the desired effect:).. And everybody knows only some of the moon is made of cheese...:P

[Shawn]

The brighter white bits are Icing sugar,,,,duh

[Argonavis]

I am not sure what you think you will achieve by doing that. The teachers grasp of astronomy may come from the astrology columns in the newspaper. I don't think we can expect teachers, and especially primary school teachers, to be highly knowledgable in all fields of science and technology. Most people get limited exposure to this stuff. About all of us are specialists in one field or another.

I suspect all you need to do is provide some information in one form or another. Your job is to educate the public, including students and teachers, not belittle them.

[Volans]

I would not achieve anything by replying to the letter in Latin. Added to that, I can only speak botanical Latin so the letter would go along the lines of:

What are the stars made of? Eucalyptus grandis, Banksia collina var. spinulosa and Sarracenia leucophylla. :lol:

That statement was made in jest and to appease my ruffled feathers. I might also add that, taken in full context, I did say that I would give the students some guidance. I am more than happy to gently educate people (as opposed to ramming stuff down their throat) but my feathers were ruffled because I (or whoever answers the letter) am expected to sign a declaration stating the information given is true. The implication being, if the teacher did not attempt to force me to give factual information by way of the signed declaration, then I would reply with falsehoods.

Respect begets respect.

If the teacher suggested to the students that they should write a letter to the astronomers at the planetarium then that is fine (although, as previously stated, they should really do their own research). The way the questions are worded; well that's not a problem either. Part of my job is to re-interpret questions that are badly phrased. I get this on a daily basis and I'm sure we have all come across the most common one - What magnification should I look for when buying a telescope? That is re-interpreted in terms of aperture.

It was that signed declaration that put a completely new spin on the matter. Why would you ask someone questions pertaining to their field of speciality if you did not trust them to give a factual answer? It is this level of innate mistrust that I find objectionable and hence my annoyance by it.

Here the matter rests until we contact the teacher concerned and gently probe as to why the letter was couched in the terms it was. I'll keep you informed.

Peter.

[Adrian-H]

seems rather ignorant of a letter, but i think you should just answer it honestly and post it back as if they are just mere questions to you. im sure if you reply with something more hmm questioning, you will be only giving these indivudals what they want out of you.

Q2. What is the purpose of having the stars?
(create life)
Q3. What is the purpose of having the sun?
(keep us alive)
Q4. What is the purpose of having the moon?
(i have no idea)
Q7. Would living things survive without the sun, moon or stars?
(not on earth)
Q9. Is there anything that's edible on the moon?
(if you want to eat dirt)

[mickoking]

I agree. Me thinks the Astronomy component at school is pitifully small (it was non existant when I was at school and was only an 'option' in year 12 Physics). Give the answers to the kids questions plus more.

Just my 2 bobs worth ;)

[g__day]

Reaks a bit of intelligent design the way they ask about a purpose. It this were a subtle ID plays I'd be very unimpressed.

Purpose of having a Sun - limit the number of band aids sold, without a Sun we all bump into things more often and need lots of band aids.

Purpose of having a Moon - without you wouldn't have life on Earth, or more strictly only very basic life.

[ving]

yes, keep us informed peter... i'd bve very interested inhow the teacher explains the format :)

[Volans]

G'day All,

It was back to work today after 4 days off with a typical Winter head cold. Working with the public on a daily basis, it's par for the course to get a head cold.

I asked my boss if he had a chance to phone the teacher about the letter and he said he didn't, so I phoned her today.

It's a classic case of mis-communication. The teacher knew what she was talking about but failed to put the details in the letter leading me to think uncharitable thoughts. :doh:

The students are participating in something run by Opti-MINDS Inc.
http://thecouriermail.com.au/extras/blogs/headstart/2006/05/opti-minds-2006.html (http://thecouriermail.com.au/extras/blogs/headstart/2006/05/opti-minds-2006.html)

Basically, they are given a task and are not allowed to get help from either their parents or teachers. They are only allowed to get help from members of the community. The "please sign here" part of the letter appears to have been poorly worded as it is only meant to show that the students have honestly gone out to the community to receive help.

The teacher was quite pleased that I phoned up to make further inquiries and was only too happy to tell me all about Opti-MINDS. She asked me if I had noticed that the students had be vague about what their project was about (I had) and went on to say that they are not allowed to divulge the true content of their challenge as per the rules. She was also very glad that I was not going to give them the answers outright but refer them to various internet sites.

I made mention that some of the questions were not really appropriate (What is the purpose of having the stars/Sun /Moon?) and she told me to say in my reply that these are not the "correct" questions as this will teach the students that they need to think more carefully about the questions they ask.

So after lunch, I spent quite some time trawling the internet looking for sites that would answer their questions. I tried to think like a grade 7 student in terms of understanding content and came up with the following links.

Q1. What are stars made of?
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/stars/star_1.html (http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/stars/star_1.html)
http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/index.shtml (http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/index.shtml)

Q5. Is it safe to live on the moon?
http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/nojs/a11.om.1.html (http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/nojs/a11.om.1.html)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/08sep_radioactivemoon.htm
Q6. What is the temperature like on the moon?
http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/index.shtml (http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/index.shtml)
Q7. Would living things survive without the sun, moon or stars?
http://stardate.org/resources/ssguide/earth_and_moon.html (http://stardate.org/resources/ssguide/earth_and_moon.html)
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0861361.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0861361.html)
Q8. We heard the myth about the moon being made out of cheese. What is the moon really made of?
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=47 (http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=47)
Q9. Is there anything that's edible on the moon?
For this question I gave them an answer but told them to go to the site mentioned as it tells them about the Apollo mission food.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/a11.jo.es.1.html (http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/a11.jo.es.1.html)

I have yet to send the reply letter, but need to do so in a day or two. If any of you know of other sites that would suit the students needs then please let me know.

Thanks for your feedback concerning this matter :thumbsup: It's always good to see how others would tackle a particular situation.

Peter.

[[1ponders]]

The ol' www.wikipedia.com rarely lets me down.

[Volans]

Very true Paul, I have it on my Favourites list both at work and home. However, after viewing some of the articles (particularly about the Moon) I thought it was a touch too high brow for Grade 7. You and I may understand the terminology used but would a 12 year old?

[[1ponders]]

;) :thumbsup:

[Blue Skies]

hmm, yes, asking the right questions - half the fun I have sometimes is working out what the kids are trying to ask me, too! I have run into similar situations (being asked to do homework questions) and politely refused to do their homework for them and given them a push in the right direction instead. I was interested in the outcome of your phone call, so thanks for detailing that. I would also have to say I have been asked recently if the moon was made of cheese and if the ISS was a fueling stop (it's a station, right, so it must be a petrol station...? :doh:) Any opportunity to steer them in a better direction has to be a good one.

[iluvsaturn]

I am so glad to have had my schooling in the 60's and 70's, that's all I can say!