Sky Safari +, Android and LX200

[Shano592]

I downloaded Sky Safari Plus, and I have to say it is an excellent piece of work.

I bought the Plus version to be able to control my LX200 scope. The app says it can do it, with the right hardware.

Basically, I am just logging what I am doing here, so that when it finally works, there will be a record of what I did wrong, and eventually, right.

So, there is the software, loaded onto a Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet. I have root access, so if wifi is needed down the track, then I should be ok to access it.

Firstly, what I would like to do is try to access the scope via bluetooth. With this in mind, I have ordered this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221307731365?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX: IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

To be honest, I'm not sure whether this will be ok out of the box, but if I don't try it, then I'll never know. If it doesn't work, there are other options, such as SkyFi. I have also purchased a small black plastic housing, to place the PCB setup inside. I will cut out an RS232 port hole once it arrives, so that it can be a sealed unit (as much as possible).

The bluetooth kit requires 5v power, so I am adapting a USB phone charger from Jaycar (link below). It takes 4xAA batteries, and outputs 5v by the standard USB connection. The aim is to solder a power connector onto the PCB, and bypass the USB port altogether.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3083&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=997#3

In addition, I ordered one of these, to enable me to mount my Note onto a standard tripod:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150951348976?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX: IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Thanks go to Allan, for his iPad setup at the Pony Club, for the inspiration for all of this. His Orion appears to run seamlessly on a similar - but no doubt cleaner - setup.

BTW, Allan, I will also be copying (stealing) your design for red LEDs in your eyepiece case!

More to come as this progresses.

Mods, please move this if you think it belongs elsewhere. My intent is to see if the software really does work with my scope. If it does, it could be helpful to others as a choice.

[Allan]

Good stuff Shane. I look forward to seeing your setup next time out.

Controlling your scope with a tablet really is the ultimate in convenience. I get to observe way more objects that way as well.

[tlgerdes]

Serial port to serial port will probably require a crossover cable

[Shano592]

You may be right there, Trevor.

Mind you, the serial cable is a Meade one, so possibly not. We shall see, once everything eventually turns up.

[glend]

Shane it might be worth having a chat with Serge at Astro Devices, he has both Wifi and Bluetooth boxes that interface with Sky Safari running on either Android or Apple IOS. He makes up cables for different scopes as well. I am using his wifi box to run my encoders and talk to Sky Safari Plus on my Android tablet. He can drive Servocat from his boxes so its worth asking about your setup.

[Shano592]

Wow, great tip. Thanks, Glen.

[Shano592]

OK, an update of sorts ...

Firstly, everything arrived intact and in good order.

The tablet mount for the tripod is a pretty flimsy one, and will need a spinal brace added to it, to prevent flexing in that direction (downwards!). However, it does mount up to the tripod quick release, and it also holds the Tab, so the first two requirements are fulfilled.

The bluetooth board also arrived, and the news so far is quite encouraging. The USB power supply that I bought from Jaycar doesn't need to be modified, because the bluetooth board has a mini-usb slot, that feeds power to it. I had to dig around in the cable drawer, but I found a suitable cable to feed it with.

So, the board powers on happily, and it links as a slave to my tablet (and my phone, too).

I fitted the bluetooth board into the little housing from Jaycar. I modified it so that the bluetooth board's DB9 connector is screwed into the end, and I notched a hole for the USB power cable to slot in.

So the first couple of hurdles are over. Now, the only ones remaining are:

1. The LX200 accepts communication from SkySafari via this bluetooth unit.
2. The data sent from SkySafari is interpreted correctly, after travelling through this bluetooth unit.
3. The LX200 sends the correct signals back to SkySafari, via the bluetooth unit.

Updates and pics to follow.

[glend]

Sounds like your almost there, I can see that Sky Safari supports the LX 200 in its setting - scope pick list, so it should be fairly straight forward provided the scope accepts from the application. Do you have to do anything on the scope to activate the ability to remote control the scope through that interface board port, ie the DB9?

[Shano592]

Yeah, it has a port for it.

Bintel also sold me an RJ-11 styled cable with a DB9 connector at the other end. Apparently, genuine Meade.

I'll try to hook it all up tonight, if the rain stays below a foot.

I can control it through Starry Night on my PC, using this cable hooked into a USB port via another interface cable. So, the scope does play ... hopefully it will play via bluetooth.

My hope is that this bluetooth board simply relays the information on, then we should be good.

[Shano592]

Well, I tried most of Saturday evening, and I could not get the Bluetooth module to work.

It definitely synchronises with the tablet, but it either isn't getting the signal to the LX200, or it isn't sending the response back from the LX200.

Either way, SkySafari just puts up the same error message, saying that, while it can establish a connection with the scope, it isn't getting anything back (it also says this without the scope being connected, only the BT module).

Without any real options to tweak things on the module, or the software, it looks like it is a dead end. Pity, it would have been a nice, cheap solution.

I guess I will have to look forward, and check out SkyFi. My tab has root, so adhoc wifi is doable.

[glend]

Talk to Serge at Astro Devices, he has both Bluetooth and Wifi boxes that are proven solutions. I use the wifi box with Sky Safari Plus and it works great.

[Shano592]

Thanks Glen. I had a look at the Nexus and BETI ... they are both DSC devices, while my LX200 is Goto.

I just need to try a patch cable, to see if it is the BT module, or a cable issue. My money is still on the BT. I know that more than a few don't work with SkySafari.

[glend]

I use it for DSC/Pushto but that is just one of it's modes - it can also be used as Wifi to Serial adaptor to run GOTO systems. A DB9 cable is supplied with the unit. It can also run ServoCat in native mode. This is all info right out of the manual that came with my unit.

Details here:

http://www.astrodevices.com/resources/Using_Nexus_as_WiFi_to_serial_adapt er.pdf

PS, that setup applies to Android tablets as well.

[Shano592]

Wow, I would never have known that. I couldn't see any reference to it online. Thanks Glen.

I'll keep you posted on the cable, anyway. Hopefully, a cheap, quick, correct fix.

[gary]

Hi Shane,

The first thing you should try is a simply loop back test.

Disconnect the cable to the telescope.

Make sure the switch on the module is set to SLAVE mode.

Using some test clips, short together pins 2 and 3 on the 9-way male serial
connector on the module. See here for which is 2 and 3.
http://www.db9-pinout.com/

Be careful not to short them to the metal shell which will be referenced to ground.

This will then have shorted TXD to RXD. Anything you transmit will be received
straight back.

Grab a Bluetooth Terminal Emulator app. Here is one -
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.pymasde.blueterm&hl=en
There are plenty of others.

Attempt to connect to the module. Anything you type on the terminal
should be echoed back because you have shorted the TXD and RXD pins.

You may need to configure the module. A module such as this uses an "AT"
command set. See manual here -
http://www.electronctl.net/Note/BLK-MD-BC04-B_AT%20COMMANDS.pdf

The manual does not specify whether it will only respond to AT commands via the
Bluetooth interface, its wired RS-232 interface or both, but you could give the
Bluetooth interface a try.

Otherwise you will need to crate a "cross-over" cable, connect it to a PC and
use a terminal emulator like Hyperterminal to configure it.

The manual might suggest that the AT commands expect to be terminated
with a carriage return character and a line feed character.

Just try typing AT followed by the enter key to see if it responds with OK.
If not, try typing AT following by Control-m Control-j which is equivalent to
carriage return linefeed. If that still does not get a response, it might be that
the terminal emulator is intercepting and interpreting control-j and control-m
as just two control characters. Check if the terminal emulator has a configuration
where you can specify the line termination for sending and for receiving.

Historically, the LX200 communicated at 9600 Baud at default.
You should check the Meade manual for your model to determine the expected
Baud rate.

Using the AT command set, you can program an appropriate Baud rate
and check other settings.

At its heart, Bluetooth has a layer called RFCOMM that was purposely designed
to emulate RS-232 serial communication. So you possibly have a simple problem
such that one or more parameters of the module parameters needs configuration first.

There are plenty of modules on the market, including the Roving Networks RN-270M
for Bluetooth or the RN-240 or RM-270 for WiFi. These can be purchased online from
companies such as Mouser.
http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Roving-Networks/RN-270M/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsGelYiB%252bjhZrUNnW8 FPQqzIz2Sf9GxneA%3D

[Shano592]

That is some brilliant sleuthing, Gary. Thank you putting this in front of me.

I have some plastic covered connector cables at home, some looping back will be quick and painless.

I will go through the booklet, and make a note of speeds etc.

Keep you all posted.

[gary]

Hi Shane,

There is a phenomena of what I refer to as the "RS-232 Blues". :)

Historically, there are 25-way connectors and then when IBM came along, 9-way
connectors. Then there are male and female connectors. Some are wired
as DTE's (Data Terminal Equipment) and others as DCE's (Data Circuit-terminating
Equipment) which results, by definition, in the pin assignments of the two being different.
Then there are Baud rates, whether the device would expect hardware handshaking
and so on.

Needless to say, with the exception of Baud rates, you don't need to worry about
any of the above because we know the module you use will have a 9-way
male IBM style D-conector to emulate as if it were a PC.

However, the "loop-back" test is always a tried and tested friend to the engineer
in the absence of other debugging aids such as a RS-232 breakout box
or line monitor when faced with the "RS-232 Blues".

Experience says that chances what you have will probably work after some
re-configuration. :thumbsup:

[Shano592]

I actually have a serial loopback tester that I made many moons ago. I just cant recall whether it is male or female! I know exactly where it is, so I can tell you in a couple of hours.

The Meade's baud rate is 9600 out of the box, and I haven't changed this setting. The BT module is also 9600, but I will make sure via the terminal.

I certainly hope it does work. That would be great. At least if it doesn't I know that I have further options with other hardware.

[Shano592]

I found the loop back tester. It fits just fine.

The problem is with the bluetooth. I can't get it to hold a connection for longer than 15 seconds.

I can't get it to respond to any commands once connected, then it just drops out, every time.

Stumped.

[Shano592]

UPDATE:

I couldn't communicate internlly with the bluetooth, even by hard tether, so I had to let it go for now.

Thanks to GlenD's advice, I have been in communication with Serge at Astro Devices. He has just released a new piece of hardware called the Nexus-S. It allows Wifi to serial communications, without the need for root access (Android).

Serge did stipulate that, for the LX200, I would need my Meade serial cable, as he doesn't yet have one made for this specific brand. Apparently Synscan, EQx, etc are ok out of the box, though.

Shipped, it is about $152. Hopefully, it will arrive before the weekend, so I can slew from cloud to cloud ...

Again, I shall keep you all posted.

[Shano592]

THE CONCLUSION:

OK, after so much grey sky, and general lethargy on my part, I can finally put this to bed with a happy ending.

Sky Safari for Android works really well, with only the occasional hiccup, which I will try to explain shortly.

The Tablet mount for tripod was an easier fix than I thought. A small piece of MDF, glued in at a strategic point, solved the whole flexure problem. Photos to follow.

The WIFI unit (Nexus-S), from Astro Devices (thanks Serge!), worked first time out, after pulling down the refresh rate in Sky Safari to 4, from 10. $152.50 delivered, in December. I will point out that I needed the Meade serial cable (which I already had). Everything else was included. Serge had not had the chance to fabricate one at the time, but this may or may not have changed since then.

I have only had the single opportunity to field test this under dark-sky conditions. But for the 4 or so hours that it was running, I only had 2 instances of the same weird thing happen ..

SS would be happily directing the scope to whiz back and forth across the sky, hitting things right in the middle of the eyepiece, or very close to it. For my scope, a good result!

Then, seemingly randomly, I would go from say, Sirius to Rigel, and the scope would slew to somewhere in the vicinity of Achernar! So I would manually slew back to Sirius (easy target), and tell SS to align on it. After that, it would hit targets again as if nothing was wrong.

This happened twice as I say, in about 4 hours of use, so I'm definitely not complaining about it.

FWIW, I am running SS v1.8.5 on a Galaxy Note 10.1 (N8010), running Android 4.1.2 (stock, but rooted).

[coldknights]

SkySafari 1.8.5 works well on android and they are working on the new version and should be out within the next few months .

We hope it has the direction keys like version 4 for iPad.

We use either Bluetooth or WiFi on android as iPad you can only use WIFI

In the mount type did you have it set correctly as We did not set that part once and had some strange behaviour but once going in and checking the correct mount type we were using a celestron Nexstar alt AZ go at the time and had the equatorial goto German selected once we corrected the mount type all worked like it should do.

[Shano592]

I had Refresh Rate set too high, thinking that it would be "better" (my thinking). Once I turned it down to 4 from 10, it went great.

All of the other settings are correct, as in scope and mount. Though I will need to remember to change it, once I put the wedge on. On the scope. also.

[coldknights]

Good to see it working well for you now ,yes once the wedge is on you will need to change the settings again .

SkySafari for android works great with our EQ8 and our Bluetooth it also remembers the meridian and if the target is on the other side it goes the other way so it won't have cable wrap.
Hope the new version is as good as version 4 for iPad .