Telescope for photography

[hobbit]

Hi All,
I'm quite into photography and was looking at starting to do photos of the different galaxies and nebulas (also like astronomy a fair bit) I currently use a Nikon D800 for most of my earth based landscapes and will be wanting to attach this to a telescope. My question is which one?

I'm pretty much at looking at the:
Celestron nextsar 8"
Celestron C8 SGT
Meade 8" lightswitch
Celestron VX 8"

The meade has automatic everything but it's on a fork mount as is the nextstar which i heard aren't good for photography while the C8 and VX are on better mounts but have more basic electronics. I'm not super technical with space co ordinates so i would like something relatively easy to use.

Thanks

[acropolite]

If you're looking at astrophotography then either of the equatorial mounts (C8 SGT or VX8) would be better, however 200mm F10 is a realtively long FL 2000mm and you may find that a bit limiting, given the price of the OTA's alone, the mounts aren't going to be anything flash.

You may be better to look at a separate mount and OTA, e.g. an EQ6 and ED80 (around 500mm focal length with FR) would be well under the price of any of your selections and would allow for some necessities such as focal reducer/flattener guidescope and autoguider.

[doppler]

Long focal length scopes are wasted on astrophotography because you have to introduce an other element, a focal reducer because the magnification is too high. A 500mm to 1000mm focal length is best for most deep space objects. A good tracking mount is mandatory though.

[jjjnettie]

You can take beaut photos of the larger and brighter galaxies and nebulae just using a camera lens you know.
Maybe a Polarie would be the way to go, to test the waters before taking the plunge.

[hobbit]

Thanks for the replies.
Is this the one you're talking about?
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/SkyWatcher-Black-Diamond-ED80/984/productview.aspx
It looks kinda small, all the articles i've looked at say you need at least 6 inches to be able to see anything.

[renormalised]

An ED80 will see a great many DSO's and other objects. The only advantage a 6" scope has over the small refractor is light gathering capacity, so it will see a little deeper, but not as much as you might expect. The big advantage of the ED80 is it has a clear optical path, i.e. no central obstruction in the form of a secondary mirror/lens and a much wider field of view. That's one of the main reasons why they suggest you get a refractor when you start out astropics. Because of the wider FoV, guiding the scope is easier and more forgiving when it comes to guiding errors. The big advantage of the SCT's in the compactness and large aperture (hence substantially greater light gathering capacity and higher resolution capabilities). The longer focal lengths aren't ideal for wide angle astropics (taking shots of extended objects such as large nebulae and globs), but you can use a focal reducer to remedy that. The longer focal lengths are ideal for small, tight targets such as PN's and planets, where you need the longer focal lengths to produce the increased image scale for such objects.

What is mandatory, though, and the others would agree here is you need a good mount. A HEQ5 is about as light as you'd want to go, but preferably look towards an EQ6 class of mount or larger. Depending on your particular setup. Phil's suggestion of an ED80 on an EQ6 is good and is pretty much the stock standard that most start off with. You can get away with using a fork mount on an EQ wedge, or with a field derotator if you want to use the scope in alt-az, but that just adds to the cost of the setup and more complexity.

Your D800 is a good camera and will take good piccies, but it's not really a camera for taking astropics as its sensitivity to Ha emissions is poor. One of the new Canon 60Da's would be more appropriate as they're designed for taking astropics, or you could get a camera modified for the purpose.

[hobbit]

I've found this one. Telescope plus mount for $2,260
http://www.astroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-042N2

Is that a reasonable price?

[jjjnettie]

The ED80 takes superb images. Just about everyone in astro imaging cut their teeth on one of these. I wouldn't sell mine, ever.
You also need a guide scope and guide camera if you're going to be imaging. You'll have no problems with this unit.
http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/Autoguiders/Orion-Mini-Autoguider-Package/403/productview.aspx

Have you thought about joining an astronomy club? Go to an open night and see first hand what is involved in astro imaging.
Slotting the camera into the scope and taking the pictures is the easy part.
The hardest is spending sometimes hours setting up the scope and aligning it to precisely compensate for the Earths rotation so you don't get the stars trailing in your images.
After a few weeks/months, when you have perfected your polar alignment and drift alignment skills, you can usually have your scope and mount ready to rock and roll in under an hour. :)

[acropolite]

I feel that you would be better to try and find a second hand ED80 if you can, they regularly come up for sale in the icetrade section. The BD (Black Diamond) version has a 10:1 focuser and an inflated pricetag; if you wait, you should be able to find a second hand ED80 for under $400. With regard to the mount, if you're willing to do some learning and use a Laptop, (which is almost a necessity if you are to use a guidescope) then you can buy the EQ6 without the synscan controller and instead use EQmod on the PC.

Not sure where your location is exactly but I'd suggest trying to tag along with someone locally doing AP and particularly someone using EQmod as it offers a lot of advantages over the Synscan hand controller and significant cost savings. You'll also be able to get an idea how everything works together.

If you want to do visual as well, you may be better to buy an 8 inch dob for the visual stuff.

If you're not technically minded you soon will be, you need a level of expertise and understanding to connect the components and operate, it's not something to worry about though, there are plenty of people here willing to help.

[cometcatcher]

+1 for the ED80. A great way to start and learn the ropes.

[hobbit]

Ok. Been looking and have found this.

BD ED80 w/EQ3PRO package with synscan $1899
Orion Mini Autoguider Package $499
BYO camera
Total $ 2398
Does this look OK to get started?

[Larryp]

I think the mount would be inadequate. You would need at least an EQ5 Pro or preferably an HEQ5 Pro

[jjjnettie]

The mount wouldn't be heavy enough for the job. You'll find even walking near the scope will cause vibrations that will ruin your shots.
Have you checked out Andrews Communications yet?

http://andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

[hobbit]

Yeah that's where i found the scope and mout package

[jjjnettie]

You know your local Astro Society would have mounts and scopes that you can hire very very cheaply so you can get an idea on what might suit you best. :)

[hobbit]

Yep. I've been looking for one.

[sil]

Do you know how to take and process astrophotos with the D800? Existing knowledge won't help much (I've got over 20yr photography experience and use a D800e for astrophotography...mostly I shoot camera + lens on camera tripod...nebulae, clusters, galaxies are all possible this way).

Processing is not something you can just knock up an action for and will take hours to do a reasonable job of it. While the process workflow you take will probably remain constant the values and adjustments will vary.

It's not just attaching the camera to a scope and pushing a button.

[Poita]

Forget the EQ3, you will just learn to hate it, and lose money selling it to get a better mount. Grab a HEQ5Pro or better, if you want to do photography, the most important things are the mount and
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Seriously, get the best mount you can.

[Poita]

Re processing, grab some RAW data that has been posted on the forums and have a crack at it before you spend a dollar. If you enjoy it, go spend up. If you hate the processing or find it really hard, then sort that out first before you spend a cent. You will spend far more time processing data than catpuring it, so make sure you enjoy that part of the process before parting with any money.

e.g. Download the M27 data from here: http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/raw_stacked_data_for_practice_page. htm
(The other datasets are no longer working, but the M27 raw data is there)

Or here:
http://mistisoftware.com./astronomy/index_fits.htm

[jjjnettie]

Is this close to you?
http://www.sasi.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=35

[hobbit]

Yeah it's not too far. I'll check them out.

[mkeech]

could anyone tell me what they think a fair price would be to ask for a new neq6pro mount , only unboxed twice

[impactcrater11]

all good advice here....if you don't know which scope you need for astrophotography , you are not ready for it.
you have an excellent camera , so no problems there.
in today's world a few small photos of the rings of jupiter will leave people wondering why you do it. they are used to fabulous images...
you need dark clear skies to get 'wow' images...
the scope needs an equatorial mount...
it needs to track the object for hours of photos....
the scope needs a BIG aperture and I'm talking 16 inches for the 'wow' factor

the retailers in oz answer questions wonderfully , and they will give you options , and then you still need to understand what your photos will end up being like...
finally, lots of astro photos show things which equire special filters and false colour imaging ....

[cometcatcher]

I don't know if throwing newbies in the deep end is such a good idea lest they drown. Plus I've seen many 'wow' images with camera lenses and short tele's.

[Larryp]

I used to be secretary of this society many years ago, and they are a great bunch of people. You would find lots of help there, and they have an equatorially mounted C14 which is used for photography-members can take part once trained in equipment use.
I would suggest looking on IIS at the images taken by members-most list the equipment used, and this would give you an idea of what you need for whatever type of imaging you want to do.:)

[Forgey]

Many images on this forum are taken with a 80mm or 100mm telescope and they are 'WOW' . In fact a good starter telescope is the ED80.

Dark skies help but I have gotten images from the suburbs.

[2stroke]

ROFL 16" , so forget about that $13K taki 6" TOA-150B because its just cheap junk? Lol this post is going to a few other forums and friends for the lol factor. What a 16" gso newt kills a TOA-150 ? man why are we all buying into taks?

hahaha best post of the year :eyepop:

[Larryp]

Quite true, Jay. And as Paula has said, some of the best images you will see have been taken through an ED80

[2stroke]

Anyhow just look at he guys who have a few post and there advice is spot on. The ED80 is a great scope, you could go a ed100 or ed120 pending your budget and a nice eq6 or heq5. The ED80 has a very nice FOV with a dslr sensor and gives a lot of forgiveness with guiding or without. It pretty much the prefect scope to start with and nearly everyone has who is into imaging, its just the best bang for buck scope there is and perfect for the novice and even seasoned veterans. You could jump into it deeper but it comes down to budget, and well since your hard on using your stock dslr i doubt you have pocket fulls of cash.

Anyhow pool the advise given here and the average speaks the truth, as for mounts it the base of imaging and well yer a heq5 is about the minimum you want, the eq6 offers a bigger payload though the heq5 is perfect for up to a max of a 8" newt (its pushing it to the limits but its proven and done) and will handle almost any APO refractor with in price reasoning to the mount cost just fine. The eq6 is better because it will handle a 8" newt alot better and there have being a few users who have put a 10" newt on them and imaged.

All this gear is synta aka sky watcher/Orion/saxon and is what you call entry level and will produce some very great images, though after this things will start to sky rocket price wise and you can worry about upgrading when your reached the maximum potential you can go with this gear, many years away trust me lol. After that Tak scopes, sbig ccd's and mx mounts ect will come into the picture, sbig ccd's and other ccd's more likely way before hand :)

[impactcrater11]

'Zero Image-Shift Microfocuser. Optional for the 8", 10", 12",14" and standard with the 16" models, allows you to obtain precise image focus with no image movement. Perfect for astroimaging or during planetary observation. Focus is controlled thru the Autostar II handbox.'

please note this is a direct quote from "Meade' and refers to the Meade LX200 ACF series of scopes....hard to beat perfection !

[impactcrater11]

hobbit,
I express my admiration to you . whilst some have called your camera 'stock' and implied some monetary difficulties for your equipment purchases , I can only say you have a real interest in photography considering that your camera is a NIKON D800 DSLR which retails locally for $3, 389 for the body only and I know that the lenses can run to similar costs.
All I can say is aim high and WOW me !