History get frightening every day.

[astroron]

A thread was going a while ago about Nuclear Weapons.
It cannot get any more frightening than this:eyepop:
Gary Koppf,This just adds another dimension to an already litany of
bungles and other near disasters with nuclear weapons.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24183879

Cheers:thumbsup:

[skysurfer]

Why is it kept hidden for over 50 years ?
Probably to proceed to the the US-induced wars like Vietnam or Iraq ?

[CJ]

It's a matter of when, not if, isn't it?
Accidentally or otherwise.

[Hans Tucker]

Anti-American rants aside most governments of many countries have a practice of withholding information that they deem not in the public interest for a period of 30-40 years. After this period it may or may not get release to the public.

[gary]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the link. It was long believed the Goldsboro accident was a close call
but this document confirms it.

There are still warheads that have yet to be recovered in the Atlantic,
one off the coast of the state of Georgia and a couple near the Azores.

[MortonH]

Jeez,

That is truly frightening.

[sn1987a]

Meh! pretty tame compared to the Cuban Missile Crisis.:sadeyes:

[Hans Tucker]

I believe the ex-Soviet nuclear submarines which lie rotting on the beaches of the Barents Sea, near the Russian city of Murmansk pose a bigger risk.

[blink138]

but it didnt........... and that is why we can talk about it now......... thank goodness!
pat

[Barrykgerdes]

I think we would all be surprised if all the "near misses' had or will hit the media

I have been personally involved in a naval near miss that was never reported.

Barry

[gary]

One of the concerns today is the breakdown in discipline in the handling of nuclear
weapons.

This was highlighted in May this year when the USAF suspended 17 officers,
some 5% of staff, from duties controlling nuclear missiles at the 91st Missile Wing
at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota (http://www.minot.af.mil/units/91stmissilewingunits/index.asp).

This base manages one-third of the 450 US ICBM's.

The suspensions came after an inspection revealed a "breakdown in overall
discipline" which led to violations of rules and procedures.

Story by The Guardian here -
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/08/us-airforce-nuclear-missiles

This was despite a US DoD Feb 2008 "Report on the Unauthorized Movement
of Nuclear Weapons" that due to what it described as "declining
focus and an eroding nuclear enterprise environment for at least a decade",
an incident occurred whereby a pod of cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads
was flown across several states of the US without the B-52 flight crew being aware
they were carrying the "hot" weapons.

The US DoD report, which makes for interesting reading, is here -
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/AJDocs/20130508_BarksdaleReport.pdf

As the report states, since the end of the Cold War and the demise of the Soviet
Union, there has been a gradual decline in focus in policies, procedures and
processes in handling nuclear weapons. For example, when SAC was disestablished,
the commands handling nuclear weapons were incorporated into others which had
not handled such weapons before nor had a "body of expertise" in handling them.

In regards to the suspension of the officers in May, Associated Press reported that
they had seen an official internal email that "describes a culture of indifference, with at
least one intentional violation of missile safety rules and an apparent unwillingness
among some to challenge or report those who violate rules".

After the anarchy caused by the breakup of the Soviet Union, there was much
concern that Soviet nuclear weapons or materials may fall into the wrong hands or
a mistake be made.

Of equal concern today are the US commands charged with handling and deploying
nuclear weapons becoming increasingly blasé about them.

[astroron]

Quote)
Meh! pretty tame compared to the Cuban Missile Crisis.:sadeyes:

As a soldier based only 80kms from the East German border at the time of the "Cuban Missile Crisis" I can tell you it was a nervous time, But the difference here was that the weapon was physicly dropped, but for a small malfunction could have been the start of WW111.
While there was Jaw! Jaw! Jaw! there was always a chance that war would not commence.
In my opinion this is incident was on par or even more serious than the "CMC"
That we were not told about it is it's only saving grace IMHO.

Quote)
I believe the ex-Soviet nuclear submarines which lie rotting on the beaches of the Barents Sea, near the Russian city of Murmansk pose a bigger risk.

A bigger risk than a bomb that was actually dropped? but for the "Luck":question: of a failed switch could have started a conflagration of unimaginable consequences, I think Not.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[sn1987a]

"Fog of war" documentary.

Castro ready to use short range tactical nukes to defend Cuba if invaded. Americans didn't even know of their existence there until revealed decades later.

That whole era was fascinating.

I love a film called "7 days in May", worth a look.

[gary]

Hi Barry,

You might be confusing the movie "Seven Days in May" for another, "Thirteen Days"? :)

The later is a depiction of the Cuban Missile Crises starring Kevin Costner and was
made in 2000.

The former is a wonderful film made by John Frankenheimer in 1964 starring Kirk Douglas,
Burt Lancaster, Ava Gardner and Fredric March with a screenplay by none other than
Rod Serling based on a book by Fletcher Knebel and Charles W. Bailey II.

A fictional story, it is one of my favourite films.

When the US President, played by Fredric March, makes a decision to sign a nuclear
disarmament pact with the Soviets, the hawkish Joint Chiefs within the Pentagon lead
by a general with political ambitions, played by Burt Lancaster, plots a military coup
to overthrow the United States government.

An aide to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a marine colonel played by Kirk Douglas,
is not in on the plot but grows suspicious.

After a meeting of the Joint Chiefs, he retrieves a crumpled note that reads
"Airlift ECOMCON. 40 K212s at Site Y by 0700 Sunday. Chi. New York. L.A. Utah"
which he interprets to mean "Emergency Communication Control involving
an airlift of 40 USAF cargo planes to somewhere called Site Y and to Chicago,
New York, LA and Utah, where the country's major communications hubs happen
to be.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

[sn1987a]

No I wasn't confusing the films lol, like you it's one of my favorites. I mentioned it because although fictional, it came to mind. It gives a flavor of the time and is gripping. I thought some on ISS might enjoy it if they hadn't ever seen it.:)

[gary]

Hi Barry,

Very good! :thumbsup:

It was one of the trinity of great films made in 1964 about the Cold War
and nuclear deterrence, the other two being Stanley Kubricks Dr. Strangelove (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove) and Sidney Lumet's Fail Safe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail-Safe_(film)).

Frankenheimer himself a wonderful series of films in the 60's including
Birdman of Alcatraz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdman_of_Alcatraz_(film)), The Manchurian Candidate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate_(1962_film )), The Train (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Train_(1964_film)), Seconds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seconds_(film)) and
Grand Prix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_(1966_film)).

Now and then I will treat myself to a John Frankenheimer movie tribute and watch
all of them over a span of several weeks. :lol: It is always nice to end it with
Ronin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_(film)).

One Cold War film I have not seen aired for a long time is Frank Perry's
Ladybug Ladybug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladybug_Ladybug_(film)) made in 1963.

When a rural elementary school in the US receives the alarm that a nuclear
attack is imminent, the principal, teachers and children don't know if the alarm
is real or bogus.

The 1988 cult film, Miracle Mile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mile_(film)) is a fictional work that takes place in Los Angeles.
A guy is using a payphone outside a diner at 4am in the morning to apologize
to a girlfriend. To his surprise, the payphone rings and when he answers it there
is a frantic voice at the other end who has mis-dialed and thinks he is talking
to his father. The frantic voice says that a nuclear war is about to break out
in fifty minutes. Gunshots are then heard and the voice goes silent.

The film had a soundtrack by Tangarine Dream.

Review with clips -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S62bs8fhE_I

[GrahamL]

Human error and mechanical failure !.. there was always a chance we would do something really stupid with nuclear weapons simply by both conspiring together through chance.

http://rt.com/news/soviet-nuclear-petrov-stanislav-221/

anyone seen The Road ? ,,bleak film

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the link to a most interesting story.

Here is a link to a PBS article by Dr. Geoffrey Forden of MIT that
includes this and other incidents -
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/nuclear-false-alarms.html

A more detailed paper by the same author is here -
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa399.pdf

[Shark Bait]

'The Road' was on TV recently. There was no direct reference to the cause of the situation the survivors find themselves in. I was thinking it might have had something to do with a massive volcanic eruption (Yellowstone?). I read that some of the Indonesion volcanoes could cause worldwide problems if they erupted. The earthquakes throughout the movie led me to think it was a volcanic event.

Did the survivors display symptoms caused by radioactive fallout?

[GrahamL]

No there wasn't a reference , or in the book,probably didn't need to I guess ,whatever occurred was a major interruption to life on our world.
The boys father became very ill but again no reference , there was a flash early in the film , I thought comet maybe or nuclear exchange.

[TrevorW]

We are the only creature capable of destroying ourselves-who knows we may succeed only time will tell :)

[Davi5678]

The Road was one of the most traumatic films I've seen. I couldn't bring myself to watch it a second time. Left the cinema feeling nothing but despair.

I read somewhere that three out of four failsafes failed on that bomb.
At some point engineers must have had a discussion about how many failsafes were necessary. The world owes someone out there.

[atkinsonr]

Threads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads) is the kind of movie that leaves you staring at the TV in silence for 30 minutes after the credits role.

Having grown up in England in the 70's / 80's it really strikes a chord.

The whole movie is on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MCbTvoNrAg