Newbie - Binocular zoom or no zoom

[ManUtdFans]

I am tempted to buy a binocular first for few months and then go for a scope later.
First not sure go for a zoom or no zoom.
eg
20x80
or
12-36x70

[niko]

no zoom in my opinion

[Larryp]

Definitely not zoom

[dannat]

the high end of the zoom will be unusable -better quality eyepiece in fxed zoom -i prefer 15x70 over 20x80 -much lighter, easier to mount, can handhold briefly for very short periods
where are you thinking of buying from

[Shark Bait]

The bigger the binocular, the harder it is to hold still. Some like to mount their binoculars to allow for easy, steady views of the night sky. Camera tripods are ok but not great when you want to look near the zenith. A parallelogram is the best solution for heavy binoculars. You can buy them but they are not that hard to make from scratch.

My 7x50's will just include the Crux in the field of view (7.1 deg). They are mounted on a homemade parallelogram but are light enough to hold if just having a quick look.

I agree with the others, avoid zoom bino's.

[mental4astro]

Zoom binos have more moving elements than fixed magnification binos. Getting all of these elements to remain collimated, along with the focusing mechanism, is very difficult, and expensive. During the day, this isn't a problem, as we are viewing extended objects. At night, stars are point sources of light, and the miscollimation is much more apparent.

Fixed magnification binos too can actually be out of collimation even though a day time examination of the set all appears fine. Again it is for the same reason of extended objects vs point source.

Astronomical binos though usually have the advantage of having a set of collimation set screws under the rubber dressing that covers the prisim casing. This is good, not only to fine tune them if they are just out, but also if the binos get a sharp knock which may shift the prisms, tweeking these set screws will reset the collimation.

My 11X70 binos looked fine when I inspected them instore. At night they were just out. By the time the misalignment finally wore me down the warranty period had expired. I just carefully lift the rubber of the prism casing, marked the original starting point of the collimation screws, and then tweeked them an 1/8 turn one at a time until the collimation was perfect. The right side I tweeked anticlockwise, the left clockwise. If the collimation became worse, it was then just a matter of reversing the rotation of the respective screws. Took all of 2 minutes to do, and I'm happy as Larry. Oh, and this collimation process has to be done at night as a point source of light is necessary (doesn't matter if it is a star cluster as each star is point source).

[ManUtdFans]

I am thinking of buying from TaoBao(Chinese biggest website):
Celestron Skymaster 12x60
$137 shipped

Celestron Skymaster 15x70
$150 shipped

Bosma 15x70
$150 shipped

I thought to buy a 20x80 and mount it on my DSLR tripod.

Any other suggestions?

[mental4astro]

Alan, I re-read your original post. As mentioned, 80mm binos are BIG, and they require a tripod, or better still an isostatic mount such as a parallelogram mount to view comfortably AND safely.

70mm binos are also fantastic. As I mentioned below, my astro binos are 11X70. I could have gone for 15X70, or 20X80, but went with the ones I did for a few reasons: one, they have a wider field of view being lower magnification, 4.5degrees true field of view; two, they are smaller than the 80's; three, higher magnification binos are much more difficult to hold steady.

My first dark sky experience with them blew my socks off! :eyepop: Omega Centauri was actually resolved in them! It looked like a fantastically tight pincushion, but the stars were resolved! And the amount of detail of dark nebulosity that totally ripples throughout the entire Milky Way is totally invisible in ALL my larger telescopes. This is something that a rich field scope totally excels at. Even areas of the sky that isn't through the Milky Way still shows oh-so-subtle variations in background illumination. Just stunning. The sketches below were done using my 11X70 binos. The first is of Eta Carina nebula from home in Sydney. The second I did from memory of the area around M8 and M20 and the dark nebulosity that stunned me (I didn't have my sketching stuff with me that night, but the impression it made on my mind I still see crystal clear!).

Some food for thought.

PS, have a look at Andrews Communications. You'll find better prices there, and postage is usually just $10.

[ManUtdFans]

Hi Mental,

Are these 2 "sketches" photos taken from your binoculars by DSLR?

[mental4astro]

Sketches, mate :thumbsup: . Pencil and paper in the dark at the eyepiece with a feeble red light. In this case, soft pastel on black paper. The link in my signature will take you to more of my pieces.

[ManUtdFans]

I found from eBay:
1) Barska 15x70 X-Trail BAK-4 Fully Coated (Eye relief 20mm, looks promising to me wearing glasses person)
$94 shipped
2)Celestron Skymaster 15x70 (Eye relief 18mm)
$110 shipped

Anyone used Barska before?

[mental4astro]

I don't know the quality of the brands you mention (Celestron binos so cheap!?). What I do know is the cheapest pair (eBay usually) aren't much chop. You will be better served with a pair stating "multi coated" which are a higher standard. Also, many of these cheapies are not really what they state. I've seen advertised 80mm binos that are actually 50mm! These cheapies too can have a very narrow field of view, with nothing to do with the stated FOV.

The 11X70 I have from Andrews is $169. So are their 15X70. I have no problem recommending their binos & their service is top notch. Any problem with the binos & they will deal with them. That is something that the ultra cheapie sellers can't offer. Other retailers here in Oz will do the same.

[ManUtdFans]

Hi Alex,

Ah...agree.
I think will go for the branded one: Celestron 15x70.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390589780518?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX: IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Edit:
Sorry, my mistake.
It should be $120. I could not do the maths. :(

[ManUtdFans]

This leads me to my original thoughts:
If I go for 15x70 (~1.4Kg), I have to put it on tripod (the one for DSLR) anyway because it is still too heavy to hold in hands. How about the difference from the 20x80(~2.2Kg)?

[Draco]

Hi Alan

I had the same predicament a couple of months back. I have the same binos like Mental .. a 11x70. These are awesome binos however at the time i was purchasing it, I didnt anticipate getting a telescope. So I bought a tripod as well since anything more than 50mm aperture will start to get too heavy after while, and your view will be shaky without a tripod.
As much as I love my 11x70, I still wish I could have gone with the Orion MiniGiants 9x63 from Bintel. They come to be abit pricey at $329 but are well worth the money.
Binos are best used without tripods since if you are going to use a tripod then they are no better than getting out your telescope (unless your telescope is much much much heavier). Binos are for grab-n-go situations where you are not much into magnification but for the portability and for the wide angle view.

At the end of it all, I would suggest you check out these binos in person.Have a feel for them (try bintel.. i think they stock the ones you mentioned) and then decide. Remember, these will be what you will use most of the time, so you need to be comfortable with them. Its no point getting one that will spend more time in storage than out under the sky ;)

all the best mate

[ManUtdFans]

I have looked at the Chinese website and just scared me.
Even if I buy the binoculars from Australian shops/online, there are still possibilities that these shops/online shops imports from there Chinese counterpart? And they might be clones of the original.

[ManUtdFans]

Can 10x50 binocular really 'see' galaxy at dark night? Or other star clusters?
I will consider to buy one for me son (11 yo) as he can hold by himself.

[mental4astro]

From a dark site, most definitely!

From up in the Blue Mountains, I've seen Centaurus A, M83 and M104 through a 30mm finder.

From my home in Sydney, I've seen all the above three in a cheapie 10X50 set of binos, and routinely still do with a 50mm finder. It's getting harder though every year with more and more light pollution. But knowing what to look for does help. However, from a dark site, they are unmistakable.

From a dark site, the number of galaxies a 10X50 set will show is fantastic. Others include M31 (the Great Andromeda Galaxy), M33, NGC 253, NGC 55, NGC 300 & M81. Don't forget the LMC and SMC - these are galaxies too, and binos are excellent to capture a wide field view. The SMC also has two globular clusters very close to it, one being the giant 47Tuc.

Binos being a pair rich field refractors, and one for each eye, will reveal more detail than one imagines. For some objects, even a 50mm pair will show objects that are very difficult, even impossible, with my 17.5" scope.

From Sydney just a month ago, I saw M31 with my 11X70 binos. Pretty much just its core, but there it was. This despite its low elevation and being placed above Sydney's CBD from the direction my home is situated. Tried for M33 at the same time, but it eluded me - just too faint. From a dark site, these are gorgeous.

What you won't see though is too much detail. Most will appear just as a faint fuzzy, but definitely not a pin point stars.

I always take my 11X70 binos to Katoomba Airfield, regardless of what scope I also may take. I've learnt to never underestimate their capability. You're welcome to have a go with them if you like.