good-ish tabletop scope?

[JJDOBBER79]

HI there,
I recently got into astronomy and bought a 6 " dob. Ive been telling my dad about it and he sounds interested so its his birthday coming up and I was thinking of getting him a scope. I was thinking of getting him one of the tabletops for 2 reasons
1.) easy to use/setup.
2.) cheap. I dont know if hes gonna get hooked like I am so didnt want to spend too much. If he likes it he can get himself a bigger/better scope.
I dont know if they are any good so, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with these. I am looking at the following scopes.

orion 90mm starmax mak-cas
http://www.amazon.com/Orion-10022-TableTop-Maksutov-Cassegrain-Telescope/dp/B002JO06PO

National Geographic 114/500, Is this a toy??????
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/national-geographic-114-500-compact-telescope.html

Orion Skyscanner 100
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/Orion-Sky-Scanner-100mm/1007/productview.aspx

or anything else that you guys could suggest. probably like to keep it under $200.
:thanx:

[LAW]

I've got a Celestron "Firstscope" which is basically the same as the Orion (but cheaper on ebay ;)). It's quite satisfying, I took it when I visited my sister out west and there was plenty of detail in Omega Centauri, Jewel Box, and Saturn to have my family oohing and aahing. Obviously if you want a better image then buy a better scope, a $100 4" F/4 Newt is NEVER going to compete with a 'proper' scope. But it will certainly show him some sky, and it's infinitely better than a wobbletronic Tasco.

[dannat]

If it were me I'd probably get the star ax, it will at least provide ok planet views, the 114 short tube is mostly a widefield instrument & can be a pain to get collimated right.
The sky scanner at f4 will also be a pain to colimate
A pair of 10x50 binos will come,ent the narrow field of view of the mak cass.

Another option is the skywatcher heritage 130, a bit more aperture-the geographic shop sometimes has specials on their scopes, can also be bought from ozscopes or ebay

[bigjoe]

Jas I'd go for a mak.

It can be used for terrestrial, eg, birding, looking at the boats on the bay etc.

If his interests change.

Ps: These maks soak up the magnification when cooled down.

Also with an 32mm plossel, not bad on open clusters. Eg : jewel box, and all around the southern cross, and work really well with Orion expanses wide fields.

CHEERS BIGJOE.AND GOODLUCK.:thumbsup:

[Suzy]

Hi Jas, that's a really nice thing you're doing for your dad :).

Aside from my 10" dob, I also have a 4" tabletop dob. And I love it to pieces and use it a lot. I too, looked at the Orion Skyscanner but at half the price combined with Mozzie on here too who's got one, decided to go for the Kson. Comes in very handy for quick sessions or for travelling with. Jupiter, Saturn, globular clusters- so much is available on the menu plate through these.

As for being "tabletop" I have to say (am I the only one here?) that I don't find it very comfortable to use this way. As the scope aims higher in the sky, the eyepiece gets higher and I'm constantly adjusting my seating. Now I know I do this with my 10" dob but it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem :shrug:. Maybe because the tables are an awkward height I wonder. But I'm just being ultra critical here. One can just stand :P:lol: Only because I find it much more comfy to sit on the mat on the ground and observe with it on ground level. Or perhaps if he's older, a shorter table to put it on.

This is what I have:
http://www.opticscentral.com.au/kson-4-table-top-dobsonian-kids-telescope.html#.UgZYw6zLLKc

Review here:
http://www.astronomyforum.net/dobsonian-telescopes-forum/136615-new-kson-dobsonian-telescopes-best-value-astronomers-us-down-under.html

The tube is solid (metal), the mirror is glass, but the focusser and attached screws and red dot finder are plastic. But hey I don't think that matters much. It performs surprisingly well! The eyepieces are plastic & so's the barlow lens :rolleyes:. Well... they do the job. But if you can replace them with plossls much better! You should be able to buy plossls quite cheaply in the classifieds here or people might actually give them to you. I find a 15mm eyepiece is the highest I can go with stars. With brighter objects like the planets and the moon I can go down to a 10mm eyepiece. But the 15mm is the one that hits the sweet spot the best on everything and that's the one that gets 98% of use. The 15mm size didn't come with the scope, so if you're going to get at least one plossl, get that one. A wide view, say 65 degrees would be even better.

And if he wants, he can go one step further with it like I have and adapt to do solar viewing too. Very quick and easy scope to observe the sun with :D. I've (okay not me persee I'm useless- hubby) cut a hole in the dust cover and made a filter using some tubing and solar film. So that stays permanently on my scope as it's part of the dust cover. To observe at night, you take the cover off.. as you do...

I was in the Australian Geographic shop the other day and I spotted this (http://shop.australiangeographic.com.au/-Skywatcher-130-Dobsonian-Telescope-P2006.aspx). A 5" collapsible dobsonian for $269. Everything was solid (I couldn't see any plastic bits anyway). But! I think if you're going to spend that sort of money, one is better off with a 6" dobsonian for around $300-ish they usually go for. I had a 6"- it'll see a lot and is considered the entry telescope for deep sky observing. Second hand you can pick them up for around $200 these days. And ooops I just realised you said you got a 6" so you know where I'm coming from.:lol:

Perhaps give him a binocular observing book such as Robert Bee's book, "Heaven's Above" to go with the tabletop scope. Ooops can't seem to find it available online anymore:question: Anyway, here's another which is well respected and often recommended (tho I haven't read it myself):
http://www.philharrington.net/tubrevu.htm
And don't forget our fellow forum member, Les Dalrymple does a monthly binocular target article in each issue of Australian Sky & Telescope Magazine.:thumbsup: Binocular objects are perfect for this size of telescope.

Good on you Jas! :thumbsup:

P.S.
If you want some great targets for your 6" scope, take a look here at an article I did. Some of the galaxies on the list though will do better viewed from a dark site.
Highlights of the Winter Sky (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-691-0-0-1-0.html)


P.S.S. (again lol)
I just found the Heavens Above book- seems it's temporarily sold out. It's a very popular book- I've read it, it's a great book. Fishpond online do sell it but of course it's unavailable there at the moment too.
http://www.macastro.org.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:heavensabove&catid=41:categorymerch

[JJDOBBER79]

Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for the information which was super helpful as always. I think I am going to go for the heritage 130 due to the extra aperture. I found it from Gerry Gibbs camera warehouse for $199. Particular thanks to Suzy for her winter targets. this is exactly what I need now as I am yet to see another galaxy. I went out to the country last weekend and had some awesome observing. 3 planets, tarantula, orion neb and of course the meteor shower. I tried again for the virgo cluster.(this just keeps alluding me) I know where I am looking and I just see nothing) I even tried andromeda and couldnt see it. Got first views of LMC and SMC which kept me busy for a while. I would love to see a galaxy next. Thanks again

[bigjoe]

Yes 130mm is decent aperture.

Great price!

You will even get partial resolution on globs esp. M22, m4, ngc6752 etc at power.

And easily see galaxy m77.

It is odd you can't see Andromeda (are you looking in the right area, get a chart).

I can easily see Andromeda in my finder in light polluted Sydney!
Cheers bigjoe:)

[brian nordstrom]

:) Yes Andromeda is a bright cigar shaped smudge in my 8x56 binos , best seen around October when its at its highest , early evening .
Your new 130mm will show it very well , enjoy the new scope , great choice .
Brian.

[Suzy]

Hi Jas,

Your 6" and your father's pending 5" will have no trouble getting Andromeda as Brian and Joe have said. I can spot it too in my 10x60 binoculars. From a dark site you can actually see it naked eye! Well, a faint smudge anyway naked eye, but it's quite sizeable.
As it's so large, use the 25mm eyepiece so it fits within the field of view (fov). If you use a 10mm eyepiece you'll likely be looking straight through it.

Galaxies are best viewed as high as possible in the sky. Especially if there's light pollution around. But even if you don't suffer from light pollution, there's a lot of muck in the lower atmosphere that inhibits decent viewing. Planetary viewing at that alt. is a good example of that. Andromeda doesn't get all that high here, from Brisbane the highest is around 30 degreees. But it's still good viewing.

In summer, I would suggest waiting till after 8pm when astronomical twilight is well and truly out the way so the sky is a bit darker.

An important part of planning an observing session is to write down in order when objects are highest in the sky. So you would start your session with the objects you want to see BEFORE they set too low. And the ones rising later. A software programme such as Stellarium (download it on-line) will help greatly to plan your session.

Dark adapt your eyes, minimum 10 mins, 20 is better, especially for galaxy viewing. Galaxies are often very faint smudges and most quite small. The quality of the sky at time of viewing will also yield different viewing results as to what detail is available. So don't give up on an object- keep going back to it, either that night or other sessions. Don't expect to see a lot though from a 6" scope looking at face on spirals (the arms). Although you'll be able to spot some galaxies, the size of a 6" in my opinion from my experience isn't the best at resolving a decent amount of detail. That being said, my 10" thru light pollution really doesn't reveal a whole lot on many nights, but better than the 6". When I talk about revealing detail, I'm talking about being able to see mottling, dust lanes and arms in a galaxy. Even the Leo triplet is hit and miss for me- sometimes revealing nothing but smudges and other times a bit more. Just be glad you nabbed a galaxy and be in awe of how far away it is and how long that light took to travel to get to your eye. The Sombrero galaxy (M104) for instance is around 40 million light years away! I nabbed that with my 6" thru light pollution but it was a very faint smudgy streak. From a dark site, it fared just a little better but not a whole lot. My 10" resolves it better showing a very bright core, the dust lane and the disc to the other side. Again... different nights will yield different results. One night it was so good, I didn't recognise it! :eyepop:
This galaxy takes high magnification well, so use your 10mm eyepiece.

Virgo is very low at the moment. I doubt very much if you'll get much views out of the other galaxies in Virgo. You may have some chance with M104. I've caught it successfully at 30 degrees in the 6".
My 4" dob still manages to show it up but just as a very faint fuzzy spot.

With Centaurus A, use high magnification there too 10mm).
But again, this is going to be very faint. Even in my 10" it's quite faint. But on good nights I can see the thick black dust lane thru the middle.

M77 in Cetus is one of my favourites and ridiculously easy to find sitting within a degree of- memory blank, forget the star! But you'll work it out.
Now there's a face on spiral that's a good performer. Nice bright core too. The surface brightness of face on spirals are spread out so they can appear quite dim as compared to a spindle galaxy such as M104. But you'll need to wait say a month or so for it to get higher in the sky.

I have a lot more success with viewing objects to some extent in detail if I stick with deep sky objects (DSOs) around magnitude 10. This doesn't include stars. Certainly by all means give them a go. I just don't seem to get anyway with anything mag. 12 DSO wise. From light pollution anyway.

Observe DSOs when the moon is out the way as it brightens the sky too much.

Also throw M57 the ring nebula in Lyra on your list. This also takes high power well.

Loads of stuff in Scorpius and Sagittarius to be seen at the moment. These are on my winter observing list which you've seen. Observe them to the max and study all those nebulae & globular clusters really well- this will get you well trained for when its galaxy observing time. You will get better at picking out faint fuzzies in time, so I suggest perhaps you do your homework in this area as there's such an abundance of objects there, it will keep you busy for some time. When observing globular clusters (GCs) you are looking for granulation. This is called resolving them. Where do you see the granulation- on the edges or can you resolve it to the core. Look at it, turn away and look again. The eyes get excited by doing this method and will give you more detail than just staring at it constantly. Learn the art of averted vision too, but this is all explained in the first link below.

Sculptor is rising at the moment, some nice galaxies there too worth having a look at. Particularly The Silver Coin (NGC 253). It's huge and you will need your 25mm eyepiece to get it all within the fov. It'll appear as a faint and long streak.

I highly recommend the book, "Collins Stars & Planets" which keep objects to attainable viewing esp. for a 6". The maps are very easy to read, and on the facing page is a full description of all the objects.
I've done a wee review of it here in the following link, but while you're at it have a read of my posts #13 thru to #15 as I've listed a lot of helpful tips.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=841635#post841635


These binocular objects will look great thru your 6", tho not all will be in the sky right now. But keep the list handy. See posts #1 and further list in #11. Don't just think because they're bino objects they're too boring for a scope- I observe a lot of bino objects in my 10" and get real satisfaction from them as I can see so much! :lol:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75871&highlight=Centaurus

And to end it off, I'll give you one dead easy to find galaxy which is visible now. I haven't viewed this thru a 6", but it's a very easy find in my 10" so I'll be interested to see how you go. It's NGC 5102 in Centaurus. It sits within one degree below the bright star iota Centauri. So point your scope on iota and gently hover around a bit- it's the closest object next to that star. Look for a smudgy spot with a brightish core. Perhaps you can make out some faint extensions either side.

Tell your dad if he wants one amazingly fantastic object to view right now to point his scope at Omega Centauri globular cluster (NGC 5139). It's the biggest and brightest glob in the sky.

Have fun you guys!