AP Beginner setup requirements.

[RussellH]

Hi All,

TL;DR - looking for advice on a good beginner AP setup $1000 - $2000.

The long version:

I've been a keen, but mainly armchair, astronomy, since I was a kid. I love all aspects of astronomy, but when it comes to observing first-hand, I like things to be easy to setup, and easy to observe.

I purchased a 200mm x 1200mm GSO Dobsonian Reflector in 2005 from Andrews Communication (basically this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dobson-mount.jpg). Was living in Brisbane at the time. We moved to a rural area in 2007, so I have good viewing now. I have probably only used it about 1-2 dozen times due to 1) difficulty in moving, 2) difficulty in locating sky objects with the all-manual alignment 3) Difficulty in staying aligned on objects while the rest of the family looks 4) Freezing to death at the best viewing times :)

I'm now in the situation where I would like to get back into viewing, and more particularly, want to do some good quality astrophotography, and, as I am a software developer, use the images in some apps I am making.

So, I'm looking for advice on whether it's possible to get a decent AP setup for $1,000 - $2,000. I've read several of the articles (although being a couple years old, I'm not sure if they are still current given technology advances) and advice on AP setups, which seem to suggest an 80 - 100mm reflector as the place to start. I have a Canon EOS450D, but given it does not do video, I'm not sure if it is sufficient, given registax seems recommended, but requires video from what I can tell.

My requirements are :-

1. Relative ease of portability, and use on uneven ground.
2. Auto scope control and tracking, preferably via an iphone/ipad using Sky Safari 3 Pro
3. Camera mountable
4. Priority on AP type: 1) Wide Field/Lunar 2) DSO 3) Planetary

I'm willing to build up a system over time, and I'm thinking the mount is the most important part for me, as even just being able to do wide field with a mount controlling my DSLR, would be a good first step.

The Skywire cable connector for the Sky Safari software chart here http://www.southernstars.com/products/skywire/index.html shows some compatible scopes, but as long is has an RS232 interface, it seems fine.

Browsing around some of the retail sites, it seems hard to find a mount that is built for an external interface, without having all its own bells and whistles controller attached. I'd think if you could get a bare system that just has the brains and interface without the extras, it should be cheaper, but I guess manufacturers want to sell "complete" solutions.

Does anyone have any references that might help me decipher mounts? Seem there's lots on the scopes, but I haven't found a lot on buying a mount yet, and that really seems more important, as it's probably easier to replace a scope than a mount down the track.

Any pointers in the right direction on current advice regarding AP setups for beginners, mount selection, interfacing with Sky Safari, and a scope thats easy to interface with a DSLR, would be appreciated. In the mean time, I'l continue to read articles and check other beginners questions.

Thanks.
Russell.

[ZeroID]

Hi Russell, :welcome: back to the madhouse.
I think you mean 80-100mm REFRACTOR, not reflector in your post. This seems to be the beast of choice for AP. Apochromatic as well to get around the coloured edges etc.
I'm using a 90mm Lunt Doublet on an EQ6 with my DSLR ( SONY SLT A77 v) and starting to get some ok results after many trials and tribulations.
I've got the EQ6 only because it also can carry my 10" Newt.

Your options start with Polarie or Astrotracker which are just small devices for carrying a DSLR for widefeild. Limited weight carrying but some amazing pix have come from them. You can put that together for around $400 or so if you use an existing photo tripod.

Next up is the ubiquitous 80mm APO with a DSLR on the back, usually Canon. Works for larger objects, nebula, globs etc.
That can be enhanced by the use of specialised Astrocameras for other requirements.
An EQ5 would be the minimum recommended mount partially for the weight and and stabilty required for longer focal length and heavier hardware on top.
You can also do all ths with a 80-100mm Non APO scope as long as you are prepared to put some processing work into the fringes that may arise.

Planetary requires some slightly different hardware and steup. Long focal length scopes and movie capable cameras to collect lots of frames to be stacked to get the quality of image you desire.

I'm no expert, others will no doubt add their comments but I'd be suggesting the 80mm f5(Preferably APO), EQ5, DSLR as the best starting option for your stated requirements.

Cheers

Brent (Russell) :thumbsup:

[rogerco]

Your budget is a little limited if you also want to buy a new DSLR, you should put as much as you can into a mount, rather than the EQ5 go for a an EQ6 pro and then you can consider modifying your existing telescope. Get a ED80 and get a video camera such as the Orion or Celestron solar system cameras to do the video that your current DSLR cannot do, they start at $160 or so, the 5mpixel Celestron Neximage 5 can be picked up on the internet for $260 (rr $500). You should have a bit of change out of $2000 to get a camera adapter for the 450D to get started on deep space stuff.

[RussellH]

Thanks guys. Oops yes, I meant a refractor. My budget was sans DSLR. Since I posted, I've been pondering my options in that department, and wondered whether a dedicate astro imager would be better than trying to hook up the DSLR. Doesn't help when I went to charge my EOS battery last night, and can't find the charger!

The Skywatcher Black Damond ED80 @ 80mm x 600mm seems to be the starter, but is the ED100 @ 100mm x 900mm going to give substantially better results?

[RobF]

Hi Russell

Have you seen this?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=108704

Perhaps check its a HEQ5Pro first, but pretty good deal for a starting mount and scope.

[RussellH]

Hey Rob,

No I hadn't started looking at used gear yet. Yah I definitely need the Pro mount. i'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

Russell.

[RussellH]

Amazing how life sometimes makes decisions for you. Just found out today my son may need $3,000 worth of dental work, so it looks like my AP adventures are on hold for now.

Thanks for the help. It was fun while it lasted.

[RobF]

What about coming up to Qld Astrofest for a weekend of looking at (and through) other people's gear? There is no end of people happy to let you look through their scopes or talk about their photographic gear.

The only downsides can be the cold, and burning sensation in your hip pocket when you see something you "have to have" :)

http://www.qldastrofest.org.au/

[sil]

Not just a response to the original post but general advice for so many wanting to get into astrophotography:


I'd suggest stop looking at buying any equipment and use what you have instead. Just like buying a DSLR doesn't make you a photographer, buying all the scopes & mounts won't magically take the photos you expect (and I guarantee at this point whatever you buy won't meet your expectations).

You can take great photos of the sun (using a baader filter, make your own for $30) or the moon handheld with any camera. On a camera tripod you can capture stunning shots of Eta Carina and Orion nebulae, along with wide field views of the milky way.

The key is processing. Having used photoshop doesn't really help either. You need much finer control and find a workflow (several workflows really) to take the images you have and tease out as much signal as possible from them. There is no software package that does it all for you, so you need an understanding of what software tool to use, when and how. Jumping between tools as the need arrises.

As a simple starting point take a dozen handheld shots of the moon (you do know how to use the camera right?) saving to RAW not jpeg formats. Process the RAW to TIFF (16bit). Download PIPP (free) and process the shots centering (pre-aligning) the moon to a cropped TIFF. Load those into Registax (free) and fine tune the alignment, stack and learn how to use the wavelets to tease out finer details.

What most people fail to realise is a camera lens is a refractor scope already. Photographing deep through a scope is not as simple as attaching a camera, pressing the button and there you have a finished photo. Be prepared to end up taking hours to process a single image. If you learn the processes and software first you'll understand better the limitations of your current equipment and your own skills/patience. You may find you need a new computer (certainly more storage space) or you just don't have the time or aptitude to deal with processing all the data properly (and over time you'll learn new techniques and want to go back over earlier data to re-process it better).

You're budget isn't going to get you much in the way of quality imaging cameras and scopes. But you can get some great pics with a smaller budget and get a refractor on a AltAz GOTO mount and a ZWO ASI120MC camera for under $1k. That will get you going on capturing planets. You'll need something that can record the video footage efficiently (without dropping frames) and expect to be capturing 100fps and ending up with 12GB+ files for only a couple of minutes footage to process. And you only need a couple of minutes capture for planetary anyway due to the planet rotation. This is a simple and easy setup to use, only a couple of minutes of lightweight equipment you can setup anywhere. The GOTO refractor will also be a great visual scope to use and later on if you decide to pursue AP further it'll be a useful scope to look through while another scope is capturing.

Basically, I'd say LEARN first with what you have before you spend on gear you don't understand or need yet.

[ZeroID]

+1 to Sils posting above, .. for sure !!

And you're going to need the new computer ..... I did.

[The Mekon]

Another +1 for Sil's post. This is exactly the situation I faced. I got keen on the idea of digital astrophotography about three years ago. Bought fancy Canon camera, have fast Apo refractor and two great mounts, but I just don't have the drive to pick up on the computer processing of the image. I want it to be on the memory chip or wherever. I have no great desire to sit and process an image for hours on end.
Still doing (and enjoying) visual astronomy!