eq8 is here

[coldknights]

EQ8 $5299.00



http://www.bintel.com.au/Mounts---Tripods/EQ-Mounts/SkyWatcher-EQ8/1445/productview.aspx

[dancingononeleg]

Our club is building an observatory and will soon be setting up an EQ8. We are currently designing a pier for it using donated and "found" materials. One of the questions we have concerns the acceptable diameter of the top plate - the one that the EQ8 will attach to. The pier diameter will probably be 9" and the current design shows that the top plate will be the same, this is 2" greater than the standard tripod top plate diameter (7"). Will this extra inch restrict our ability to slew to the zenith or past the meridian?
Thanks
Michael

[AstroJunk]

Yes, but in all likelyhood, not enough to worry about. More of a problem if you are mounting an SCT rather than a newtonian/refractor, that latter would tend to strike the pier before the flange.

And if it is an issue, its nothing that an angle grinder can't sort out :)

[h0ughy]

now on to more pressing matters – the eq8!!!!!!! simply saying this - IT IS BLOODY UNREAL!!!

First night – rms of 0.02 – this was witnessed by several people and was guiding at f6.3 through the c11 I was using. the Weeks average was 0.06 – 0.11 with the exception for Thursday as the seeing week pear shape for a short while and the rms was 0.33 guiding through a 60mm guidescope and a lodestar

simply put we worked out the two star alignment procedure and then adjusted the offset to find the SCP – two iterations for me and it was done – I never touched it for the rest of the week. But – and there is a big but – I hate the pier – its a mongrel to setup and level – but in saying that its very stable.


I will wright up more later but in a nutshell it goes to object very very well from a 1 star alignment. absolutely no backlash, however I do think that there is a bug in the 3.35 version of the software - those that had that on eq6's alt eq6 and the other eq8 had the same bug - a jump in the tracking at a regular interval

[jcm]

I assume if you use EQMOD (miss out the hand controller completely) the jump in tracking should not be a problem.

John

[h0ughy]

dont know - yet to test that? I am not familiar with eqmod so it would be a steep learning curve

[Germ]

I have started using my EQ8 and have also noticed the sudden jump on the RA. This only happens using the Hand controller it doesn't seem to do it with EQMOD.

[AstroJunk]

The Pier is in!

Its a beaut :)

[h0ughy]

does look good

[DavidTrap]

Cable management looks just like Houghy's!

DT

[h0ughy]

well that could be taken badly:P

[AstroJunk]

It's lucky that the EQ8 slews in a tidy way - it always lifts its bum in the air first to avoid snagging :rofl:

[h0ughy]

ok might not have been exactly polar aligned but - look at the graph and the data, there is a clear spike created - why? Aparently those using EQmod didn t have these issues. V3.35 of hand controller. here is a sample

Analysis covers 11:48 PM to 12:15 AM
Guiding errors





Guider px
Arcsecs
Image px

RA peak error
10.46
69.25
48.31

RA RMS error
0.65
4.32
3.01

DEC peak error
1.01
6.69
4.66

DEC RMS error
0.14
0.96
0.67

Combined peak error
10.50
69.49
48.47

Combined RMS error
0.67
4.42
3.09




Correction drive analysis





RA
DEC

Frames with correction
13.9%
30.0%

Corrections at max
0.0%
0.0%

Average percent of max corr.
4.9%
8.8%



Periodic errors in RA




Top 5 periodic components in RA error, showing period & amplitude. Amplitude is relative to the DC offset.






Guider px
Arcsecs
Image px

DC offset
-0.00
-0.01
-0.01

6.57 seconds
0.08
0.54
0.38

3.6 minutes
0.08
0.53
0.37

5.00 seconds
0.08
0.51
0.36

5.12 seconds
0.08
0.51
0.36

7.06 seconds
0.08
0.51
0.36


Drift estimate





Guider px
Arcsecs
Image px

DEC drift / minute
0.52
3.43
2.39

Std error of drift mean
0.10
0.67
0.47


Estimated polar-alignment error: 18.54 arcmins, based on specified guide-star declination of 45º. Experimental estimate for non-drift-check events.

Field rotation




Estimated maximum field-rotation per minute at farthest edge of imaging field for various guider-to-imager alignment offsets in multiples of imager FOV. Guidestar-to-edge angles in arcmins.





Alignment
Guidestar-edge ∆
Image px

Concentric:
81.9
0.11

Offset 0.5 FOV:
131.7
0.18

Offset 1 FOV:
181.4
0.25

Offset 1.5 FOV:
231.1
0.32

[AndrewJ]

Gday Houghy

Whilst i have no experience with the EQ8 mount/hbx etc
what you are seeing there is exactly what we have been looking at
recently with LX200GPS scopes in polar.
I dont know if you have ever played with an LX200 GPS in polar
and manually operated the DEC slomo ( do it carefully ;) and with a very light grip ). The scope knows where it "should" be pointing, and if it gets too far off track, it arbitrarily returns to that spot, and it does it very rapidly.

We havent fully tracked it down but we do know several things can happen.
First guess is something is going on where the scope keeps 2 ideas of where it is pointing. Your scope is drifting in DEC and at some point, the system may say, whoops, too far off target, and then just arbitrarily slews back, which invokes backlash application which creates a jump???
Just a thought

Andrew

[h0ughy]

not a bad thought:thanx:

[AndrewJ]

Gday Houghy

Just found one plot of what we see.
The green is the internal "float" value that the scope uses when reversing.
Ie whilst in that region, the encoders move but the "axle" position doesnt change.
The blue plot is the raw encoder count.
You will see that when guiding, every now and then it gets too far off position and violently reverses. Even after the lash is fully accounted for, It then keeps going in the opposite direction for a while then swings back again, almost like it is getting confused as to where its really pointing when being guided.

Andrew

[jcm]

There is now an update to the motor controller firmware to solve the problem of the "spikes" during guiding. ( Sky Watcher downloads section)

Yahoo Groups "SkywatcherEQ8" also has the updates in the files section.

Changes made in the EQ8 motor controller firmware version 2.09:
1. Fixed a bug which might cause random spikes during autoguiding via the autoguider port.
2. By default, use full torque to drive the mount when the motor slews in low speed.
3. Provide the ability to allow the user to choose driving torque in low speed; this feature will be availiable in the next SynScan hand control firmware release.
We would like to thank Hamish Thava from Australia who reported the problem and helped us to test this version of firmware.

John

[h0ughy]

so just a question - are we better off waiting for the 3.35plus a bit firmware update for that?

[Tandum]

Just another reason to use eqmod.

They certainly don't seem to want to thank them :question:

[jcm]

There may be a problem with this update.( motor controller )
Posted on Yahoo SkywatcherEQ8 group:-

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SkywatcherEQ8/message/94


John

[Germ]

I have updated the MC and yes the Ra motor is a little loader but not while tracking. More of a concern is the random jumps while guiding this has not been resolved. I have used EQMOD which doesn't seem to have this problem but can not seem to get the pointing accuracy as close as the hand controller any ideas.

[jcm]

Skywatcher have released another update for the motor controller firmware.

From skywatcher:-

EQ8 motor controller firmware version 2.09_LP works the same as version 2.09 except that, by default, it uses half torque to drive the motor during low speed slewing. It is released for EQ8 users who prefer lower power consuming and quiter tracking. With this version of firmware, the user can choose full or half torque driving mode in our next SynScan hand cotnrol firmware release. We would like to thank Hamish Thava from Australia who helped us to test this version of firmware.

http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads.php


John

[orion69]

Didn't quite understood, do you guide with guidescope or you are using OAG?

[h0ughy]

setting up was through the c11 then when imaging it was through a 60mm guidescope using a lodestar guide camera using PHD

[jcm]

Tommy Nawratil, who works for the Austrian firm that received the first EQ8 in Europe, asked me to post the message below.

One user reports he gets the spike problem using Lodestar, but using the MGEN autoguider the problem does not occur. We sent him the guider simply to test another ST4 signal source. One other case with a different mount (not EQ8), has a similar problem using Lodestar, and again with MGEN it has vanished. There the ST4 reaction is triggered by Lodestar, but hangs and does not stop when the pulse is off.

So, I would suggest the bug may be connected somehow to the ST4 guide signals. We know for example, that Losmandy mounts using the standard handbox need extremely strong opto couplers, that are able to provide the needed pull down, otherwise the mount simply does not react. Also, they cannot react on pulses in RA and DEC coming simultaneously, they need a delay in between. So, ST4 is not exact enough a description.

Those having the bug should therefore not only provide diagrams, but also note the exact gear they use to obtain that diagrams. Maybe that could lead to a conclusion.

regards, Tommy

[h0ughy]

i did not use the lodestar directly for the guiding but through a GPUSB, so there fore i was not using the optio coupling device in the lodestar but was utilising PHD and the GPUSB

[acropolite]

I don't believe the problem is with the Lodestar, I was seeing the same problems as h0ughy on at least a couple of occasions at the same time but on my AZ-EQ6 (running Synscan V3.35). My guiding setup was PHD and Orion starshoot autoguider. At least twice I heard the h0ugh cursing in the dark, only to look at my own PHD plot to see it too had completely lost sync. My setup was PHD directly to the SSAG via USB, the Az-EQ6 mount was on battery/charger power and the Laptop mains, h0ughy I believe was using a UPS on all his gear. FWIW the SSAG image showed considerable noise when slewing, indicating that noise was coming back via the guide port. Switching to a twisted pair guide cable minimised but didn't eliminate that anomoly.

I still haven't ruled out polar alignment problems as I had corrected my manual alignment using the Syncan polar alignment method and I'm not convinced that the sysncan polar alignment routine is/was accurate.

[jcm]

Thanks for your replies. I do hope the "spikes" have nothing to do with the Lodestar autoguider as I have two of them and they have been working perfectly when connected to an EQ6 mount.

John

[acropolite]

Can't find it now but I thought I saw a post somewhere suggesting that the Synscan software may have been reacting to discrepancies between the encoder values and the mount's position calculation, maybe there is no correlation but it wouldn't hurt to do some runs with the encoders turned off. I know for all my imaging sessions the encoders were turned on. When I get back and have some time I'll run both with encoders on and off and see if there's any difference.

@ h0ughy, did you have encoders on or off?? (I think on is default unless turned to off)

[h0ughy]

the controller was just about as setup from scratch, so if the default was off then it was off;)

[Shiraz]

If switching off the encoders does not help, might be worth trying running the mount normally and then disconnecting the ST4 for at least 2 worm cycles (about 10 minutes maybe) with it still running - if the software does not throw a fit at losing the connection, there is an outside chance that this could fix the offset spikes once you reconnect. I don't have an EQ8 to try it out

[acropolite]

Then I believe your encoders may have been on as were mine. Might not hurt to check next time you power the beast up.

[h0ughy]

that may be a while (titan in the observatory) ;) but will have to do something soon.

[jcm]

This has just been posted on the EQ8 Yahoo Group:-

hi,


"To users getting spikes in autoguiding - Synta now confirmed: If using Lodestar and MaximDL for autoguiding, you should set the minimum autoguiding pulse duration in MaximDL to 20ms or similar. Lodestar sometimes sends ultrashort pulses, like 3ms or even shorter, that may cause the ST4 port to hang. Also, if you do not use the ST4 port, but pulse guiding via EQMOD or similar devices, there should be no problem. Here are some pics Hamish Tava posted after solving the bug:

http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/05_service/06_gallery_detail.php?sid=8044

http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/05_service/06_gallery_detail.php?sid=8039


They will keep an eye on that issue and come up with an update.


Tommy"

John

[h0ughy]

thats fine if you were using that setup but mine was not using maximdl it was using plain old phd with a lodestar for the camera?
It's a st4 problem and the mounts programming:question::shrug:

[acropolite]

Same here but using PHD and SSAG and on Az-eq6....

[h0ughy]

i sent an email off to skywatcher asking what is happening - will post up if i ever get a response

[acropolite]

Just to add a little to the confusion, Andrew was also using an Az-Eq6 unguided, I believe he was getting intermittent jumps as well. Andrew had attributed his jumps to movement of elements in his IS lens, the one thing that would have been common to all 3 cases is that Encoders would have been on.

[h0ughy]

the response - nothing new here as discussed previously - but i dont think this is good enough:

Dear David,


Thank you for choosing Sky-Watcher. Here is a link to the controller firmware that should be able to help with the problem.


http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads.php?cat=3

Please follow the link to download "EQ8 MOTOR CONTROLLER FIRMWARE UPDATE (V2.09)". Thank you.

[rustigsmed]

Hmmm, are you already using that firmware version?

[h0ughy]

:thumbsup: yep:question:

[h0ughy]

has anyone made a adapter plate for a pier - not reusing the one off the mount

[multiweb]

Yeah, you can buy an offcut from a round aluminium bar. Dirt cheap. . I got a 200mm diameter by 100mm thick. Drilled the center and tapped to bolt the head and 3 holes at 120 degrees for the levelling on the pier.

[rustigsmed]

Hmmm, maybe write back to explain that it already was :shrug:

i've decided to investigate EQMOD ...

[Ryderscope]

I am pleased to announce that I am now the very proud owner of an EQ8 which has seen first light this weekend. Much fun was had by all. I want to thank all of the contributers to this forum for the excellent advice and tips, particularly with the balance issue which I found very soon during the process of setting up the mount. My day (night) was saved with the post and photo by Peter on 26 June which showed the additional bar attached to the mounting points for the optional polar scope.

My answer to the balance issue was to to use some spare Losmandy "C" style dovetail parts that I had lurking about in my spare bits and pieces (see attached photos). Only needed some drilling, spare hex bolts and a couple of washers and all was fine. And yes - that is a spare Losmandy 7 lb weight that I am using. The supplied 10Kg weight was just a little too heavy for my set up.

It is a times like this that one appreciates the value of these forums and the exchange of tips and ideas.

Thanks again all and clear skies.

[Merlin66]

Rodney,
Looks like you found a good work around solution....
I suppose if this is a common problem it won't be long before some 3rd party supplier comes up with an elegant (but expensive!) fix.

[Ryderscope]

Hmmm, maybe a business opportunity perhaps? Surprising that JMI hasn't got one already! Actually thinking about it, if I look at the original purchase prices of the long C style bar, short C style bar and C style mount head that I am using, the $ would be adding up quite considerably.

[AstroJunk]

My prefered solution would have been to buy a bigger scope :lol:

[Ryderscope]

How well you have read my mind .....the good thing about this mount is that allows plenty of room for future growth.

[m701f3]

I am thinking about ordering an EQ8 mount and I want to select as a guide camera using ASCOM pulse guiding. The proposed setup is a camera feeding data to PHD through the 'telescope" setting, and PHD sending its data to EQASCOM which will modify its PEC corrections to the EQ8 mount. I specifically want to avoid the use of the ST-4 system directly to the mount as this will result in two sets of instruction going to the mount one being PEC adjusted instructions from EQASCOM (EQMOD) and the other being the ST-4 auto guide instructions.

Can anyone suggest the camera best suited to this job and what cabling would be necessary?
Thanks in anticipation,
Frank :help:

[Merlin66]

Frank,
Whether or not you use ASCOM pulse or ST-4 direct you will always have separate guide commands issued to the mount.....
ASCOM pulse pre-supposes you will be using EQMod rather than the Synscan handcontroller...
I use EQMod but also use ST-4/ PHD guiding on a NEQ6pro with my Lodestar camera.
No issues, no drama.....

[m701f3]

Ken,
Thanks for the response. I have been guided by the EQASCOM & AutoGuiding pdf published by EQMOD. The very last paragraph of which reads "For those using the EQMOD EASCOM driver the good news is that the Pulse Guiding implementation has been carefully designed to work alongside PEC. I would not however advise the use of PEC with ST-4 guiding for the Synta mounts."

Because of this I decided to use pulse guiding only with connection from the computer to the mount via Shoestring USB2-EQ5 cable.
Is the Lodestar capable of USB input/output from camera to computer and then to mount via EQMOD or is it ST-4 only via the auto guide port?:)
Cheers,
Frank

[Merlin66]

As I understand it, any guide camera with a USB connection can be used. Your guiding software has to be set up to suit the EQAscom.

Cameras like the Lodestar have the "optional" ST-4 port, which could be ignored.
I don't use the Pulse guiding but I'm sure many EQMod users do.

[m701f3]

Ken,
Yes, thanks for the information. I was getting confused because the Lodestar website says the USB port as "input" which made me think it was for power supply only. I shot off an r-mail to them last night and they informed me that the USB port is bi-directional and so the USB and ST-4 can be used as two different guiding systems. I see it now.:)

[Grimmeister]

Hi Everyone,

Just picked up my new EQ8 mount yesterday :D. My thanks go to Peter at AstroPete's (http://www.astropetes.com.au/) for making my long time dream of getting one of these mounts come true :). Now to wait for the clouds to clear so I can have a play.

Also thanks to the early adopters here in IIS for their constant feedback and updates on events and the performance of this mount.

Cheers

Anthony

[h0ughy]

so have you managed to have a good play with it?

[Star Hunter]

[QUOTE=Grimmeister;1026132]Hi Everyone,

Just picked up my new EQ8 mount yesterday :D. My thanks go to Peter at AstroPete's (http://www.astropetes.com.au/) for making my long time dream of getting one of these mounts come true :). Now to wait for the clouds to clear so I can have a play.

You will love this mount. I have one too! BTW, you paid too much for that mount. FYI, the Maidenwell Observatory is an agent for SW, Bresser and IOptron equipment.

[Grimmeister]

I am not so sure about that as you assume I paid RRP for it and you do not know any other considerations in the purchase price/agreement :shrug:. But that's between myself and Peter.

Good to know Maidenwell Observatory is an agent as it is good to have options when shopping, however Peter is a top notch bloke and looks after his customers so he has my dedicated business as my first point of contact for all things astronomy. :thumbsup:

Cheers

Anthony

[Grimmeister]

Hi David,

Yep got out last weekend and wow these things are great to use. :eyepop:the guiding graph is soooooo smooth.

Very happy camper indeed. I do have a small concern over the declination axis that I am exploring as it feels a bit loose. When I spoke with the Australian Distributor they eluded to a known problem but am awaiting some more details. I don't want to speculate till I have all the information at hand.

As an aside it didn't seem to impact the final product when imaging so it may be a nothing issue in the end.

Cheers

Anthony

[h0ughy]

any more news on your dec axis?

[Grimmeister]

Hi David,

Not as yet, I have been in regular touch with Tasco and am stepping through the troubleshooting process. I had an email sent back to me today and once I am home and had a chance to digest I will post up here for reference.

Cheers

Anthony

[h0ughy]

fair enough:thumbsup:

[acropolite]

Just noticed on the SW site that there is new motor controller firmware to fix the spike during autoguiding problem. I have the latest handbox firmware but not updated motor controller.
I'll be doing mine @ the weekend.
http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads.php?cat=4

[Grimmeister]

Hi Everyone,

Looking for people thoughts on this response to my EQ8 Declination Issue, I can tell there is a definite issue in this axis and I have found some other people around the globe with the very same problem.

Anyway this is what was recommended to Sky Watcher to fix my Declination issues. Not really sure if this is an actual solution however?? or if I am just being too fussy??

The motor controller of the EQ8 mount does not support backlash compensation, but the customer does not need to worry about it when he autoguides the mount.

The reasons are:
1. For a good polar alignnment, the driftment in declination is small.
2. Even the guide star does drift due to less perfect polar alighment, change of refraction or system flexure; generally, the drift is slow and in single direction; in this case, you do not want the autoguider to change the guiding signal’s polarity frequently.

We recommend the customer to turn off the backlash compensation function of the autoguider and configure the autoguider to ignor very small driftment in Dec axis(or be less sensitive to it). This will help reduce the autoguiding bounce in Dec axis, in most case, caused by atmosphere turbulance.

Thanks for your thoughts on this

Cheers

Anthony

[WingnutR32]

I cannot provide any thoughts to SkyWatchers reply, Anthony, however I am interested to hear how you are getting on with the issue?

I note that your blog hasn't been updated since the 16th, so not sure if you have had any more chances of clear night use.

[m701f3]

Hi Everyone,

I just picked up my new EQ8 today from Bintel in Melbourne but guess what? It’s raining. Anyway I hope the EQ8 turns out to be as good as it looks on paper. I will be mounting a C14 and C5 on it along with a guide scope and provision for a piggyback modified 5D MkII DSLR. Since the scopes were originally on fork mounts the C14 had to undergo some pretty major surgery to accept 3 Losmandy C14 dovetail plates. One serves as the primary mount, one to carry the C5 in piggyback and the DSLR mount and another for the guide scope. I took the opportunity to completely overhaul the OTA’s, covering all internal non-sliding, non optical surfaces with flocking material and adding socket head adjusting screws for the corrector plates, four for the C14 and three for the C5.
A Starizona Hyperstar lens and feather-touch focusing system is on the way from the US and after final conversion the system will be able to work at F1.9, F5.9, F10 and F11.
Hoping to get it all up and running in the next week or two.:)

[h0ughy]

congratulations looks like you have a big project ahead

[m701f3]

If your concern is a loose Dec axis as a result of excessive backlash, then the following may help.
After picking up my own EQ8 yesterday, I had a look at the Dec axis drive on a friend's unit. The worm is mounted in a separate block to the worm wheel support and is driven through a flexible coupling by the stepper motor. This block is mounted from the underside of the Dec axis stepper motor drive and being separate to the worm wheel mount the backlash can be adjusted by moving the relative positions of the worm wheel and worm. Moving the worm towards the worm wheel (reducing backlash) or away from the worm wheel (increasing the backlash). You would have to test the drive by doing at least one full revolution of the worm wheel checking the backlash at every tooth with feeler gauges or dial indicator and making any adjustments at the tightest spot where there is the least backlash. To do it at any other point may result in binding of the worm and worm wheel and overloading the drive motor.
Taking the Dec axis drive apart may void your warranty, but if Tasco don't fix the problem it may be your only solution. I would have to warn you that if you do not feel competent in making mechanical adjustments and checking the backlash with feeler gauges or dial indicator then don't touch it. If you decide to go down this path there are plenty of people around who would be able to make the adjustments. But this would be a last resort if Tasco do not come up with the goods.
Hope this helps.
Good luck:)

[Grimmeister]

Hi Everyone,

Haven't had a chance to use the mount since last new moon so no updates as yet, I will be trying the recommendations from Tasco to see fi I can improve things a bit more. I do fear it will need adjusting but this weekends new moon (if the rain stops) will be the decider I think.

I am not prepared to touch the mount unless Tasco say in writing that it is OK to do so as I do not want to void the warranty on it.

It is worth noting that while the Dec axis may have some play in it I believe I can compensate for it as per some instructions by Tasco, once I have confirmed this over the weekend I will post up the details.

I will post back here when I get back after the weekend.

Cheers

Anthony

[Star Hunter]

Has anyone heard on the rumor vine of the EQ8 being sold without tripod and pier? Seems it's happening over in the UK. Not sure if it will happen here just yet, but my inside sources say in could be as early as Feb/Mar next year. That being so, the price will be much lower too. Also, when the new Synscan firmware comes out early next year as well, it will have some exciting new features to make you smile and enjoy...:eyepop:

[rustigsmed]

any firmware rumours you'd like to start :D
i thought the prices were more expensive in the UK/euro even though it was just the head ... but i could be wrong!!

[coldknights]

New firmware on their site ! 3.35 I think and maybe a new 1 but you would have to look.

[Grimmeister]

Hi Everyone,

OK so a bit of an update on my EQ8, I have managed to "work around" the declination issue I had by making sure the worm gear mesh is in the right spot for my imaging target it's a bit more fiddling on set up but otherwise easy enough to manage and fixes the problem fully.

I did however have a big issue last weekend with the RA gear binding up near the meridian :confused2::mad2::sadeyes:. I was a bit dismayed when it happened and was quickly followed but a large chunk of expletives.......

I followed up with Tasco on my return home from a warranty view point as during the heat of the moment on the evening I was imaging I determined it was going back to be replaced. However, I have since calmed down and I have had a chat to Rob at Tasco about the issue. He has been great during the whole process and consulted the engineers in Canada for some guidance on the issue. There was no question where the problem was and that the mount needed an adjustment.

Initially I was asked to send this back for repairs however given it's size and weight and after speaking with Rob about it and my employment history (mechanical technician in the Defence Force and having had years of experience in adjusting equipment of similar nature) I have been given instructions on how to adjust the worm gear mesh and assurance I will not void my warranty in doing so.

After an initial review of the details this looks a pretty straight forward procedure and I will do this ASAP and retest (probably next weekend).

Some interesting feedback and a real credit to Sky Watcher is all the issues that do get reported are taken back to the factory and reviewed to ensure future mounts are improved where needed as can be seen in some of the early changes to the EQ8's, sometimes manufacturers don't always get it right the first time but Sky Watcher are dead set keen to make sure they keep improving things as they go.


Anyway I will update once I have had a chance to adjust and will let you know how it all goes.

Cheers

Anthony

[Ryderscope]

I am reusing a pier that was carrying my Losmandy GM8 and needed an adapter plate to carry the EQ8. By scouring this forum and others I collected sufficient information to complete the attached drawing which might be a useful resource for others. I had a local machine shop in Bathurst complete the work and took delivery of the pier today with the new adapter plate installed. All looks ok so far in that everything that is supposed to move does and everything that should not move does not.

For those interested in following the construction of the new home for the EQ8, a link to the observatory page on my Pbase site is here:

http://www.pbase.com/ryderscope/observatory_construction

Rodney W.

[h0ughy]

That's fantastic. It certainly looks the goods. How much for the making of the adapter plate? To use on my pier I would need it to be square;) as I have 4 bolts on my obseratory pier. Always wondered how eqmod would work in the observatory ? Like the rest of the pics on the site as well. Nice place for an observatory

[Ryderscope]

The cost for the adapter plate was $500. The pier itself was made by a local welding shop a couple of years back for $150. I have attached some pics of the pier with adapter plate.

[coldknights]

:xmas:Well Santa had troubles dropping this EQ8 Mount with his Seigh and said OH&S problems with the weight of the boxes gross weight on box 1 being 41kg second box 52kg and third and forth boxes 10kg gross weight each .
Rudolph now has 3 disc's out and out of action and Santa said go and pick it up yourself so we did and now have to wait for Xmas day to open.
Looking forward to using the new mount.
:xmas:

[h0ughy]

you must be excited given the shaken in the photo - congratulations!;):thumbsup:

[coldknights]

Hi David yes very excited after the long drive to Melbourne on the road for more than nine hours today !
so after we got the mount unloaded from the 4WD was a effort had to slide it down a wide plank of wood to get it out safely then onto a trolley.
Yes we are so excited to get the new mount and was a bit shaky from the sheer excitement .
Come on Xmas day hurry up !!!!
Gingle bells and all that Santa turn the clock forward till the 25th.

[batema]

Have a great Christmas. Not a bad present.

[coldknights]

Hi Mark will do thank you ! Yes not bad at all.
Have a nice Christmas as well .

[Tandum]

This is a issue with this mount, you can't ship it unless you put it on a pallet. I just sold mine and they would not carry it unless it was on a pallet. Problem is, you have to put that pallet on a truck at pick up with a forklift and the receiver has to take it off with a forklift. The courier just provides a truck. How many of you know how to wrap a pallet or have the tools to do it.

I was lucky, one of my regular customers sends stuff on pallets all the time and helped me out. They wrapped it and used their fork lift to load it.

I was quoted $132 each end to lift it on and put it down using a different type of truck. Very poor design for transport. I guess there is no OH&S in china yet.


What happens when it has to go for repair?

[Star Hunter]

Anthony,

I have an EQ8 which is only 2 months old and last night the whole Dec system seized. The noise sounded like either a bearing, the stepper motor had seized or the mesh was too tight between worm and wheel. Have left a message with Rob at TASCO as to what to do. Up till this period the EQ8 slewed perfectly but I guess nothing is perfect. Had Synta used better quality parts, the price would have double.

What caused yours to fail and was it serious? Did you need new parts?

cheers and have a happy Xmas.

James

[coldknights]

Hi has anyone got a tension Wrench can check the tension setting on the tripod bolts and also the mount to tripod bolts ?
Thanks in Advance

[Logieberra]

Saw Baz's new EQ8 the other night. They are a beautiful thing. So much metal! Very few plastic parts. They look like tremendous value for money.

[acropolite]

Decent quality bearings would likely only add at most a couple of hundred to the price, I'd pay that anytime.

[coldknights]

Well We unpacked the mount late last night and set it up ( was cooking most of the day ).
Read the Instruction manual and put one of the weights under the middle of tripod's Central post .

Shame the tripod did not come with a Case like the EQ8 mount did !

All went together well and tested the slewing of the mount and then retired to bed for the night.

We got up a bit earlier then normal and Made the Double ended RJ45 plug to go into the 4 Way Bluetooth Adaptor.

Took the hand controller out plugged in the 4way Bluetooth adaptor started the pc up with Eqmod told it the coms port number and connected straight away slewed around a bit using the arrow keys and then
Parked it with EQmod the started Stellarium scope up hit connect which brought up the EQmod window unparked it started Stellarium up and was going around slewing from target to target.

Overall we are pleased with the new mount ! :D Slews are very quiet and fingers x none of those dreaded noises comes from this Mount that others are Experiencing with their EQ8 mounts and hope SKyWatcher come up with the fix for their mounts soon.

[Grimmeister]

Hi James,

Sorry to hear the news, I haven't been under the stars since my last trip due to the weather here in SEQ :(, I really hope the end of Jan picks up a bit so I can head out for the new moon.

To answer your question, I was fortunate in there has been no damage (well that I can see any way). I have re-run the mount through a whole bunch of indoor tests since the issue and just cannot reproduce the issue :shrug:. As of this evening I have tracked (via software) 15 objects up to the meridian till the limit is reached and set it to auto park, each and everytime it just parks to home no issues like last time????

So to date I don't really know what happened and may never know, given the time of year it happened I highly doubt temperature had any role so maybe not as balanced as I thought I was??????

Anyway new moon weekend I am hoping to go out again and have a play, I am quite comfortable now with the declination side of things and had the mount running perfectly in that regards last time so provided the RA doesn't show the same issue it is all working a treat.

I hope your mount gets sorted quickly for you, Rob at Tasco has always been very helpful so I am sure he will get you back up and running quickly.

Cheers

Anthony

[coldknights]

Version 2.10 now ready to download

http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads.php?cat=3

Seems to be a little better! those hard braking noises are a little quieter now when slowing down when it is coming to a stop.:thumbsup:

[h0ughy]

good stuff - will have to do my hand controller soon

[gerhard_dangl]

Hello all,
in the meantime I could measure the dynamical current consumption of my EQ8 also with firmware V2.10.
The diagram and some comments are here:
http://www.dangl.at/ausruest/eq8/eq8_e3.htm

[ozstockman]

Hi guys,

I am trying to read all 30 pages now to find answers to my questions but it will take a while. If somebody is following this thread from the beginning would you mind answering a couple of questions.

1) are a bottom plate of this mount head and a thread that goes into the mount head the same as the ones used on an EQ6 Pro? I have a pier made for my Eq6 and I am wondering whether I can still use it with an EQ8 mount?

2) Has anybody been able to hook it with EQMOD either directly(without a HC) or through it? I can see the discussion about it on page 11 with someone mentioning difference in voltage and possible problems but I have not reached the point yet where it's been solved.

I am looking at this mount too and going back to astrophotography after almost 4 years pause. I would love to connect to the EQ8 the same way I was using my EQ6. I have used it with ASCOM-Bluetooth through serial port on the mount.

Since there is no serial port on the EQ8 I would need some adapters. It is not a problem to buy as long as this way of communication with the eq8 mount is possible.

[Grimmeister]

Hi Oz,

In answer to your questions, the EQ6 and EQ8 mounting arrangements are different so you will need a new mount plate.

Yes you can definitely hook up the mount direct with EQMod, same settings as the EQ5/EQ6 and works a treat.

Cheers

Anthony

[ozstockman]

Thank you Anthony. It seems I have had to read just a few posts further to get my question about the plate answered. It is mentioned on the same 11th page :-)

BTW, Orion has heir version of EQ8 listed on their website. I guess it is the same mount. The interesting thing though that they say that their mount should +-3 arcs tracking error without PEC

http://www.telescope.com/Mounts-Tripods/Equatorial-Mounts-Tripods/Orion-HDX110-EQ-G-GoTo-Equatorial-Mount-with-Tripod-Pier/c/2/sc/34/p/103015.uts

Skywatcher does not make such promises or at least I could not find anything about it on their website.

[14cge]

Hi all, has anyone updated from a CGE mount to the EQ8?
I can see it is a larger mount, but have you missed the CGE in any way?

[ozstockman]

Hi Roy,


A CGE Pro seems to be a great mount based on users' reviews I have read but the cheapest price for it in Australia I could find is AU$8000. You can get it cheaper from USA(around $6000 with shipping) but it is still more expensive than an EQ8.

[14cge]

Hi everyone, checked the voltage readout on the hand controller and it comes out with 19.8 v from a 12v car battery. What scared me the most was that I connected up a 15 v power supply first, as recommended by the manual and that came out at 25v. That's when I quickly turn off the unit and checked with 12 volt battery.
All voltages check with professional multimeter first from power supply before connecting.

Is the hand controller powered by different voltage from the mount?
Perhaps something is wrong for the power from the mount to the hand controller?
Is the hand controller power direct from the incoming power supply or transformer in the mount?

[coldknights]

Hi Roy ,
Have a read from the link below !

http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads.php?cat=20

Take the power cord off the mount and using a multimeter check the voltage at the pins that plug into the mount you should get around 12 to 13.5 v you should not get more than that with the car not running .

To do this test plug the power lead into the car cig lighter socket at the other end that goes into the mount use the multi meter to check the voltage on the 2 pins (you may need someone to hold the plug while you check the voltage on the plug pins).

But I think it may have something to do with the firmware as per the skywatcher website link above.

Have you got Firmware version 3.35 on your SynScan hand controller ?

[14cge]

Thanks Cathy, went out tonight with our group and tried another hand piece. All fine, it read correctly. Thanks for the link/fix.
kind regards
Roy:doh:

[orion69]

Has that spike problem when guiding with Lodestar using PHD2 been resolved using latest firmware?

Can't find confirmation for this...
My EQ8 arrives in 2-3 weeks.

[AstroShomy]

I am also interested in this...

[Ajemsa]

I have read a few of the previous posts about the declination issue (whether it be binding or too much backlash) and would like to get some opinions on what is acceptable for what I am trying to achieve.
My Eq8 has a drive gear that is slightly non-concentric giving me a tight spot and not-so-tight spot as I rotate the declination 360deg. I would like to image at 1500mm focal length using PHD and would like to know what level of backlash is acceptable or can be handled by the software. I am only starting to understand the Eq8 and PHD and so I don’t have much experience to know what is achievable. If the mount isn’t going to achieve the result I want I will obviously have to contact the supplier for a replacement.
Thanks,
Andrew

[orion69]

To answer my own question, my EQ8 came with latest motor firmware and PHD2 with Lodestar seams to be working fine.
This is 7x30 min:

http://www.astrobin.com/full/114292/0/?real=&mod=

(Best viewed in full resolution)

[AstroShomy]

Could you please copy the link to the high resolution image?

[orion69]

It should be OK now, sorry...

[AstroShomy]

Perfect result

[Shiraz]

another EQ8 result FWIW.

Has been a bit too windy to get a stable PE curve, but the RA was keeping quite tidily within a +- 2 arc sec band between gusts. The curve (such as it was) showed one region/cycle with relatively high rate of change, but it guided out effectively at 1sec update rates. Lots of backlash in both axes, but there are workarounds for that (and I don't feel happy trying to adjust it when Skywatcher provides no advice on how to do it - in fact the SW attitude seems to be "we sold it, you bought it - and that's that"). However, the thing feels unbreakable - hardly notices a 22kg load.

Overall, it has exceptional PE and guiding performance, excellent load capability but much more backlash than my EQ6. Worth the money? - no doubt. Could it be better? - with a bit of work it could be up there with the best, but it isn't there yet. Even so, it can be made to work very well as is.

attached a single sub (stretched a bit) showing typical guiding in average/good seeing with 0.91 arcsec sampling.

[Paul Haese]

Stars look pretty round to me Ray. Maybe you need to get into the mount and adjust the backlash out. Have you taken a look at all to see if that is adjustable?

[mill]

Just sign up here https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SkywatcherEQ8/info and there is plenty of info in the files section on backlash adjustment.
I adjusted mine and it has zero backlash in both axes.

[Shiraz]

It is adjustable Paul, but SW is silent on how to do it - so there is an implication that fiddling around with it might invalidate warranty. Some of the mounts have backlash that varies with wheel position (I haven't checked this one and really don't want to know just yet) - these cannot be adjusted up fully without having the drive seize, and the motors have enough torque to damage things. I am wary of adjusting mine, but will probably have a look at it at some stage. In the meantime, there is stuff all PE and it guides very well if the backlash is managed. SW really needed to put spring loaded worms on them, but I guess that has its own set of problems and would probably have taken the cost well above current levels. As it stands though, it is a bit like a Russian military truck - big, tough and very capable, but with no frills or finesse (no tinsel :lol:).

[Shiraz]

thanks Martin - will do. The first one that I had was one of the horrid "variable backlash" versions - this replacement one is better, but haven't properly checked yet.

[h0ughy]

just a quick note I think there is a new version of the hand controller software - I think it is 3.37?

[rustigsmed]

from the SW website: seems minor I haven't had the parking issue and don't use ascom software so will wait for the next one.

SYNSCAN V3 HAND CONTROLLER FIRMWARE V3.37 (http://www.skywatcher.com/downloads/SynScan%20V3%20hand%20controller%20 firmware%20v3_37.zip)




1. Fix the bug which causes failure on resuming from Parking.
2. Supports more PC commands with increased compatibility with ASCOM software

[codemonkey]

Is anyone using PEC on the EQ8? If so, what was your peak to peak error before and after?

Measured mine recently using PEMPro and my before was 5.4" peak to peak. Haven't applied the PEC yet so I don't know what the after will be.

Given the same data, PECPrep gave me roughly 7" peak to peak. In the scheme of things both are good, but that's a relatively large difference.

My PA was out a fair bit on DEC, so I wonder if that's got anything to do with differences. Maybe the former deals better with that.

I tried to use Astrotortilla to improve my PA earlier that night. According to Astrotortilla I went from 14' low in DEC to 8" low, which is obviously a massive improvement, but resulting alignment was actually significantly worse. I won't be using that again. I probably could have left it how it was originally, but how it is now definitely needs improvement.

Anyway, just curious to see who's using PEC on the EQ8 and what I can expect to get after applying PEC.

[Ryderscope]

Lee, there is a discussion (link here (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SkywatcherEQ8/conversations/messages/375)) on the EQ8 Yahoo users group on Periodic Error. The post shows that they were seeing about 8" periodic error as measured using PECPrep which is consistent with your results. I haven't read further yet to see what improvements might be gained by implementing PEC.

I am interested in following this discussion as I am about to start tweaking the polar alignment of my EQ8 and have been contemplating the implementation of PEC as well. I have just moved from a 900mm refractor to an RC10 with a 2 metre focal length and I can see now that the tracking is not quite as good as I would like it to be.

[Shiraz]

mine measured at 7 arcsec p-p in PECprep as well, with two regions of fairly rapid change. These guide out OK at my typical seeing and at 0.91 arc sec sampling.

attempted PEC as follows:
1. autoPEC - why not give it a go I thought... It generated a reasonable curve, but assumed an EQ6 worm period. I redefined for an EQ8, but the new auto curve had a phase error????.
2. then tried using PECprep with data out of phd (not phd2) - it has to be done exactly by the book. I got a good curve that was very consistent across 5 worm periods and almost removed PE entirely in the simulator, but it had a phase shift as well and I could not get it synchronised, even though I had done time stamping and parking. The phase shift slider did not allow shifting across the whole of the worm cycle, so something? was clearly not quite right.
3. Then both phd and phd2 stopped guiding properly - presumably because EQMOD was applying crap PEC as a carryover from an earlier attempt. disabling PEC did not help and I could only get it all back working by reloading everything.

when I get another marginal night and bit more courage, will try again with PECprep, but not with autoPEC. I don't think it is actually too difficult, but everything has to be done exactly by the book. Rate based PEC is in principle a great idea and should clean up the PE very effectively. In the meantime, I get about 0.6 arcsec RMS guide error at 1 sec update on a good night, which is fairly good anyway.

[codemonkey]

Thanks Rodney :-) Having acquired an old RC8 with a 1.8m focal length somewhat recently myself I know the feeling. It's not an easy task, but I think with the EQ8 we'll get there :-)



Thanks Ray! Sounds like a pain in the nether region, really, but maybe worth it in the end.

I read on another forum of a woman who was using her EQ8 to get very long unguided subs (30mins before trailing started to show if I recall correctly, and I think at a long FL as well). I made the (fairly reasonable, I think) assumption that she was achieving this by applying PEC, thus my sudden interest.

Given that, I thought I'd try PEC myself, as if I can get away without guiding, I'd rather do that. For broadband imaging I think I can get away with 220 second subs, which I'm hoping might be achievable at 1.8m FL with PEC. I guess we'll see!

[codemonkey]

After some tweaking in PECPrep, this is looking very promising. Can't wait to get out and load this up into EQMOD. I wonder how EQMOD knows the worm cycle so that the corrections are in sync though... guess I'll find out soon enough.

I culled out the first and last cycles because they were clearly not aligned with the rest; not sure what happened there. If I keep them in, the residual RMS is still only 0.34". Note that the recorded peaks seem to be unchanged regardless of which cycles I include.

Anyway, if I can keep it at that (<0.34"), and get my alignment nailed then I should be able to do unguided even at 1.8m. Broadband with my skies and equipment only needs 220s exposures, so this may well be doable.

[Shiraz]

it uses a timecode, which as far as I could tell is stored by EQMOD when you push the timestamp button, so that it can determine which PE file to use. I think that it looks for a file with a "last modified" time that matches the timestamp and then assumes that the worm is still synchronised to the worm positions in that file through the park/unpark process. At least that is what I think happens..

If correct, I think that means that you cannot edit the PE log file to remove false starts - it has to be perfect to start with.

Anyone please correct if this is wrong.

[Ryderscope]

After many interruptions from work and weather I've finally gotten around to getting a clean capture for the PE for my EQ8. This is captured with PHD 2.0 using a 900mm F9 refractor as a guide scope. Guide camera is the Orion SSAG. Capture period was approximately 30 minutes at a DEC angle of -10 deg. Guiding was off during this capture.

In DEC I see a gradual drift showing a movement of a little under 15" during the capture period. Whilst the PA is clearly not spot on, my thinking is that a 15" movement after 30 minutes at DEC -10 is possibly ok to the extent that I can rely on guiding to remove this. Am interested in the view of others on this.

In RA I see a fairly consistent PE in a sinusoidal waveform shape but I also see a gradual RA drift of about 12" during the capture period. The peak to peak PE measure is about 7" which is consistent with what other EQ8 owners are reporting.

On the calibration graph I note that the RA calibration is not showing at 90 deg to the DEC calibration. I am wondering if this is telling me something I should know?

Observations and Questions:
1. Is the DEC drift acceptable to the extent that guiding will get rid of it or should we try tweaking the PA again?
2. What would be causing the drift in RA? Is this simply to do with the DEC drift? I note that it does seem to follow the DEC drift.
3. Should I be concerned that the RA and DEC axis are not at 90deg on the calibration graph? I raise this as the PHD documentation indicates that they should be at 90deg.

Thanks in advance.

[Shiraz]

looks pretty routine for an EQ8 Rodney - similar to mine (remarkable how consistent these things are). I wouldn't be concerned about the drifts, unless you are doing very long exposures when field rotation may be an issue. Like mine, yours has regions with fairly abrupt variation in the RA rate - I need to guide at 1hz framerate to keep this under control. Would be nice to have PEC going to help in these regions, but that function doesn't want to work in EQMOD.

[Ryderscope]

Yes, I have reached the same conclusion on PEC in the EQMOD environment and postings on the EQMOD forum confirm this. 'Tis most unfortunate.

I do wonder though about the PPEC function available via the Synta handset and if this has been used successfully?

[Shiraz]

Apparently PPEC now works with the latest motor control firmware upgrade (V211).

In the hope that the new MC software also fixed the problems with PEC in EQMOD, I tried updating. The update failed about 1/3 the way through and the download management software advised to power down reset the mount and try again. On power up, the mount had no power indicator light and, although the handset still worked, it was unable to establish contact with the mount - Oh joy, a new boat anchor....

While I was starting to dismantle the setup to send the dead mount in for repairs, it suddenly clicked - the power light and the handset connection may drop out if the motor firmware is not fully functional, but with some luck, the bit of firmware that manages the upgrade may still be working. Thankfully that was the case and, even though the mount seemed dead and the handset could not connect to it, PCdirect still worked and the upgraded motor firmware eventually installed OK - and everything was back to normal.

However, autoPEC still does not work properly in EQMOD - it still tries to use EQ6 drive parameters.

[h0ughy]

Just a small note about an issue that happened when I attended the 2015 Queensland Astrofest:P. Don't upgrade the hand controller and the motor firmware in the field without thinking things through well. I upgraded the hand controller from 3.35 to 3.37( had not done this since I got it) in the field but then when I went to do the motor firmware it failed, leaving the mount "dead" and not recognising the motors. This was done stupidly with a 7m extension cable that I had plugged into the hand controller then had that plugged into the mount - note to self must use short cables to upgrade ANY firmware. Thankfully someone on the field had either read or heard of this problem before and was fixed by resetting the hand controller to factory settings and then reconnected the computer to the mount then upgrade the software. That worked!!

[h0ughy]

just a note that 6 years on the mount is going great

[peter_4059]

But it only gets used 10 days in each of those 6 years. :poke:

[h0ughy]

true but its worked hard;)

[peter_4059]

Are you referring to how close it gets to releasing the magic blue smoke?

[h0ughy]

:question:

;):help:
no

[Ryderscope]

Good to see you bumping this thread David. Mine has been going strong since I purchased it in 2013 and it has been located in my obs since 2014. Have adjusted the clutch once and the backlash and also found that I needed to disable the auxiliary encoders in EQMOD and thats it. Mine gets a work out most new moon periods whether permitting.

Clear skies,
Rodney

[h0ughy]

Well as the poor thing only ever got used for astrofest I managed to get an adapter made which will allow it to go in the doghouse observatory as the spare mount replacing the Titan 50 when it has its service. I also was able to adapt it to the Meade giant field tripod I have. So it's even more portable than before!! ;)

So for all these years the original is still going strong. I added a V5 hand controller as well.

[h0ughy]

well to add to this its 2022 and nearly April, like most things on April 1 you would think mother nature is indeed playing a practical joke on those living on the east coast of Australia. Covid/la Nina/ more la Nina/ mre covid.... the mount is still sitting temporarily in the doghouse, G clamped to the pier and still works the same as the day i got it. awesome mount, just cant really get to use it , though as a sculpture it does have spider issues, a web of intrigue...........

[Startrek]

It’s painful reading about and looking at all you EQ8 owners photos and comments whilst I patiently wait for my new EQ8-R pro to arrive in Australia
Suppose to be June but like everything at the moment it’s slow as a snail
I guess one positive out it all , the weather has been crap for 6 months and so haven’t missed anything and Winter is looming so looking forward to long dark skies down south at my Obs

[rustigsmed]

Eq8 still going strong - I was one of the first in oz. probably due for a service :lol:
The exchange rate at the time made them an absolute steal from memory ~$4300 for an eq8 w/ tripod