Decisions .....

[TheAstroChannel]

Now that I am starting to get a bit of money, im thinking of upgrading from my 130mm reflector to a 10" GO-TO Dobsonian (http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-10-go-to-dobsonian-telescope.html)
Either that, or i will save up for some collimation equipment and a decent deep sky camera. suggestions are welcome :)

[Max Vondel]

Hi Sean
Exciting that you are upgrading.

I would consider a non-GOTO 12" Dob ~ $800-new (andrews comms)
a 13mm Ethos $700- (bintel) and you would have $220- left over, compared to the 10" Skywatcher GOTO
or perhaps the 17mm Ethos with $100- to spare

The views will blow you away

Investing in quality eyepieces is important.
Because you will keep these, while you change/add to your scopes

That's my 5 cents worth!

:thumbsup:

[TheAstroChannel]

I would go for something like that, but i am into Deep sky photography, and dont want star trailing. Also i love the GO-TO system as i currently own a 130mm reflector with the GO-TO system and think its very good.

[Larryp]

Sean, you will need an equatorial mount if you do not want star trailing. A dobsonian will not allow you to track the sky.

[TheAstroChannel]

What about GO-TO dobsonians? I just found one on andrews comms.
12", 300mm X 1500mm, for $1300. Surely Dobsonians can track the sky

[Larryp]

They are an alt-azimuth scope and do not track the sky in equatorial (R.A and Dec.) mode, which is required for long exposure photography.
You could certainly do some lunar, planetary and solar photography with a dob.

[LAW]

They'll track well enough for visual use but for amateur AP there's no substitute for a good EQ.
Even if you got the tracking dead-on you'll get field rotation because of the difference between ALT/AZ and EQ systems.

[TheAstroChannel]

Ok thanks guys :) This is some useful info!

[TheAstroChannel]

Would a good upgrade be from the 130mm to a 200mm X 1000mm on an EQ5 mount be good? also does an EQ5 mount have tracking functions?

[TheAstroChannel]

Or would it be good to buy an 200mm OTA for my current mount? because i tend to get some nice images from my current set-up. Or would a 200mm OTA be too heavy for a skywatcher GO-TO mount?:shrug:

[Forgey]

Hi Sean,



Yes and Yes. Some EQ5 mounts have tracking and some don't.


No your current mount would not be able to handle it and it's an AZ mount not an EQ mount.

I would also invest in a new imaging camera.

A setup up like this http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/Bintel-BT200-f/4-HEQ5-Pro-GOTO/990/productview.aspx is a start if you want to really get into deep sky astro photography

I have managed to get some DSO with my 12"goto dob here see here http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=107128 but once again you need an EQ mount to get long exposures.

[TheAstroChannel]

Ok, i have decided. First i will buy myself a cheap EQ3PRO Synscan "Go-To" equatorial mount and tripod for $800 then i will buy a Skywatcher Black Diamond 200 x 1000P OTA for $400. I think this should do for me, im excited already! :D Should take me about 4 months to save up!:D

[Forgey]

Hi Sean,
If your going to get a Skywatcher Black Diamond 200 x 1000 (which is an 8") your going to need at least an EQ5 to handle the payload.

[TheAstroChannel]

Ok thankyou Forgey for the heads up :) Should be fine :) and what will i be able to see through an 8"?

[Jon]

Sean, if it were me, I'd stick with your 130mm OTA. In some ways, the OTA is the *least* important part of the imaging rig. Your 130mm f/5 scope will be just fine to catch a whole lot of nebulae and cluster images if it's on the right mount.

The mount is the *most* important part. You'll want an equatorial mount that is capable of being autoguided. The link Paula gave you is a good one, except that I reckon you could use your existing OTA, just buy the EQ5 (or HEQ5 if you want GOTO) and spend the $400 you save on an autoguider package like this one: http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/Autoguiders/Orion-Mini-Autoguider-Package/403/productview.aspx

[TheAstroChannel]

so would i be able to image fainter nebula if i kept my current OTA, which by the way, i cant see much through it, just very faint patches of M42, M20, Centauras A and Omega centauri. Because i really really want to get further with my Deep sky photography.:shrug:

[TheAstroChannel]

You know what, i actually think i am going to need a Deep Sky camera, instead of a new telescope and mount, because at the moment, the longest exposure i can do is 15 seconds. My mount is fine, telescope just needs a little collimating, all i think i need is a decent camera now :P

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Sean,

If you want to get some reasonable and later on, quite good photos, you will need to spend about $1500 on a rig like I have, the 8" reflector on the HEQ5Pro. It is almost at the comfortable limit of the payload capacity of the mount, but if you check my deep sky shots with this rig and firstly a DSLR (unmodded Canon 1000D) and now the Atik 314L+ ($1499 for this camera), plus the guidescope, guidecamera etc etc, you will see what it's capable of.

Now, if you look at what I have spent, its well over $3,000 to get the photos I have recently posted since Xmas last year.....

I have added the first few that I took with just the DSLR on the mount, when it was unguided, but these were only 30 sec shots, stacked (10 of them) to get the photos and the bug to make me want more and better results......

You could start with a basic mount like an EQ3, but you will find it will be struggling to cope with longer exposures without blobby stars if you dont have exceptional polar alignment, so the Heq5Pro is much more forgiving if it is lightly loaded, or well set up.

Have a think about it, if you see some of my history by searching here for posts I have started in the beginner's astrophotography and then later in the deep space forums, you will be able to see what, how much and why I spent my money on to get to this point as well as some of the frustrations along the way.

I am not trying to discourage you, just simply wanting to make sure you don't buy something and find it isnt going to suit the purpose.

I hope this helps

edit: I have added my latest (and best) Trifid with the Atik as a comparison to shot #2, which I took with the dslr just after I got the scope in 2011.

Cheers

Chris

[TheAstroChannel]

Thanks a lot Chris! i think I'm going to have to save up to around $1700, and during that time, I think I'll be able to figure out what i need. At the moment, my thoughts are: What if i buy a deep sky camera for my current 130mm reflector? Will i be better off upgrading instead of buying a new camera? Should i just buy a new mount? It's very annoying, but that helps a lot so thank you Chris :)

[LAW]

Absolutely! For example, Peter.M is using a 6" scope on a HEQ5 and his images are embarrassingly good, comparing his results to mine (8" on an EQ6).


In my humble opinion, blow all of your money on a solid mount. Don't be tempted by 'gimmicks' (I, personally, don't like "goto". It feels like cheating.), something with a good payload rating so you can upgrade your OTA later on, most EQ mounts have RA tracking these days, but an autoguide port will let you expand in the future. And deep space objects really come alive after 60 seconds, you'll need a mount capable of remaining steady over that period of time, a camera capable of relibably recording all that data and a scope capable of capturing it. It's not a cheap hobby, but if you prioritize and learn from the mistakes of others it doesn't need to be exorbitant.

[TheAstroChannel]

So would i be better off for now, buying an EQ5PRO and a decent camera?

[Screwdriverone]

Your mount is CRITICAL Sean.

If your stars aren't pinpoint, it ruins the whole shot, it doesnt matter what sort of camera you have if the tracking is crap.

An F5 newtonian reflector (parabolic) on a solid HEQ5Pro is one of the most forgiving and bang for your buck setups there is.

And it is great for visual too, and some reasonable planetary shots with a webcam. Just take a quiz at Saturn I took through my scope (attached)

Chris

[TheAstroChannel]

What is the difference between the HEQ5 and the EQ5?

[Screwdriverone]

payload capacity is the main one.

HEQ5Pro can handle around 13.5Kg whereas the EQ5 is recommended to have a maximum of 11Kg.

The NEQ6 is much stronger but more pricey. I wouldnt load anything more than my 200mm newt and the orion mini guidescope on mine, even so, I had to buy a third counterweight to make sure it balanced properly.

HEQ5Pro is deemed to be the minimum starting point for Astrophotography here on IIS by many

Cheers

Chris

[TheAstroChannel]

Thanks Chris, yet again!

[Screwdriverone]

Any time Sean.

Cheers

Chris

[Jon]

Sean, you can see my setup in my sig. I have an old 130mm Newtonian I bought in 1986 to see Halley's comet. It has a chip in the primary the size of a 1c piece (they still had 1c pieces when I got this scope).

Just for fun I put the old Newt on top of my Losmandy G11 mount and took some images mainly using stacks of 5-min exposures with my Canon 60Da DSLR. I've attached them so you can see what you might get if you put your existing OTA on an EQ5.

As Chris says, it's a very forgiving way to start with imaging.

As you say, you are also going to need a camera. I'm pretty pleased with my 60Da which I picked up for $1200. Its quality seems on par with Atik and similar astro CCD cameras at the same price (i.e. lower-end). Cheapest of all in your range is http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/CCD-cameras/The-Imaging-Source-DBK-41AU02-AS/911/productview.aspx but I don't know what its output is like.

Mount first, then camera, then autoguiding package, then telescope. In that order.

You mentioned $1700. In that case, get:

- the EQ5 ($600) - don't worry about GOTO. Then
- Get the DBK41AU02 for $600, or the Atik 814E for $900, or try to pick up a second-hand DSLR in that general price range, modded for AP if possible (that's a whole other topic - my camera has a special filter that allows nebulae to be photographed. Most off-the-shelf DSLRs don't.)
- Get an autoguider package such a the Orion mini autoguider pack ($400)

If you still have change from your $1700 (I suspect you won't), then by all means pick up an 8" OTA on the classifieds here - it will let you get fainter objects quicker. But remember, with imaging, aperture is not the key to how faint you can go - exposure length is the key here. And how long you can expose for is entirely determined by the quality of your mount and how well it is autoguided.

[TheAstroChannel]

Will the EQ5 work with the Orion Mini Autoguider? i found it for $399

[RobF]

Payload capacity, can control from your PC with EQMOD, half decent bearings and worms (versus plastic in the EQ5). If you ever plan to shoot deep sky images over a minute or so the HEQ5Pro is a minimum.

Sean you're discovering the evil truth of astronomy. The ideal setup for astrophotography is quite different to needs for visual. Most people have a couple (or more) scopes for this reason. For visual, a 10" or larger dob is unbeatable. For astrophotography most people would suggest you start with an EQ6 and an ED80. You'll be blown away either way - either with what you SEE in the dob, or amazed at what a DSLR can show in a 5min sub through the ED80.

As Paula said, there is the possibility of quite a decent compromise if you get a 8" Newt on an HEQ5Pro. Just make absolutely sure you'll be able to reach prime focus and expect to have very tight backfocus (more reading to do if those are unfamiliar terms - but that's why the hobby is fun - so much to learn and explore! :))

[rmuhlack]

Hi Sean. There are lots of suggestions being offered here which is great. My advice is is to go with a setup that is easy to use, that will minimise your setup time and frustration, and maximise imaging time - and at a reasonable price.

For a camera, I reckon it will be much easier to learn with a DSLR, than getting straight into a astro CCD, and also much much cheaper. Look at Justin Tilbrook's photos (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/search.php?searchid=2603704) in the Deep Space section. He is using an un-modded Canon 1100D and getting some great results, and that camera can be purchased for less than $400.

For a 'scope', you again want something that is easy to handle and quick to setup. Newtonians give lots of aperture at a cheap price, but need good collimation to produce the goods. I started with a 200mm f4 newtonian, which is affordable and can produce nice shots, but can also be very time consuming to collimate well - just what you don't want when you only have a few hours available each evening to take photos. A better option might be an Skywatcher ED80 (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-045C). No collimation required. Just attach the field flattener (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-016E) and your camera and off you go. jjjnettie on the IIS forums has had her photos taken with an ED80 and DSLR displayed at the NASA Goddard Institute, so you certainly can get good results with this gear.

Camera lenses are an even cheaper option. I actually shot a lot of my images last year with camera lenses instead of my newtonian. Lenses are very affordable, quick to setup, don't require a field flatenenr, and are nice and light weight meaning that its less demanding on the mount. I also use a DSLR for my images. See here (images grouped under "Nikkor and "Rubinar" are taken with camera lenses): http://www.astrobin.com/users/rmuhlack/?public&sub=gear

For a mount, I reckon that a GOTO eq mount is really a must, because it just makes finding the objects you want to shoot *so much faster and easier*. A GOTO mount also will make it much faster to polar align, because you can use the polar alignment tools on the mount to get you aligned quickly. GOTO mounts can also be controlled by a laptop, which makes it even more versatile. Your have limited time available to take astrophotos like we all do, (like on a weekday, or if there is clouds approaching) I'd rather as little time as possible setting up so I can spend as much time as possible actually taking photos.

If you're only using camera lenses, you could get away with a light weight mount like an EQ3 GOTO, however if you're using a telescope, then a HEQ5 is probably a safer bet. In the IIS classifieds, there are currently a couple of HEQ5 mounts for sale for $900, just to give an idea of the second hand price.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully that gives you a few more ideas to consider :)

[naskies]

If you read up on the equipment history of all the dedicated astrophotographers here, it's usually just repeated cycles of buy-upgrade-sell as you realise why the entry level equipment that at first looked appealing wasn't suitable.

If I were starting again - I'd probably go for an HEQ5 or NEQ6 (with goto), ED80, field flattener, modded DSLR or OSC cooled CCD, a finder/mini guide scope with camera, dew heaters, upgraded/motorised focuser, a light box, software to streamline things (e.g. BackyardEOS or APT, something like CCDInspector, plus processing software like PI), powered USB hub, laptop for data capturing (possibly processing), and a deep cycle battery + quality charger.

If you're patient, you'll easily to be able to get all of the above within your $1700 budget by purchasing second hand. The benefit is that when you feel the need to upgrade, you won't lose much $$$ as they're all easily sellable items. (Buying new will be well over your budget.)

You'll notice that the OTA actually makes up for a tiny part of the budget - it's not quite as important as other things (especially mount). The problem with getting a big OTA for deep space imaging is that everything else becomes correspondingly more expensive - you'll need a bigger mount, better focuser, better field flattener, bigger sensor, etc etc.

There's soooo much knowledge, skill, and experience that you need to get that set up to work well that it'll keep you busy for ages :) I think people - myself included - tend to underestimate the skill needed, and overestimate the need/benefit of giant OTAs - because it's a much less visible part of imaging.

If you read around the forum, you'll see that getting round stars across the entire frame is a tricky business - even for the guys with top notch equipment.

Good luck! :)

[TheAstroChannel]

At the moment, I think I'll start off buying a Canon 1100D, then make my way up to the mount, then guidescope and so on. But thanks so much to everyone, you really have opened up my mind further about such an amazing hobby :):thanx: