Which telescope to get for a surprise birthday present!

[Sara]

Hi everyone,

I really am a complete beginner, so here goes:
My partner and I are really into astronomy and stargazing. He's an engineer and physicist in training, so I want to get him a telescope for his birthday!
There are soo many to choose from! I've been speaking to Chris from astronomy alive, who has recommended the Saxon 909EQ2 http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/intermediate-level-telescope/saxon-909eq2-90mm-refracting-telescope-system.html

I know this will do great things things, see moons of jupiter and rings of saturn, but I'm wondering how everyone else feels about this telescope? Has anyone bought it? How do you feel about the mount? Can it see galaxies at all? I want to make along tern investment that I won't have to replace in a new years...
The key criteria for a telescope would be:
-Be able to see the red spot of Jupiter
-Be able to see details of the moon
-Be able to carry it around without a huge amount of trouble.
-Be under $400 (Still a student -_-)

And it would be amazing if it could pick up Galaxies, though it seems that's something only advanced $1000+ telescopes can do...

Also are there any second hand telescopes out there that might be suitable? I'm in Victoria.

Any and all suggestions and advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Sara]

Okay, reading through the forums everyone seems pretty against EQ mounts. There is an alternative like this
http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/saxon-dob-6-152mm-reflecting-telescope-system.html

Does the mount really make such a big difference? Apparently the EQ909 is a more powerful telescope, so would it be worth downgrading to get a Dobson mount? They look difficult to carry!

[Wavytone]

Hi Sarah,

In your situation my first choice would be

a) a pair of 7x50's binoculars, these are likely to stay with him for life. Always useful, and there's nothing better for really impressive wide-field views of the night sky.
b) a subscription to a year of the US version of 'Sky & Telescope' (not the Australian one).

Then find a local astro group near you and join them for an observing night to see how interested he (or you) are. This could make a nice mystery trip, if you want to spring a surprise on him !

The reason I suggest this are:

a) the scope you picked is a frankly a bit of a toy and won't last long - if he is seriously interested in this he'll make or buy a much bigger telescope.
b) its a good idea to try someone else's telescope (a good one) before deciding to plunge a lot of money into a hobby like this.
c) choose a telescope that matches your interests (photography, deep sky, or the moon and planets) as different kinds of telescope have different uses.

If you're really set on buying a scope, buy the biggest aperture you can afford - I'd suggest forget equatorial mounts, and buy a 200mm aperture Dobsonian like this http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/Bintel-BT202-B-8--Dobsonian/72/productview.aspx

You should find one secondhand for your budget.

Next year you can give him a really nice eyepiece ;)

[rustigsmed]

I agree, get an 8" dobsonian telescope, you will get good views, newtonians are generally the best bang for buck scopes out there, you are on a budget so go for it. Keep an eye out for second hand ones too.

[Steffen]

Another vote for an 8" Dob (although they go for $500 new).

Cheers
Steffen.

[Sara]

Thanks guys! Very helpful. I can definitely appreciate what you are saying, but I would really like to get him a scope this birthday though, we've been talking about it for at least 6 months!
I guess that's what I wanted to know, what is considered a 'toy' and what would be useful for a beginner, but someone who has a serious interest in the field.
So it seems like the 8' Dob is the way to go. Perhaps a friend can chip in and raise our budget a bit, does this look like a good one?
http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/advanced-level-telescope/saxon-collapsible-dob-8-200mm-8-inch-reflecting-telescope-system.html
How is the saxon brand in your opinion? The collapsable seems like it would be more manoeuvrable on expeditions, thoughts?
Has anyone seen any of this kind second hand?

[AstralTraveller]

+1 for the 8" dobs. Andrews have them for $399 and Bintel for $499. Perhaps the Bintel is better, I don't know, but the difference is probably marginal. You will outgrow it, everyone does, but it's a very good start and you will have a chance to find out whether you are really into astronomy and what your preferred upgrade path is - a bigger visual scope, photography or perhaps a specialist solar scope. Your first upgrade though will probably be eyepieces. The included eps are good for what they are - cheap - but they will be the weak link in you system. If you think you will be into visual astronomy in the long term get good, ... no excellent, eps because they will stay with you after you upgrade the scope and in any case they hold their resale value better than low or medium grade eps.

[h0ughy]

8 inch dob is $399 from andrews communications. you can get a set of bino's both great presents

[Sara]

How about this one?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/melbourne-region/miscellaneous-goods/10-inch-bintel-dobsonian-telescope/1017655422

[mental4astro]

Bintel dobs are rebadged GSO dobs. There is a Bintel store in Melbourne. There's a link to them in their ad in the right margin.

Me too +1 for an 8" dob. Even a 10" & 12".

Andrews Comminucations (http://andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm) has GSO solid tube scopes (look under the Guan Sheng heading) & Skywatcher collapsible dobs (Skywatcher heading).

An 8" scope is more than capable of showing galaxies. The key to all deep sky objects for best viewing is to be at a dark sky site away from urban light pollution. I have an 8" dob that I mainly use from home - I tend to keep my big 17.5" for use at dark skies. I LOVE my 8" dobbie!

[mental4astro]

YES! A ripper scope.

Just ask to inspect it before laying your money down. Comes with a bunch of EPs (eyepieces) to get you started. I too have a 10" dob, love it too!

[Sara]

Okay! Well he says it's been serviced recently but has no warranty, and I can look at it tonight, what should I be looking for? Apart from actually being able to see anything!

[mental4astro]

Look for marks on the primary mirror - there should be nothing more than a little dust. No finger prints, no scratches. Use a torch for this, moving it about. DON'T do this with the scope pointing straight up!!! Tip down the scope for this. You don't want to accidentally drop something onto the primary mirror!!!!!

Same with the eyepieces, finder scope & filter.

Ask to see how the scope is put together for use, & how the main tube comes off the mount for transportation. Also place an EP in the focuser & move the scope about as if you were using it under the stars. All the actions should be smooth, including the winding in & out of the focuser.

Ask to see how to align the focuser - this will save you a lot of time.

Lastly, ask if the seller knows how to collimate (align) the scope's optics. This too will save you a lot of time & improve the quality of the image.

[AstralTraveller]

I'm not sure what he means by 'serviced', it's not as though you need to change the oil. I'd check that there is no signs of damage and that the mount and focusser move smoothly. There needs to be some resistance to movement but not too much. You neither want the scope to fly about at the slightest touch nor be so tight that it is jerky to move. Check the state of the mirrors (both of them). A little dust is normal (difficult to avoid) but if they are tarnished you're up for a re-aluminizing, which will cost more than you are saving over new.

[mental4astro]

This last point has no bearing on the deal - it is only to see how to collimate the scope, as all Newtonian scopes will need the occasional tweek. If the seller can't help, that's fine as there is plenty of help here in IIS & the net. A local Astro club will help too.

David has also come up with some good points, :)

[dannat]

The gumtree one is good but check the dimensions, it's not small.

If money is tight ozscopes have a 6" dob on eBay for 270ish

[Sara]

Thanks so much! I have written down everything you both said and will do all the checks, hopefully tonight!
Just one more thing, will the 10 inch be TOO big and become a real hassel to move about?

[mental4astro]

That's something you'll need to work out. Some folks a cheapie hand trolley to move it about. Just depends on your physical disposition. They are not impossible weights, just an awkward size & shape.

You might like to see how it fits in your car too.

[Scorpius51]

Hi Sara

I have a Bintel 10" Dob and it's a great scope. It is bulky, though, but not too difficult to move around. The tube and the mount will have to be moved separatley, unless you put locking castors under the base. An 8" would be much easier. Check to see whether it will fit in your car across the back seat.

Cheers
John

[niko]

I'd go for an 8" dob too - still pretty portable - I could carry mine on the mount by myself - the step up to the 10" while good for improved viewing increases weight and size quite a bit

I won't personally bother with a 6" dob

I wouldn't put too much stock in someone who suggested the 909 - more hassle than it's worth

niko

[AstralTraveller]

The 8 and the 10 are pretty much the same length but the 10 is fatter. The 8 will be a f/6 so 200mm x 6 = 1200mm focal length and the 10 will be f/5 so 250 x 5 = 1250mm focal length. The shorter ratio will make collimation more critical and increase off-axis coma but these disadvantages are more than offset but the increased light gathering ability, which is proportional to the ratio of the square of the apertures. So 8^2=64 and 10^2=100 so the 10 gathers 100/64 = 1.56 times more light than an 8 - a substantial increase. [If this makes the 10 more attractive you already have aperture fever :lol:.]

One thing which may be on the primary mirror, and should be there, is a centre mark, which aids collimation. It is normally a re-enforcing ring, the things you stick on pieces of paper when putting them into a ring binder so the hole doesn't tear. It doesn't affect the operation of the scope because it is in the shadow of the secondary.

[knightrider]

If it were me,

I'd go for a 6" newtonian on an EQ mount. Something like the following:
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-150mm-eq3-reflector-telescope.html

It would serve you for years to come.

A 6" aperture is still a decent size scope and it will show you plenty the night sky has to offer. Realistically also you won't be getting any extra usable magnification out of a bigger scope, just makes the dimmer objects easier to see just that bit more.

It would be very easy to carry to and from the house, or if you wanted to transport it also.

The deal breaker for me would be the slow motion control knobs on the EQ mount as opposed to having to manually nudge and push the dobsonian mounted scope. Especially if you're using higher magnifications on the planets the nudging and pushing would become quite average as opposed to having slow motion knobs to finely track the object in the eyepiece.

And if he decided to upgrade later, he can buy that large aperture scope, say 10" or 12" to dedicate to it more, and still keep the 6" as a second scope. But I'd suggest to get the GoTo tracking on a later upgrade to get rid of the manual movement on the scope to keep things centered so you spend more time viewing than moving.

But as for getting the most aperture for your money, you can't beat the dobsonians.

[pw]

I'm new to astronomy and recently bought my first telescope. I got a Bintel 8" Dobsonian and it has been great. Stars, planets, nebulas and so on are all clearly visible and exciting to find and observe. Get that Astronomy Australia 2013 book too, it has great ideas for what to look out for each month and charts to help you find the objects. Well worth the $25 or $35 that it costs.

[RobF]

You could be quite surprised how big a 10" dob looks in the flesh first time. Quite a difference in weight and convenience lugging outside or fitting in a small car. The best telescope is necessarily the biggest if you can't be bothered setting it up....:)