Birdwatching/Astro Binoculars: Bintel Take a Bow!

[Rodstar]

Hi all,

Through some wonderful holidays in the Coonabarabran region, especially at Pilliga Pottery, I have become interested in birdwatching. This may be a sad reflection of my age, or be indicative of some slowly evolving dimentia, but there you have it!

Anyhow, I dropped into the boys at Bintel late last week, and Mike Smith and Michael Chaytor gave me a fantastic introduction to binos for birding. I emailed them yesterday to advise my choice (which at that point they did not have in stock). The stock arrived this morning, and so Michael Chaytor was on the phone to me straight away to let me know. With the payment by credit card over the phone, within three hours I had my new binoculars around my neck at my office in Chatswood!

Now that is superb service!:thumbsup:

By the way, the binos I got are Nikon Monarchs (series 5), 8 x 42, as per: www.bintel.com.au/Binoculars/Nikon-Binoculars/Nikon-Monarch-DCF-8x42/1193/productview.aspx

Late in the day, I spent some time in very low light (about 6.10pm), observing a huge flock of Eastern Rosellas carrying on in a stand of trees near Woy Woy station. In what was essentially darkness, I was able to ascertain exactly what was going on in that tree, and let me tell you there was a lot of love going on!;)

After dinner tonight I spent some time under the stars, seeing how the Nikon performs with the night sky. Very nicely is the answer. I very comfortably enjoyed views of the Carina Nebula complex, M42 and surrounds, Omega Centauri and numerous star clusters and wide doubles around the sky. I am very pleased. At 610 grams, it is very light and comfortable to hold up, and at 8x magnification, the view is pretty steady, especially if you are sitting or leaning against something to aid one's overall balance.

I can't wait for a chance to observe some bird life next time I have some time at home during daylight hours!

[pw]

I got the same binoculars from Bintel in Melbourne at Christmas time. They're great aren't they. I've been using mine for a bit of bird ad animal watching as well as enjoying the night sky through them.

[Rodstar]

Great to hear Peter. I considered going for a more expensive model, such as Leica or Kowa, but the difference (which is pretty negligible) hardly justifies the additional cost. Very happy with my Nikons!

[Draco]

I was considering getting a Monarch myself however I am pressed for money at the moment so couldn't quite afford it.

From my limited readings I know that bigger aperture size plus magnification is great for binoculars (however anything 10x50 or more needs a tripod to get the hand jitters from affecting the image). I have been looking at this bushnell spotting scope for $250. I would like to see the moons of jupiter/saturn and deep sky objects. would this be any good? Its a 15-45x 60mm Bushnell Spotting Scope

The link is to paxtons website however due to IIS URL handling the whole link doesnt work. Here is the shortened version http://bit.ly/YJV1UA of the url and the actual link is below ( if you use the long url, you will need to copy and paste it verbatim to get to the website)

http://paxtons.com.au/spec_sheet.html?catalog[name]=Bushnell-SpaceMaster-15-45x-60mm-Black-Spotting-Scope-%28%23781818%29-Binoculars-%26-Scopes&catalog[product_guids][0]=880102 (http://paxtons.com.au/spec_sheet.html?catalog)

Thank you

[pw]

I'd imagine the spotting scope would be OK for planets. You can see the moons of Jupiter in my binoculars. I must have a look at Saturn through them too.

[Filby]

I also catch the train at Woy Woy- Are you sure they weren't rainbow lorikeets?

[Draco]

I have a DickSmith Digitor 10x50 Binoculars. They are ruby color coated and though they magnify things but for the life of me, I cant see any moons of Jupiter. Even Jupiter comes out as a fuzzy ball .. must be the ruby coating scattering the light :(

[Tinderboxsky]

Hi Draco,
I would signal a word of caution re the Bushnell spotting scope you refer to.
I have no viewing experience with this spotting scope, however, 60mm aperture with reasonable optics will give good views of the moon, Jupiter's disc with the 4 moons and a very small Saturn with its rings and Titan. I think the other moons of Saturn will be too faint for this scope.

Of concern though is the table top mount combined with a straight through eyepiece view. Generally the higher the elevation of the target the better the views will be as you are looking through less atmosphere. In practical terms elevations above 30 degrees are needed for better viewing. Have a careful think about how comfortable the view will be if the target object is high in the sky. Find an old cardboard tube or fashion one out of paper, take it outside and try looking through the tube when holding it in the position that the mount would be supporting it. Have a good experiment to see if it will work for you.

As an alternative, does this spotting scope come in a 45deg angled eyepiece version? This would give you a reasonable compromise - still useable for terrestrial and a more comfortable introduction to the night sky. That is how I started and it worked quite well until I wanted to see more - I now have dedicated astronomical telescope and retain the spotting scope for daytime terrestrial viewing. Just check that the mount head allows the scope to reach good elevations - many terrestrial spotting scopes will only allow very limited viewing elevations. It will not be possible to use this spotting scope successfully without some form of mount.

Good luck.

Steve

[Draco]

Thank you for your post Tinderboxsky. The table top was just a piece of junk that came with the scope. I was planning on getting a better mount (camera mount).

It had a straight eyepiece so yes completely agree that it would have been a massive pain in the neck (pun intended ;) ) had I spent alot of time with it. The one with the right angle eyepiece was a smaller scope with a 50mm aperture so wasnt so keen on it.

I just went o paxtons to have a handson look at the spotting scope and could only find the 15-45x 50mm scope. I got told that they had never stocked the 15-45x 60mm :( was totally disappointed but then saw a couple of bushnell binoculars. Will need to do some research to see which ones can show me the moons of jupiter. Oh well :(

[Miaplacidus]

My 2c worth.

I love my image stabilized binoculars for both astro and birdwatching.

Of course they're more expensive, but at least you won't need to spring for the cost of a tripod. It is so easy to see the Jovian moons, lovely and steady instead of zig-zagging fireflies, and the moon is a revelation while hand-held viewing. Very nice for sharing with novices.

When it comes to birding, you see much more detail with the IS binos too. I took my 15 x 70 Astrobinoculars, mounted on a tripod, to Gould's Lagoon recently to view the Freckled ducks, and saw more detail with infinitely less trouble with the 10 x 42 Canon.

[Rodstar]

Right you are Phil. Slip of the tongue/fingers!:P

[beren]

Congrats on the bino's :thumbsup: I recently brought a set of Monarchs {10x42} myself for birdwatching, really like them. Where I'm working at the moment in the eastern Pilbara it's a real treat doing some hiking and watching the abundant birdlife around the area.

[Rodstar]

Brian, when I have enough fee cash, I might just look at those image stabilising bins. Are they a lot more heavy?

Beren, from my wide reading on the subject, there is an active debate though between 8 x and 10 x. The general consensus seems to be that if you are wanting better reach, such as if you are observing over hundreds of metres in very open settings, such as coastlines, you might be better to go with 10 x , but if you are mainly bushwalking, looking up in the trees around you etc, then 8 x is better because of its more stable image.

I went on really good bird walk on Friday, and the 8 x are spot on for me. It's close focus is about 2m, which meant that I could look at a red faced wattlebird that was about that distance away from me, and it was like having the bird right next to my face! With the same bins I was able to observe a graceful pair of black swans from a distance of about 150m no problems at all.

[LewisM]

Be interesting to find out which Chinese company is making these - I suspect Synta. THe same binos are rebadged to SEVERAL different companies, all at wildly different prices. Mine are Leupold branded (a firearms optics manufacturer), and apart from mine being 7x50, and with a different pivot hinge cap badge, they are identical. VERY good optics (I have raved about mine before).

Bintel's price is decent.

[beren]

Yes would be interesting, I got the series 7 which I hoped would be made in Japan but are marked China, maybe the flagship EDG range are Japanese made, you would hope so at their price point.



It was a tough choice but got tempted with the extra reach of the 10x, I already own one of Nikon's fieldscopes so probably should of gone with the 8x42 but still very happy. Also handy with my other interests of archery, target shooting and weird sport of fox calling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HojzyOiXAmE) :P

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi Rodstar,

I looked at the Canon stabilised binoculars and found a few things I didn't like about them. For their size, they are a little heavy and are also quite bulkier than comparable size binoculars. Also, whilst using them, the battery went flat, so you would need to keep a few batteries handy. Also, I considered that there was more that could go wrong with these binoculars, as they electro-stabilised.

Another thing that I had noticed was that you couldn't aim them at the sky, as the stabiliser only works properly below about 30 - 40 degrees elevation, although I am sure some will disagree with this, as there may be variations in this. If you are watching fast moving objects or on a moving object, they are great, but not completely necessary, in my view.

On the other hand, the Fujinon electro-stabilised binocular is considerably better, but is also very bulky, and much more expensive. The best stabilised binoculars I have ever used are the Fujinon Gyro-stabilised binoculars. These are just fantastic, but at $10,000 approximately, you would expect them to be. Also, this model can take light intensifier tubes and that also looks fantastic, but add another $12,000. If only I could win lotto!

Furthermore, I didn't see a significant advantage in the stabilisation. I shake a little bit, as a result of an accident, and didn't think that they were that stable really. Although, to be fair, I did compare them to the Leica 8x32 Ultravid's, which are very compact, with great light transmission and have a nice wide field. The field of view advantage negated the need for stabilisation.

Considering the price difference, the Canon was well priced, and do work well, however, I really did think the Leica were considerable better, far more robust (little to go wrong with them) and considerably more compact. They would want to be good, given that they are twice the price of the Canon.

After looking at and comparing many binoculars, I settled on the Leica 8x32 Ultravid, as I could see much finer detail. Expensive, I know, but when comparing them I could easily see that they were the best, at least, in my mind. I never set out to spend that much on a compact binocular, and had a very hard time justifying them, but have been very happy that I did. I just love my Leica. Despite their size, they give amazing view of the stars. I now only use my Leica 8x32 for astro work and don't really use my Fujinon 7x50, as they are quite heavy. But, also to be fair, the compactness of these binoculrs mean that I take them more places, unlike my more bulkier binoculars.

A further point to remember is that it isn't all about the optics, as construction is also very important, if not more so than the optics. Good quality construction provides a more robust binocular, which are far less likely to go out of collimation. Good quality optics coupled with poor construction will lead to collimation problems. Sometimes, these collimation problems are not easily seen, as your eyes will adjust, however, that will strain the eyes. Getting binoculars properly collimated can cost anywhere from $45 - $80. So, bare that in mind when selecting binoculars. There is a reason why high quality binoculars are expensive, as they are much better optically and mechanically. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware).

But, it all comes down to what you can afford, or what you want to pay.

Cheers Peter

[Filby]

My 2 cents worth:

Enjoy the binoculars that you have. They sound great. Enough said.

p.s.
I dont have a steady hand. So about a year ago I bought a pair of Canon 10 x 30 image stabilised binoculars.
I love them!
In fact I used them on the weekend for bird watching in Brisbane Water NP.
Can see moons of jupiter.
Under $500 on ebay shipped from Hong Kong.
They are better than the Canon 8x25 IS that I compared.
Have replaced the battery once, no problem. User replaceable. And they still work with a flat battery, just not stabilised.
Another important point is that they have stayed in collimation. I was sick of cheap binoculars that end up (or start out) looking at slightly different things through each eye.

p.p.s. sorry for being a smarty pants. Do you have a bird book or app to help in identification? There are some really great references available.

[Rodstar]

Hi Filby, the Canon sounds great, and good price too. Very happy with my purchase. I didn't think you were being a smarty pants! Yes, I have recently purchased Simpson and Day's field guide to Australian Birds, which is proving very useful.

[xstream]

Rod I can vouch for this App. (https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/michael-morcombe-david-stewart/id397979505?mt=8) I wouldn't be without it.

[Rodstar]

Hey Peter, I was very tempted to go for the Leica Ultravids....they look fantastic....just too early into my journey with birdwatching to spend quite that much. But I suspect I might go that way in the long run.

Hey John. We have another thing to enjoy at Pilliga next year - had no idea you kept an eye out for birds. Did we tell you that an owl landed on our outside couch this year at the Poet's cottage? That's what really piqued my interest. I have the freebie version of the App you mention, just haven't yet spent on the full App yet.

[xstream]

Yes Rod. I used to breed endangered and notable species, I've always had a soft spot for our feathered friends. :)
You did mention about the Owl, I think we were guessing if it may have been a Mopoke.

Just spend the $40.00 on the App. You won't regret it. ;)

[Miaplacidus]

I guess the specs are somewhere. In practice, no, I don't find them a problem for use with birding or astro. I had the 12x36 first, and found them fine for cruising star fields, etc, as well as being plenty light enough as to not be a factor. But in direct comparison I find the 10x42's better quality optics give finer detail in daytime use. They weigh more, but in practice I don't have any problem even if I'm studying a bird for several minutes at a time.

Actually, the real test for IS binoculars is to try viewing some text from a distance. The difference between IS being turned off or on is both obvious and remarkable.

I use them a few times per week. I've changed the batteries once in the past 6 months, about 6 weeks ago.

Try them. Once I did I was hooked.

Good luck.

[Andrew C]

I think for those who have used binoculars for long enough to be really comfortable with them for birdwatching or other terrestrial observation, there is not a lot of value in moving to IS, unless perhaps most of your birding is looking at waterbirds, where extra magnification (greater than 10x) is desirable and the IS really does become a necessary feature. That may not be the case for astro, but then it is usually possible to find a post to lean the binocs on for the odd occasion you are straining to look at the moons of Jupiter, or Saturn. Saturn, by the way, is a really good subject to use to assess the resolving quality of a pair of (supported) binoculars.

On another but related topic, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has explored the availability of quality wide angle binoculars for birdwatching (i.e. 8 degrees FoV or wider).

[dannat]

andrew i havnt found the wide for bins useful for birding - i prefer extra mag, havnt had much trouble locoing creates in the field

[anj026]

The Nikon 8x30 EII has 8.8 degrees FOV and is available from Singapore or Hong Kong. It is an excellent binocular, old fashioned and not waterproof but first class optics. :thumbsup:

Here is a review;
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/meopta8x32.html

[faaarwest2k]

This sounds awesome!

[sil]

It's interesting to hear others experiences with their binoculars. I'd been after a compact pair for ages but never found a pair I could afford or had the image quality I was after. I wanted something ultra-portable to aid my wildlife photography (spotting the wildlife before I get close enough for them to spot me and scamper away).

I ended up picking up second hand (here on IIS) Leica Trinovid compact 8x20 binoculars. Optics and build quality are superb and well worth the wait and price to pick up. I also use them for scanning the skies while my camera or scope are on astrophotography duty. Picking out Jupiter and four moons or Saturn is dead easy with them. The Orion Nebula also is easy to make out too, better than I would have expected. This is under light polluted skies too.

Over the years with photography I guess I have learnt to hold a telephoto lens steady for shots so pocket binoculars aren't too much of a hassle to keep relatively still. Certainly with photography one thing I've learnt (the hard way, much like many amateur astronomers too) is with optics you get what you pay for. You can end up spending a small fortune on cheap equipment, then upgrading slightly, and again and again until you've spent more than a top of the range item. The fun of buying new toys is exciting, but you'll be better off equipment-wise and money-wise if you be patient, save that bit extra, and buy the better quality toy up front.

[Draco]

well said sil :thumbsup:

[Rodstar]

Just thought I would report back on how I am faring with the Nikon Monarchs. In short, they are fabulous, and I am very happy.

I have been out birding about 10 times now, as well as spending much time in the backyard observing more common varieties. I have accumulated about 40 species of bird so far, and am always thinking about where I might go birding next.

The binos are incredibly comfortable to use - light, intuitive, they snap into focus, the eye relief is perfectly comfortable with glasses on, and the views are exceptional.

I have become rather adept at picking up birds in flight, and following their path through the sky. It is incredible once you know what to look for, just how much detail you can see even as the bird is moving through the sky.

I find it hard to imagine ever wanting anything more than what I have. The Nikon Monarch 5, 8x42 are superb for bird watching.

I have been so impressed that I bought a second pair as a farewell gift to one of our staff who recently retired. He also reports being absolutely delighted with them.