Scopes from USA

[martyn01]

Hi all I have been looking at getting a scope from USA as its about $1000 cheaper if anyone else is looking at doing the same maybe we can order it at the same time and see if we can get a better deal on it I'm looking for a nexstar 8se found it shipped to me for $1159 and shipping $240 but I think if we try and order a few at the same time maybe they will cut us a better deal plz let me know if anyone would be interested in this

[Rod771]

Just make sure the shipping quote is confirmed by an actual person from the vendor. Don't rely on the automated quotes from the websites, they can be off the mark a bit.

Also don't forget you'll have to pay GST on the total amount including shipping.
Even so, it can still be a lot cheaper to import form the states.

Good luck with the purchase. :thumbsup:

[barx1963]

Are you absolutely certain they will ship ouside the US? Celestron do not allow their dealers to sell outside their areas so I would check carefully.

Malcolm

[martyn01]

If it comes to that my no lives in USA free shipping to her place she can send it to me and then I can have it sent as 2nd hand good under $1000 no gst

[scarecrow2012]

I might be interested in importing, same model. Where did you find this?

[wavelandscott]

Just a word of advice...be careful not to name the potential US based retailer in the open forum. It is likely a violation of their distribution agreement to knowingly sell outside of their territory and penalties to them would likely apply.

While I am not a prude, I also urge careful consideration about playing games with declared values on importation...if there was damage your insurance claim would be compromised as well as the fact that declaring an incorrect value and getting caught can lead to other potential difficulties and expense.

While it might not seem legitimate, there are a number of reasons why pricing in Australia may be different...not just local profiteering...

[Barrykgerdes]

You would need to be mad to buy from the USA at that price when you can get one in Australia for $1450 delivered. from an advertiser on IIS "Telescopes direct".

I supect that the item is being cleared to make way for a new line.

Barry

[bindibadgi]

I think you must be mixing it up with a different scope. The 8se is $2,399 from Telescopes Direct, not $1,450.

I really want an 8se, and I am genuinely outraged that the MSRP is $1,199 in the USA and $5,199 in Australia. Somebody ought to be imprisoned over this. We have a free trade agreement, so I'm not sure how Celestron can get away with their policy of not allowing retailers to ship outside of their area.

We are being blatantly ripped off here folks, don't try to soften it up. I'm not saying that it is necessarily anybody in Australia who is at fault; I'm sure the stores here are only passing on the ridiculously high prices that they are charged by the manufacterer, but Celestron should be hanged.

[Rod771]

Not so much Celestron, but definitely their Australian distributor Sheldon and Hammond

[Barrykgerdes]

Interesting Sorry about that
I just googled celestron 8se and came up with that price. However closer inspection of the add showed it as 6se. However the price of the 8se at $2400 still looks pretty good considering the Australian marketing costs.

However there may be some overpricing of goods in Australia. You would need to be an importer and retailer to know the expenses of retailing in Australia. The Australian retailer has to provide for expenses in selling that are unheard of in the rest of the world and don't forget everything you buy anywhere overseas is bought on credit that will need to be paid for some day.

Barry

[Russ59]

Lane, this topic gets brought up with monotonous regularity in the atronomy community for as long as i can recall. Nothing changes, never have and never will.

I has read countless threads across several forums over the years complaining about it.

I know other members previously in this thread have raised some questions for you but I'll ask them again for your consideration...

1. When you acquired your overseas price, was it via the vendor's automatic website? Did you confirm from an actual human being that the will definitely ship to Australia? If you simply calculated the price via the vendor's checkout, then wait until a human being intervenes in the warehouse. I have personally had orders cancelled after it wa discovered I was not in the US.

2. If your 8SE is faulty you will have no warranty support anywhere he in Australia.

3. Have you factored in 10% import GST?

4. As mentioned, if you mention the vendor there is a good chance Celestron will be advised and the vendor will be penalised (and you won't get your order).

5. As Barry said, $2400 is a pretty good price for an Australian Retailer.

6. Whilst I understand you are "outraged" over the $5199 MSRP, realistically they are being sold for $2400, so no need to get upset over a possible marketing ploy by a local retailer.

7. As a side note, this range does not have a clutch, so you cannot disengage the drive and operate the scope by hand. Are you aware of this? I only point this out because it is something that is often pointed out with the SE range. I know because I've been a part of a number of threads in forums in the US and UK which have raised this topic.

[martyn01]

I have been looking a lot online for the nexstar 8se and found a few sites that will ship it for $256 that's not to bad

[Russ59]

Are they Australian sellers, Lane?

Cheers,
Russ

[martyn01]

No from USA just trying to save a few 100$ on the scope

[Barrykgerdes]

This is an interesting point. Over the last three years I have acquired three base assemblies from the SE series scopes. All with damaged Altitude/declination drive sections. Whether they wore out or broke from abuse I don't know. They were not repairable so they would have needed to be replaced under warrantee. (necessary in Australia). This warrantee would no doubt have been carried by the vendor, another selling cost in Australia.

Barry

[allan gould]

Just checked AndrewsCom and the Celestron 8SE is $1999 with free shipping. I wouldnt bother going else where. Considering the guarantee

[martyn01]

I will never shop at Andrews again after my last scope, got a 10" don when I got it it was the wrong scope that was on line hr gave me an old style scope and said it was new, all parts not in the box and he got upset that I wanted to take it back, he was very nasty when I took it back in to his shop so never again with Andrews

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: Thats strange Lane ? I have found andrews very good .
Even when I ordered a 150mm f5 SW frak and they sent a 150mm f5 SW Newt instead they payed for the reverse shipping back from all the way up here from Darwin as well as sending the refractor the same day I contacted them , even before I recieved the instructions on how to sent the Newtonion back .
Brian .

[allan gould]

Never had a problem with Andrewscom even when a WO refractor purchased by me had astigmatism and some other errors. Replaced without a murmur. That's why I recommended them.
Allan

[martyn01]

Same that's why I went there as most people on here said it was a good place to go maybe just a bad day or something not sure but all good just want to get a nice new scope at least 8" and goto but all the talk abut nexstar and some of the problems now I need to think again o well just save up a bit

[Larryp]

Same here with replacing a Long Perng refractor

[brian nordstrom]

:sadeyes: Bad day I reckon , his satalite fell from the sky ? just that morning ?.;) .
Good astro suppliers that know the rules , Southern hemisphere astronomy , has us southern people talking alot .
There aint many of us and we do keep in touch world wide and bad press kills a ****ty seller very fast astro gear wise ( look on guntree for this) .

Andrewscomm is only one of 4 main astro gear suppliers in Australia and they would have seen this thread by now .;) .

Thats why .
Small community us people .
I apoligise for them .:) .

Brian .

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: 68 post's , and you comment like this , ? .
Thanks for the run down on importers , I apoligise if this is offensive .
Buy local , thats my vote .

Brian.

[Astro_Bot]

Maybe I'm having a slow day, but I'm genuinely confused as to what was supposed to be wrong with Russ's post (#11). :shrug:

[Russ59]

I too am confused as to this response. Is there anything i have said which is incorrect, not factual, offensive or out of place??? I have provided some genuine advice based on my experience.

Is it because I have only 68 posts here on Ice In Space?? Just because I have only 68 posts on Ice in Space does not mean I am a beginner.

Regards, Russ

[stephenb]

Ignore him Russ :drink::drink:

Your post makes complete sense, mate :thumbsup:

[lazjen]

I've had thoughts of importing from the US instead of buying locally.

The main thing that has stopped me so far has been the warranty issue, however I have discovered that if you buy within the US (pick up yourself and/or ship to a US address), then ship it to Australia yourself, the warranty counts here still.

It then becomes an equation to solve, for these variables:

Local price in AUD (plus local shipping cost - usually free within Aus for the level of gear we're talking about)

vs

Price in USD + US Address Shipping cost (usually free, although if you're picking it up yourself - air fare, etc; or extra for those services that provide US addresses for you) + Shipping to Aus cost + shipping insurance + 10% GST + currency conversion costs if any.

So, that should give you an idea of the difference in cost, but it doesn't include intangibles like the "hassle factor" (as I think of it).

Personally I'd like to buy locally, but when I see things like this (as a sample, no sale prices, best Aus price I've found, "random" US sites pricing):


Item | Aus Price | US Price
8" CGEM 800 | $4399 | $2199
9.25" CGEM 925HD | $5499 | $3499
11" CGEM DX 1100HD | $7499 | $3699
...I start to really consider how much extra money I'm likely to spend and the significance of the "hassle factor" drops a lot.

From the above list, I'd buy locally for the 8", probably buy locally for the 9.25" (but grumble), but for the 11" seriously consider the self-import option.

[wasyoungonce]

You're not finding the best deals in Australia. You need to do more homework.

CGEM 800 (I assume the HD version) for $3480, BTOW (http://btow.com.au/telescopes/celestron_telescopes/celestron_cgem_computerised_tele/celestron_cgem_800_hd_computerized_ telescope?cPath=474#getprice&utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc).

Couldn't be bothered looking for the rest...but suffice to say Homework gents.

Oh a CGEM 800 (non edge HD version) for $2999 from OZ scopes (http://www.ozscopes.com.au/celestron-cgem-800-computerized-telescope.html?utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc).

I know what you are saying and I have purchased plenty from OS but there are traps for the uninitiated. I remember a gent last year buying OS ...was advised not to but he went ahead...it all went bad he paid top dollars and ended up with junk.

OS suppliers are not supposed to sell scopes like Celestron & Meade to OS customers, although they can sell floor stock and opened boxes. These do come up occasionally.

Shipping from USA can be very high you need to use a good shipping company, add GST, insurance and customs handling fee's by companies like DHL, UPS.

Buying from OS...do your homework as well. Finally I must say prices have dropped in Australia and some Australian suppliers are almost decent ATM.

[Rod771]

I landed mine for $3300 less than the local price.

The local prices have dropped which is a good sign but they're still too high, making the shipping risk less of a concern.

I'm always happy to buy local but not when I feel like I"m being ripped.
Anyway ,the government still got their 10% :rolleyes:

[lazjen]

@wasyoungonce: Hmm, so there's quite some variation on the 8". I didn't catch that... That actually makes it quite reasonable and definitely a "no-brainer" to buy locally.

Using OZ Scopes as an example for the other 2: 9.25 is $5750 and the 11 is $7950.

So, it seems the retailers here do have the capacity to reduce the prices significantly, given the 8" prices you showed, however they're not doing it for the higher end models.

And I do not disagree with you at all regarding the need for good shipping company, etc - it's just one of the many "hassles" to manage.

@Rod771: $3300 less - even if it's only $2000 less now, it's still probably worth it

Edit: keep up with edits in other posts. :)

[martyn01]

Seen on quick sales they got he nexstar 8se for 1790 now anyone got a scope from them

[wasyoungonce]

No problem importing something from OS but do do the math and homework 1st.

There are many threads on this in this forum so a wealth of experience even for little things like "what's a good reputable OS shop"...I mean this matters! CN has a thread on a dealer that has gone bad but is still accepting orders that they never supply! I read of a similar thing in this forum not long ago as well.

Sometimes it pays to pay a little more for a reputable dealer.

I am not one of the "experienced & well informed OS buyers" of this forum! Sure I purchased some big ticket & costs items OS and these turned out fine...except for an UPS customs presentation fee on one item.

It's also cheaper to buy from China that USA!

In fact if it's cheaper to buy an item that was made in China, shipped to USA then transported to you....then something is wrong with our system of distribution. Probably "Volume"!

[martyn01]

I'm loving this site so many people so much info it's so grate when looking for a new scope thx to all for your help and info about everything

[Kal]

I recently bought a panasonic camera from Japan, brand new for $230 inclusing shipping to australia. Granted it was the 'japanese' model and teh menu is in japanese, but the same camera in australia with english menu's sells for $899. For the sake of $670 I was quite happy to forgo any warranty and the inconvenience of some illegible menu items.

If you have a family member / friend in the US, then feel free to screw the corporate fat dogs that want to rip us all off because we are a country with 'wealth to spare'. Have the item shipped to them, and have them send it over. I doubt you will find any US vendor willing to ship to oz as they aren't allowed. Considering you will be forgoing the warranty, the second hand value of the item will probably be below US$1000 anyway.

[Max Vondel]

Please consider the 10% GST as mentioned by Russ59
Local service etc
For a major investment........don't save $100...for what may cost you a lot more later

Regarding pricing......
A retailer can charge any amount unless specified by contract
You can sell anything at your price here on the astro classifieds!
So why not retailers at their price choice?

Some ppl seem to think that it is their (supplier) moral obligation
to sell everything as cheap as possible and become totally outraged
if they charge X more then the other guy
You folks should grow up and learn some basic commercial realities!
Besides ....... You always have the choice not to buy it

Plenty of ppl have listed price comparisons
And if you are clever about getting a bargain...shop till you find it
Why complain about pricing and so and so
If the local suppliers don't make any money...then they won't be around very long.
Then all our purchases would need to come from abroad.

After all, you are not shopping for a packet of crackers
The cheapest is not always the best

:P

[Terry B]

I bought my C11 OTA from a US shop when they has a special price. I had it sent to a US address which is an on freight company. They then sent it to me here in Oz. even with the GST and customs fees, I was $1500 better of than the cheapest Aust price( with the exception of the WA shop mentioned in another thread that is very unreliable ?fraudulent).
For an item like an OTA I was willing to risk the warrantee as I could almost buy a second scope for the price difference. It depends on the risk of the item being faulty. Electronics worry me more and I would probably be more likely to buy local for more risky items.
Terry

[JB80]

I am tempted to do the exact same thing here, it's no different in Europe and I could use that extra cash for the mount.
Although some dealers are becoming very competitive it is still not even close.

[LewisM]

I import from the USA all the time (NOT telescopes). I have the items sent to my friend in the US. He then sends to me. Since he was the initial consignee/recipient, the item is now SECOND HAND when it comes to me (and LEGALLY too), and can be declared for whatever value he sold or gifted it to me for. Have them include an invoice / bill of sale / stat dec. I believe saving a LOT voids any warranty value.

If you feel like pandering to the Government extortion, then go right ahead, pay your 10% GST/duty.

[2stroke]

Great thread please keep the comments coming guys, i believe in supporting local shops though when it comes to expensive gear, there is a huge amount of price gouging which can not be justified.

[lazjen]

Personally, I'd accept the GST - that part of the cost is not the extortion and is "normal" legal process.

Making the cost be close to double the US price is plain gouging and extortion - and that's not the government's doing, but it seems to be the distributor's action combined with manufacturer apathy, perhaps?

[wavelandscott]

I am all for affordable prices but what evidence has anyone demonstrated to support a claim of pricing gouging...there are inherent differences in prices yes but gouging?

Having now managed businesses in the USA and Australia I can tell you with certainty that the cost of running a business in Australia is substantially higher especially with respect to employee wages and benefits. Different cost structures will drive different end pricing.

I make no judgment in the above statement as to which country is "better" to have a business, work or live as an argument can successfully be made both ways.

I do however take issue at the implication that anyone in the Australian retail Astro Gear Supply business is getting rich from price gouging...

[Barrykgerdes]

Scott says it all

If you live in Australia the benefits of the wage structure and protections that allow you to earn a living are much more lucrative than in most other countries. These are all paid for by very high overheads especially in the retail market.

If no one supports the Australian retail industry eventually all the jobs will be lost and you won't even have the money to buy cheap overseas goods.

Yes there are a few places with what seem to be abnormally high mark ups but the reputable shops need to sell at the lowest possible prices to compete with each other.

In Regard to GST. That is how the government raises money. It is obvious and easy to calculate. Other countries raise money by taxes too and some of them are rather obnoxious when compared to our GST

Barry

[Nikolas]

A $2000 price differential for a celestron product is price gouging no ifs ands or buts. It's not the retailers but the importers/distributors who are reaping the benefits. Our dollar is above the US dollar.
If you notice the price differential with skywatcher products is similar globally but not so with Celestron.
I'll support retailers when they get into the importers/distributors ears about price gouging, until then I'll buy where my wallet allows me to.

[2stroke]

And that was my point a 2k difference is price gouging, $500 or so i can live with, but some of these pricing differences are just wrong.

[Rod771]

When I was in the market for a new scope, the first two local shops I went to did not stock Celestron, why? Because they couldn't sell them due price point and cited the distributor as reason why.

I even tried one of our online company's. At the time they didn't stock what I wanted, they could get it in however said that I'd be best importing.

[martyn01]

see even they say to import it so why dont they just import 10 of them and then sell them for an extra $100 each

[Larryp]

They'd need to charge a bit more than $100 each to be worthwhile.:)

[2stroke]

Theres no local warranty with grey imports so then if they rock up with issues or broken, the shop is stuck with them. They could freight them back to the states, but thats alot of money if they come in one by one with problems from customers. Maybe also if they import expensive scopes to save money the distributor for Australia won't allow them to purchase cheaper gear and scopes due to selling grey imports.

[martyn01]

its just so hard no matter what you do your stuck, we cant get them cheap if you get one sent in and it brakes its on you if my comes broke im going to send it back COD with a tracking # stuff them

[wavelandscott]

Or maybe it is Celestron who has a higher price to the Australian distributer...

If you are opposed to their pricing policy why buy a Celestron from anywhere?

It seems to me that buying a Celestron scope from overseas only hurts Australian based businesses...Celestron still makes a profit when you buy overseas...

I understand that we all want to pay "fair" price for goods and services but in this instance why support Celestron...

While I have never owned any of their gear, I assume there are more moderately priced local alternatives if budget is an issue...

[JB80]

Like Meade are any better with their pricing, why support Meade? It would be totally unfair to single out just the one manufacturer.
And yes, I think it is down to the manufacturers more so than anyone else. There wouldn't be a shipping embargo otherwise.

The main problem is that there aren't any moderately priced alternatives that can match up otherwise wouldn't we all have them?
They have the market cornered in certain areas and while the retailers in general do as best a job as they can in keeping the prices down is there any effort from the retailers being made to secure lower prices from the manufacturers?
Are they grouping together and saying we are losing business because of these high prices?
Are they calling for cheaper alternatives?

Maybe it needs to come from the dealers because neither Meade or Celestron care about the end users opinions but I'm not sure even they are interested in that. We are now getting UK dealers not even wanting to ship to the EU like they used to despite having no real reason not to beyond warranty and too much hard work. Oh well all the better for the Germans I suppose.

[raymo]

I think there are going to be a number of changes in the astro market
in coming months, what with Meade seemingly being in trouble, and
Celestron apparently being sold to the Chinese, and a plethora of new
equipment from Ioptron; and Skywatcher expanding their range rapidly.
The only problem is that if Meade should go down the gurgler, that
would leave Celestron as the only established mass producer of SCTs, which wouldn't be good for we consumers. Incidentally, in our rush
to complain about scope prices we seem to have to failed to notice
that prices have been falling for a long while. You can get a scope today
which only a few years ago would have been beyond many people's
wildest dreams. For example, a 10" dob for $599 delivered to your door,
or an 8" newt on an HEQ5 Pro Go To for $1599, also delivered.
I think we should be thankful for small mercies.
raymo

[JB80]

I'm not certain Meade will end up going under, hope not anyway.

I did find these though, seem to be rebadged Celestrons as best I can tell.
http://www.skywatcher-india.com/schmidt_csc279.htm

With Synta owning Celestron it's unlikely SW would ever release a cut price SCT, these are being priced at Celestron prices although I can't find any Asian dealers to give an RRP on, maybe others may know.

The way I see it is it's not so much about cheaper alternatives, although it would be nice and especially if they held their own optically, it's just fairer pricing. That's all.

[Draco]

Buying from US is cheaper but with lots of hassles. Buying locally is more expensive but you get local support and warranty.

Personally, I would not buy anything more than $AU500 without local warranty or support just because I dont want to spend my nights wondering how to fix that issue that has just cropped up on my investment or how I am just feeding a never ending abyss with money, repairing something that would be better off thrown out.

However, if I was travelling constantly to US or if I can get two units from US for the local price (all costs added), I would definetly buy from US.

Lately, Microsoft, Apple and Adobe have been pulled to the courts by the Govt, to explain why they charge so much more for software in Australia compared to what they do in US. Hopefully the same happens to other goods.. or if not then I truthful explanation (yea right!!) of the reason for the inflated costs would be nice

[Nikolas]

Are you deliberately missing the point?
You live in the STATES so don't see the blatant ripoffs we have our here.
If you did live here why move to the states?
Seriously dude money talks ripoffs walk and as I have said over and over it's NOT the retailers it's the importer/distributors who are the problem.

[2stroke]

Thats why there's newgroups and torrents haha, adobe really need to start non-commercial based licenses, because it won't being long before nearly every users is using a pirate copy. I really haven't seen much on the software front in terms of region pricing differences might have to look around.

[Draco]

Hi 2stroke

thought you might like a read of this story about how Adobe is overcharging us Ozzies

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/adobe-chief-dodges-questions-over-pricing-20130214-2eetr.html

[netwolf]

Sorry but I cant resist this one. Its like a moth to a flame.

If you want Warranty then there are still ways to get this with US purchases. One example is Priceusa (no affiliation with me) offer Shipping return insurance to help with exactly this type of situation. Other similar freight forwarding setups would no doubt offer similar solutions.

From what I know these scopes are made in China so I would assume the ship direct from China to Australia not via USA. But when comparing many people add Shipping costs on top of the USA price i dont think this is accurate as the US price would include shipping from China to USA.

So the only variation is 10% GST plus overhead of operating in Australia with smaller market vs USA. Still other manufactures like Takahahia, Vixen seem to offer there products in Australia at similar prices to that which are offered in USA. Recently recall a thread where someone had bought a Tak scope locally rather than from USA as the price was better.

Celestron 8" HD AUS 2500 USA 1300 diff of 1200
Celestron 11" HD AUS 5700 USA 3400 diff of 2300
Celestron 14" HD AUS 9000 USA 5800 diff of 3200

This is better than in the past but still high. I have raised this directly with Celestron and they have advised this is totally up to the local distributor. And they refuse to comment on this.

What I do find interesting is Synta/Skywatcher products seem to recently be more in line with US pricing. The AZ-EQ6 , 2299 USA and locally 2299. How is this possible?

Synta own Celestron and I would assume ship direct to Australia from China. And I would imagine an EQ6 mount weighs quiet a bit more than most of the afore mentioned OTA's.

Food for thought.

[JB80]

[QUOTE=netwolf;966787]Celestron and they have advised this is totally up to the local distributor. And they refuse to comment on this.
[QUOTE]

A familiar theme, not sure it is totally up to the distributor despite that that is the official line and seeing as both manufacturer or dealers choose to remain silent about the issue we can only assume it's these distributors who have us with our pants down and calling the shots.
Who are the distributors anyway, over here nobody wants to say?

I did a quick price compare after seeing yours and it's a similar story.

I looked at 2 UK shops for the C14HD and cheapest was £7000, that's $10,300AUD.
I suspect another retailer may stock them cheaper but they don't advertise the price.

The Germans seem the most reasonable as their C14HD come in just under $9000AUD.

I also looked at what will be one of the closest shops to me when we move to Spain and the price goes back up to $10,000AUD.

So we are left to believe that the product leaves the factory at exactly the same cost price as the US product and the distributors are making thousands per scope in some cases once it's off the ship just by doing a job that fed ex can do at a lot less cost. That is if you believe that story to begin with. Which I don't.
The European market is a huge market too so somebody is making a killing, I wonder how legal that all is here?

[lazjen]

Well, Celestron can rack up another lost sale. I was looking at the CGEM DX 1100 HD but the excessive US to AU price difference has basically put me off.

I'm going to get another setup where I can source it from local dealers instead, where the product's AU price is more "appropriate".

[netwolf]

Jarrod, and interestingly an AZ-EQ6 in UK is GBP1375 which is about 2000AUD.

As this is a Mount lets compare other similar sized OTA's.

GSO 8" f/8 RC AUD 799 rebadged ATRC 8" f/8 USA 895
GSO 12" f/8 RC AUD 3499 rebadged ATRC 12" f/8 USA 3995

Hmm cheaper in Australia. Shipped from China. The CF models are also similarly lower priced in Australia. Indeed the diffrence is as high as 300-400dollars cheaper on larger sized OTA's.

So what gives? Well the big difference i thin is that there is no one distributor for GSO and other Brands so more competition from local retailers. Which is better for consumers and retailers.

I am not sure who sets the price, even though Celestron say its up to distributor i am sure there is a guide provided by Celestron. So it is not necessarily the distributor. But with no competition its tough luck for us.