Takahashi TSA120 - My Thoughts

[Kunama]

After 2 weeks of clouds and rain (my penance for buying 4 telescopes in 4 months) the skies over Jindabyne finally cleared at 10.30pm last night for a couple of hours :thumbsup:

The Takahashi 120mm F7.5 Super Apochromat mounted on my Vixen GP-D2 and fitted with Vixen lanthanum eyepieces (3.5, 5, 6, 13, 17 & 20mm) via the William Optics 2" Dielectric Diagonal.

This refractor is quite simply superb !!! :eyepop:

Even with an almost full moon lighting up the sky, it did not matter which eyepiece I used, from the 20mm LV at 45x to the 3.5mm LVW at 257x, the views were crisp and colour free, the stars pinpoint.

Can't wait for the new moon.

Thanks to Graeme (Rigel003) I now have a Feathertouch Micro Retrofit Kit to install before tonight's viewing.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Taks RULE ! , my SKY90 does it as well every time I look thru her as well .
Fluorite ,, nice stuff . The best .
Yours is a lovely scope Matt .
Hope the skies clear so you can get a deicent go at her tonight .
Brian.

[Rigel003]

Looks great on that mount, Matt. You should be able to use 300x on close doubles on nights of excellent seeing.

..and don't talk it up too much. You'll make me start to feel regretful.

[Kunama]

I find that on Vixen mount the whole package is just the right weight to carry out without dismantling anything.

The only 'below par' aspect of the Tak has been the factory paint on the finder. It seems that they forgot the etch primer so the finishing coats are easily chipped and then will just lift off.

So yesterday I dismantled the finder, sanded it back to bare metal and etch primed it properly, then today 2 coats of enamel and baked it in the oven. (Hope my wife doesn't read this)

Optically the Tak 7x50 finder is excellent, sharpest I have ever seen.

[issdaol]

wow Having to sand back your new Tak Finder must have been disappointing.

Tak would have replaced it for you no problem.

I have not had any issues with mine or the Tak finder on my Mewlon 300 which is several years old now.

Glad you like the scope :-)

[LewisM]

You need to look through my Vixen FL102S one day Matt... simply superb viewing, CA free, pinpoint sharp, INKY black...bring it up to Buderim and we'll do some comparison tests.:thumbsup:

Strehl ratio on the FL102S is 0.97... not shabby :) :eyepop::thumbsup:

[Kunama]

Hi Phil, the finder was not new, I knew when I bought it that it had marks on it. I already had the paints so it was just a case of masking off well so no paint would get inside to mark the tube interior finish.

A friend who is a panelbeater is going to mix a bit of Tak white for me so I can get the colour just right. The paint method I use meant I can use the finder tonight.

[issdaol]

:-) I was going to ask about the source of Tak White Paint. Not that I need it now but is handy to know

I have a spare brand new Tak 7 x 50 finder sitting in the box still. Been too busy to put it up for sale :-)

[Kunama]

Hey Lewis, I will probably drive up there on ANZAC Day and will bring the Tak/GPD2 with me. I also just bought a Stellarvue F50W2 right angle finder which should be leaving OPTCorp about now.

[Rigel003]

The scratches on Tak finders are not uncommon, mostly inflicted by the metal tipped lock screws at the front end of the finder bracket. I agree about the quality of the finder optics though. The reticle is super fine and I like the small cutout in the field centre. I just ordered a new one to use with my AP scope. They're actually quite reasonably priced at the moment (for Takahashi gear, that is).

[LewisM]

Matt - try KillRust top coat Epoxy - gloss white of course. It matched my Fl102S precisely (I repainted an Orion miniguidescope and bracket to match the FL102S - a black scope on a classic white scope just was not kosher ;) )

I tried finding Vixen hammertone brown-green, but no go,so went with white instead for the bracket. I have an ORIGINAL brown-green bracket shoe coming from the USA though :)

[Kunama]

Phil you can get little bottles of matching paint from AEC the aussie Tak agents.
These finders are incredibly sharp, you should put it on a small Alt Az mount for the kids!

[Kunama]

Graeme, I used your trick after painting, I wrapped white PVC tape around the area of tube where the screw line up.

[issdaol]

I would love to hear about the comparison

I have read independent tests putting Tak TSA120 around .992 Strehl.

However given the difference in aperture the test would not be totally fair.

The TSA120 also has good internal tube baffling as well as non reflective coating in the tube. This can make a difference as well.

Although I must say my original Vixen Refractor (many years ago) was excellent.

[issdaol]

:-)
Might go well on the front of my Bow

[Kunama]

Etch Primed & Painted (PVC tape to stop further damage) The Tak Manual actually suggests the use of PVC tape. The paint is actually a bit too white, the Taka white being cream with a hint of green.
The RAL code is 9010 and the nearest paint to it is a Ford paint colour FM 8141 "Performance White"

[LewisM]

Here's an image I pinched from CN showing the testing of some classic refractors:

Just rechecked the Strehl figures for the FL102S - it's actually 0.974

[LewisM]

I must admit I LOVE the Tak finders - the Vixen finders are average at best (I have 1 spare OLD type if anyone needs one).

Phil, if you WANT to sell it, let me know first :)

[Kunama]

Feathertouch Micro Pinion Assembly installed today.

(Graeme, after quite a bit of fiddling about, I managed to get the tension and backlash just about perfect, :thanx: again for this beaut little freebie )

[LewisM]

Schweet!

[graham.hobart]

Matt, I have a TSA 120. Its a thing of beauty. I have a Tak FS 60 riding on it and I have the TCF-S focuser. I have it mounted on a CGEM which sometimes I get the impression on this forum that this is like a Faberge egg on a plywood Bunnings work top! ( I do have a G11 I am still learning to use and an EQ 6 missing, no further comments there required)
Seriously though I have loved this scope since buying it from IIS and have used no others, although that has not stopped me collecting a few "just in case"
Even my Meade series 5000 APO refractor with Moonlite focuser as been left in the study to read books.
I don't know about comparisons with other similar scopes. I know since owning it haven't used my two big reflectors (too big for my pod) or my other smaller refractors.
I knew as a child when we cleared my Grandpa's shed out and found Spitfire bits and WWII booty that I would be a collector/never throw anything away. Hence the excess of glass. But I can't see me selling my Taks.
Anyone ever heard of an erector prism for the Tak finder?

Cheers

Graham

[Kunama]

Hi Graham, I can understand your collecting habit, I was that way with cameras for along time, at one time I had in my collection the following:
Nikon F5, F4s, F100, F90s, F3, FM2, FA as well as Mamiya 645Pro, Mamiya RZ II 6x7 as well as lots of digital versions of the above. Today I have pared it down to just 3 Nikons and a Mamiya 645Pro.

You probably gathered from this thread that I am impressed with this scope. I could have saved a lot of mucking around by just buying it up front in October. Although the finder is optically excellent, it doesn't suit my arthritic neck so I just bought a Stellarvue F50W2 from Optcorp.

I think I will keep an eye out for a FS60CB as well. I can also see the T-Rex Alt-Az mount in my future.

[LewisM]

Hey Matt....PM sent re the now spare finder :)

[Kunama]

PM returned.

[Kunama]

I installed the Stellarvue F50W2 9x50 RACI Finder into the Takahashi finder bracket today, perfect fit. I will deal with the colour difference at a later date. Much easier to use than the straight through Tak Finder.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Engineering excellence my friend .
Nice .
Brian.

[FranckiM06]

I think you will be enjoye always with your refractor.
Franck

[issdaol]

I recently had the opportunity to put the TSA-120 Side-By-Side with several other scopes and use them all over a period of 2 hours.

Went to a small star party in Canberra and there was a gathering of 8-9 scope owners and a number of non owners some interested in buying future scopes and other just interested in the views, so approximately 20-30 people all up.

The evening itself was quite cold and there was a bit or cloud with reasonable clear patches. The location also was not the best being on the outskirts of town with some street lamps not too far away.

By chance I was setup near a CPC800 and a Bintel Dobsonian 8inch. The rest of the scopes were similar sized or smaller 6 inch dobs and one small Skywatcher refractor which looked to be 100mm.

Due to the cloud cover a lot of targets were not accessible so the group mainly focused on objects in the SE to SW portions of the sky. At several stages all of the scopes were focused on Saturn, Jewel Box, Antares, Canopus, ACrux.

Some of us used the opportunity to directly compare views while line up on the same targets. Without going into heaps of observation detail I and other observers found the clarity of views through the TSA120 across all of these targets much sharper with better defined colour and darker backgrounds. The owner of the 8inch Bintel literally ended up abandoning his scope and virtually commandeering our TSA!!!

For most of the rest of the night the TSA120 had a line-up of other owners and non owners wanting to check out the views.

The next best alternate views were through the CPC800 which performed reasonably well and IMO much better than the Bintel which surprised me as I was expecting the Bintel to be better or at least equal to the CPC.

To be fair the 8inch scopes were probably more affected by the adverse conditions but I still would have expected reasonable sharpness and colour reproduction. As an example the stars in the Jewel Box were were brilliant precise pinpoint stars with clear colour differentiation against a well contrasted black background in the TSA. In the Bintel they were mostly bluish grey blobs. The CPC was better on colour but still lacked the sharpness.

The quality of the TSA120 continues to amaze me.

[Larryp]

Welcome to the world of apochromatic refractors! Not just the Tak, but any high quality apo cannot be beaten, IMHO.

[LewisM]

As Laurie says, WELCOME TO OUR WORLD :)

The view I first got through my Vixen FL102s when I first got it and compared it to another ED refractor I had just simply could not be compared. Saturn looked decent in the ED refractor (a chinese brand), but when I looked with the FL102S, I was floored! From DISTINCT band division, to INCREDIBLE background inkiness.

And the Tak finders are BRILLIANT! I bought Matt's spare Tak finder - a scope in it's own right - and put it on my FL102S - a perfect combination.

[issdaol]

Thanks Gents.

The Vixen sounds like incredible Value considering all the positive reviews and comments I have seen. I remember my little old Vixen refractor circa 1982/83. It was better than a lot of the other refractors available at the time but certainly not an APO.

Surprisingly I did get a lot of mentions about the quality of the Finder Scope. I guess I have just gotten used to the Tak Finders as I have the Larger Tak Finder (11x70) on my Mewlon 300. and never really compared them with others.

I have a complete spare brand new TSA120 Finder (7x50), Bracket and Illuminator stashed away. I was originally going to sell it but have decided to hoard it for a bit longer.

[LewisM]

Phil,

FINDING an FL102S for sale is like winning the Lotto. They rarely come up, and when they do, I have seen some INSANE prices for them - one place was selling one for MORE than a new TSA!!! It is a shame Vixen stopped making them (around 2002 by all accounts I have read) and transitioned over to Chinese made re-branded ED glass refractors. I plan keeping my FL102S until I drop off the perch, but if I ever do buy another refractor, it'll be fluorite regardless - the benefits justify the extra cost, both visually and photographically (see Greg Bradley's images with his fluorite).

While my FL102S may not be by pure definition a total apochromat, it pretends to be at least, and I see NIL colour fringing with it. Absolutely zot, even at extreme magnification. Perfectly corrected, and with a Strehl of 0.985 (Vixen generic figure), or 0.992 (independent testing). I have an AD VIX branded one, which is Japanese internal market only, which apparently were hand-picked after testing for the FINEST optics possible.

There was only one thing I disliked with Takahashi, and that was the price for all the necessary attachments etc. Truly mind-boggling.

[UniPol]

I agonised whether to buy a TSA120 or FSQ-106ED recently as the TSA-120 could be fitted with the reducer/flattener and would be/is a great visual and imaging scope. I decided to go with the FSQ and have no regrets as it is one slick chunky little scope. I have a TOA-130 in any case which swayed me somewhat but it was a close call with the TSA.

[Kunama]

I wish I had been there Phil, the last time I attended a "StarParty" was in 1983, might be time again to join in the fun.
I really cannot fault the TSA120, it really is a great little scope.
I am currently in the early planning stages of building a 'Light Bucket' for myself but the TSA looks set to spend the rest of its life in my hands.

Yes it is a "compromise scope" in that it is not purpose built for imaging like the FSQ106 and also that it does not Hoover up every photon in the galaxy like an Obsession, but as a precision optic of high quality, sharp and well corrected views at an affordable price it certainly does not disappoint.

My ideal "Grunt and Go"

[issdaol]

That's a fantastic looking setup Matt :-)

My Mewlon 300 is my Photon Hoover. The views through that are as pristine as the TSA120 but with much better reach but unfortunately 5 times the weight and setup time. I had on occasion thought of a light bucket but to be honest was disappointed when comparing the refractor like views of the Mewlon 300 and the views through a friends 25 Inch Obsession.

The TOA130 is very nice but heavier and not as grab'n'go as the TSA120.

I have the TSA Extender ED but it does need the Microfocuser which IMO is the only downside which should really come standard.

[Logieberra]

Matt, well done. I know a AP was also on the cards for you. Love the Taks. Welcome to the fan club. My only gripe? Tak support. The Uncensored Tak Group on Yahoo is soooo pro-US support. Besides, Taks don't break :)

[issdaol]

Yep I have never had any Tak breaks :-)

[issdaol]

Also had the chance this week to attend a smaller Group Outing. Only 4 or 5 scopes and about 15 people. A mix of Dobs and I think another CPC800.

The Ioptron Mount played up with lots of clutch slippage so just resorted to full manual. My rusty memory for some common objects location was dusted off and thankfully worked reasonably saving me any real embarrassing moments :-)

Once again had excellent optical performance from the TSA120 and had a quick chance to check couple of other owners setups and again their optical performance did not match.

From memory the CPC800 at this event seemed very close in performance to the prior CPC800

[Logieberra]

Phil, I've got 3 local mates that are predominately visual guys (Grant, Dennis and Nick) that would love to attend your visual nights. Combo of Tak gear, dobs and C9.25. I'll bring the LX90. If you travel with the 300, we're there! Keep us posted :)

[issdaol]

Sounds good PM Sent

[Logieberra]

Nice. CDKphil and Baz Armstead may also be interested, though they are more pro-photographer/imager types :)

Matt, welcome to join us if ever visiting Cbr.

[Richard Gamble]

The TSA is a superb refractor indeed!
I was in a viewing night a couple of weeks ago and one of the mates brought one along.
There was no comparison.The view through it is the best among the scopes present!
A LS90 came a close second in term of viewing preference that night followed by a Fl102s.
A couple of dobs were left alone most times.
And there was no comparison between thr TSA anf the FL102s.
In term of sharpness, and contrast the TSA is the King!


A

[issdaol]

I just found a supplier that specializes in making APO Bino Scopes. Apparently they can supply full system or kit to modify 2 x Tak TOA130 or 2 x TSA120 scopes to make them into Bino Scopes with a mounting bracket as well.

Could you imagine TSA120 Bino Scopes :eyepop:

[issdaol]

Nice :)

Surprising that the LS90 beat the Vixen FL102s in terms of sharpness and contrast though :question:

[Kunama]

Sounds like the perfect visual system,
let me know when you have the brackets and I will bring the TSA to Canberra. :D:D:

[issdaol]

:thumbsup:

Your TSA120 might be a bit hard to take out of my brackets once its in there though :D