First light - Canon 6D @ ISO6400

[iceman]

I splurged and bought the 6D!

Finally picked it up on Wednesday after DDP were out of stock for over 4 weeks! They said it would only be a week or so - very disappointed when them. Usually they're good, not this time.

Woke up at Thursday morning to unexpected clear skies, so rushed outside with the camera after I found a charged battery and an SD card.

Yes, it takes the same battery as the 5D Mk 2 (thank goodness), but I was surprised to find it didn't take a CF - just an SD card.

I went through the menu quickly to set the quality to RAW and turn High ISO and Long exposure noise reduction off, but that's all I did.

The feel is much lighter than the 5D Mk 2 - no buttons to the left of, or underneath the LCD screen. Takes some getting used to. Zooming in on and scrolling around an image is a bit more annoying - they've combined the up/down/left/right control with the main dial on the back (one inside the other, with another button in the middle).

Anyway, I've got some other comparisons with high iso noise reduction on, long exposure noise reduction on, but I haven't got around to them yet. A quick preview in Lightroom shows literally no difference. Need to look deeper or try some other tests.

This was just a quick process of the ISO6400 image - I'm not overly happy with how it looks. Might need to revisit some of the processing routine for the 6D @ ISO6400, but it's definitely more sensitive at ISO6400 and there's about the same amount of noise as the 5D Mk 2 at ISO3200.

Topaz De-Noise really cleans it up, even at ISO6400.

30s exposure, f/2.8.

1. Processed, ISO6400. Large (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/372).
2. Unedited, just resized. ISO6400. Large (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/373).
3. Unedited, just resized. ISO3200. Large (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/366).

1:1 crops near Antares.

- ISO6400 1:1 crop (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/368) (unedited)
- ISO3200 1:1 crop (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/363) (unedited).

With noise reduction, they clean up great.

Full-size after Noise Reduction

- ISO6400 full image after noise reduction (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/369)
- ISO3200 full image after noise reduction (http://www.mikesalway.com.au/download/364)

Looking forward to doing some more testing with this new camera.

[colinmlegg]

It's pretty cool, Mike. Just did a 2 day shoot of Comet LEMMON with it. Amazing noise performance at iso 6400. I haven't quantified it yet, but it seems better than the 5D3.

Here's a 10 second exposure straight out of DPP (with DPP NR applied). 50mm, f/2.5, iso 6400.

[Octane]

Mike,

As Colin has done, try processing in Digital Photo Professional. The default NR for the ISO should do a decent enough job in that specific software.

D&D has gone to absolute rubbish. I ordered a Nikon lens for a fellow photographer which took 3 weeks to arrive. My 70-200mm took 4 weeks to arrive. They used to have items shipped in just three days. I have a feeling since the new owners have taken over, that they're running a JIT system rather than keeping inventory of expensive items. Time to look elsewhere.

H

[mbaddah]

Looks promising Mike! Can't wait to read about your progress with this cam compared to the 5d2.

[Logieberra]

Mike, welcome to the club! I love the wifi, no usb cable! I hope you run wifi 'N' at home, big files to move across. Wifi 'G' was too slow for me :)

[gregbradley]

Congrats on your new camera Mike. I think you have chosen very well.

ISO6400 is a very handy and these next gen cameras handle it well.

I find 4200K for white balance works well with my Nikon D800E. It may be close for the 6D as well but of course you'd need to experiment. Pehaps the images look a bit too warm that you are seeing?

5D2 images posted here often have a nice bluish look but that would also be a cool white balance temperature.

The 6D has one of the lowest read noises plus very large well depth which could mean retaining colour in stars in longer exposures at high ISO better than 5D2 can.

I wonder if it can do ISO12800 or is there no gain in that? I did a mosaic with the D800E at ISO12800 and whilst noisewise it was fine and it was brighter I did notice dynamic range was falling and damaging the image so I settled on ISO6400.

I look forward to a nice nightscape from you with this as we will be able to see clearly how well this camera works. I looked at one at a shop and I liked the way it felt. It has a nice feel to it.

Greg.

[Logieberra]

Be sure to download EOS Remote from the Google Play store. Free. Camera control (and image viewing) via wifi direct to your phone. Love it!

[iceman]

I think ISO6400 is the new 3200!
More light, same amount of noise as at 3200.



Yeh was very disappointed with their service this time.



At the moment I'm still using a card reader. I haven't gone through the settings to turn Wifi on etc yet :)




Thanks Greg, I think you're right about white balance. The other day I went to Forresters Beach for a morning shoot, and had the 5Dmk2 running as well (with a 24mm lens) and even on the back of the camera, the 5D images were much cooler.

Starting to get used to it after having a morning out with it - still not used to the preview/zoom buttons in a different spot, as well as no little thumb toggle for moving around. Even the on/off button is in a different spot.

The shutter sounds quieter than the 5D too.




I don't have an android phone. Is there an iPhone equivalent?

[MrB]

Seems every new body now has buttons and dials moved. Kinda annoying.
Took me a while to get used to the 60Da but now it's the 40D that feels weird when I pick it up.
Have been seriously thinking about the 6D as my first foray into fullframe, but while some items are the same as the 60Da (on/off, combined jog wheel/thumb toggle) the move of the menu and info buttons will have me subconsciously pressing preview/zoom, and where I'm used to the preview is now the delete button!

[iceman]

One of the most annoying button moves (so far) is the INFO button.

You used to be able to use the left thumb to preview and press info. Now, preview is on the right thumb and info is on the left thumb. So can't do it one-handed anymore.

[Octane]

You'll get used to it, trust me! The 5D Mark III is the same.

H

[colinmlegg]

I shot the asteroid at iso 8000 and the noise was still very well controlled. Also did some side by side comparisons with 6D vs 5D2. I'll post the RAW files later in the week.

[Phil Hart]

I got mine on Friday too ;)! (also from DDP) and was also shooting Comet Lemmon over the weekend. Great price for a full-frame camera and much lighter weight means it might even end up in an overnight pack more often. I'm also finding the button swap annoying but hopefully I'll get used to it.

Phil

[Logieberra]

Yup, iphone/ipod/ipad:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/eos-remote/id565839396?mt=8

[iceman]

Nice, can't wait to see them! Don't be long now, you hear :)




Can't wait to hear your experiences and comparisons.



Wow looks great, thanks.
A few good comments there, like no iPad version, no start/stop of movies but not bad.

I was intrigued by this 'feature':
"Remotely select AF point positions, adjust focus,"

How can it focus the lens?

[Octane]

You've never used EOS Utility to tether your camera and focus remotely before in Remote Live View? :)

EOS Utility is the best.

The mobile software is probably just making use of the APIs.

H

[colinmlegg]

I've uploaded some RAW files comparing 5D2 and 6D. Included is 1 5D2 file at ISO 3200 (our favourite setting ;) ) and 6D from 3200 -> 12800. All NR off and Colour Temp set to 4300.

Based on similar tests last year between 5D2 and 5D3 I concluded 5D3 was around 0.5 stops better at 3200 in terms of noise size and improved quality in terms of less red.

Looking at the attached RAWs, I'd say 6D is now 0.9 stops better at 3200, with similar quality improvement cw. 5D2 (less red).

Interested in other opinions.

http://www.yousendit.com/download/UW13c2ZDd0l0QTA5WThUQw

(file is ~ 195 Meg)

[ourkind]

Really interested in this thread, I'm leaning towards the 6D and would like to grab one before going overseas at the end of the year.

One feature I wish it had is the swivle LCD screen. Perhaps there is a good reason for it, but I find it really usefull and it saves me from bending down or trying to twist my neck in an awkward position. I mainly use the LCD at night to fine focus on stars. Otherwise it's the view finder during the day.

[MrB]

+1
Now I've used the 60Da for almost a year, I can't imagine not having this feature. It really is very handy.

[Octane]

The thing with swivel screens is that they are prone to breaking.

A full frame camera is typically considered a prosumer system that needs to be able to take a knock or two without falling to pieces. It's a build/weight compromise.

A camera with an articulating screen fully retracted falls to the ground and breaks the LCD if it manages to fall on the screen. A typical fixed LCD screen would likely survive; it might smash the cover, but, this can be replaced at minimal cost.

I, personally, hope they never introduce articulating screens on the full frame cameras.

H

[MrB]

Someone on IIS recently told about coming back to their rig and finding their 60Da screen had crashed with their mount while imaging and it survived the ordeal unscathed. Have you had a look at a 60D yet? The flip screen is surprisingly tough.


The 60D/Da's are listed on Canon's site (http://www.canon.com.au/For-You/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/60D) together with the 5D mkII, mkIII, 6D and 7D as 'Enthusiast', which I guess is 'Prosumer'?


Extended?
Retracted the screen is as flush as any normal body.... even better, as the scratchable cover is facing inside and protected.
Anyone clumsy enough to drop a $1500+ body probably deserves any damage caused :lol:



I personally hope they do, but hey, everyone is different.
For me the everyday advantage outweighs the extremely unlikely possibility that I will ever drop it, let alone on it's fully extended screen.

[rogerg]

hmm, I am torn on this camera.

I love the features of my 7D but would love the noise control of the 6D. Very hard to decide if the splash of cash is justified on the 6D.

Thanks for the images and discussion Mike.

[Octane]

Sorry, I meant fully retracted.

I have played with a 60Da. I still want one. Maybe after the 6D. :P

On that camera, the articulating screen makes perfect sense.

It comes down to the right tool for the job.

H

[rogerg]

Colin, out of interest for my own comparisons approx what was the ambient temperature when those shots were taken?

Thanks,
Roger.

[colinmlegg]

Somewhere between 15 and 20 C, Roger. It was almost cold enough to don the jumper.

[MrB]

Absolutely. For me the flip screen is the perfect tool.
I'm 6'5" and having to bend over or crouch down to look thru the viewfinder or view the screen when the camera is on a tripod, really starts to be a pain in the a.... back (and/or knees).
The flip-out screen for me is used all the time, not just for astro shots.
When I'm shooting lightning, the screen is out and angled up so I can stand comfortably upright and look down to it, so good!
Grahame may be able to attest to seeing me do it a few times.

I have also read (on dpreview from dodgy memory) of a tog that has a 60D to use the flip screen while shooting macro's at ground level, so not just useful for an astro cam ;)

Anyway, the 6D doesn't have it so pointless to discuss, but it would have been nice and a deal clincher point for me.

Edit: Was trying to find the thread about ground level macro's and found this as an option to flip screens :lol:
http://media.digitalcameraworld.com/files/2012/07/Photography_tips_NIK09.zone_2.pet_t ips05.jpg

[pluto]

There have certainly been times in the past when I've wished my 5DmkII had a flip screen but now days I just plug my phone or tablet in and use that as the screen. I generally use a 2 metre USB cable so I can comfortably position myself where ever I want around the camera and, if I'm using my phone, I can just chuck it in my pocket when I'm not looking at it. Plus the screens on my phone and tablet are much higher resolution than the screen on the back of the camera so I find it better for getting focus and reviewing images.
If you wanted real portability, or you have an iDevice, and you don't mind spending a bit of cash you could get that CamRanger WiFi thing.

[rogerg]

Interesting, how do you do this? android or iOS?

[pluto]

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep it short, pm me if you need more info.
I use Android. First you need to get a usb host adapter for your phone/tab, mine was about $8 but I've seen them cheaper.
Then I use an app called "DSLR Controller" which was about $8 also (I think).
This thread has a bit of related info: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=102619
For iOS (and Android) you can get that CamRanger device which looks pretty cool, but for $299, if you don't need wifi, you could buy an Android tab (like a Nexus 7) and the app and adapter and still have enough left over for a couple of cases of beer!

[trek1701]

Perfectly worded Simon


I’m 6”2” and I also find the flip screen useful for my beach shots at ground level.
Plus for planetary, I’ll lose the crop feature in movie mode.
It’s a difficult choice, get the benefits of full frame and lose two others.
It would be nice to keep both but I’m not prepared to double up on lenses.

Cheers Mark

[colinmlegg]

Mark, I think you'll still get the 1:1 pixel if you grab the 5x live view via Backyard EOS. 6D hasn't been tested for this yet, but I see no reason why it won't work like earlier full frames. Check this link -

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/EQ_TESTS/Canon_One_To_One_Pixel_Resolution.H TM

[colinmlegg]

The 6D also seems to have way less amp glow than my 5D2. A good thing!

[iceman]

Agree!

[trek1701]

Hi Colin

But not at quite the same frame rate

640 x 480 (SD): 30p (29.97) / 25p for the 6D

640 x 480 (SD) at 50/60fps for the 60D

Not to be confused with live view resolution


http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications


My understanding it’s a great feature only on the 550D, 60D & 60DA's



Cheers Mark

[colinmlegg]

Not sure Mark. The 5x live view capture happens on your PC and gets saved as an AVI. That's how the guy writing the article got this shot -

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/Planetary/Jupiter_20121017.HTM

[gregbradley]

6D has wifi and will show images on your iphone as I understand it. You can control it from an iphone remotely. Have a look at the digitalrev you tube review of the 6D.

This is a very handy feature of the 6D for astro and I think its superior to a flip screen as most phones screens are better quality than camera LCDs.

You can also get a similar thing for Nikon but its an accessory and costs $600. There is also the 3rd party camranger that works on both brands and as mentioned below is about $299.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

[QUOTE=rogerg;948641]hmm, I am torn on this camera.

I love the features of my 7D but would love the noise control of the 6D. Very hard to decide if the splash of cash is justified on the 6D."



Roger you may want to hold off for a tad longer as a 7D mark 2 is on the horizon and if the rumours are true it would be a pretty hot camera.

Per Canon CEO its the last pro DX body they will make as its all going to be full frame after this next 7D 2.

Greg.

[rogerg]

Interesting Greg.

Sure going to be hard sitting back watching these great 6D shots roll in, but there's upsides to the 7D. Going back to full frame would be nice but makes the 8-15L fisheye less versatile and means I need a new portrait lens. Love the 7D's buttons and features for nature photography. 7D2 sounds promising but I'd guess it's noise is never going to match up to a full-frame. :shrug:

[Octane]

Roger,

An 85mm f/1.8 USM lens (perfect portrait lens on a 35mm system) can be had for about $360 (if not less). A pittance compared to what we spend on gear.

It's also one of the sharpest non-L-series lenses available. As I've mentioned before, fashion magazine covers have been shot with that lens.

H

[rogerg]

Yes, well aware of your love for the lens and it's availability :) just an extra cost in the equation, and extra factor I need to convince my wife of :) There are bigger factors to consider I guess. Like the cost of the camera in the first place and what that means I can't buy instead :)